How to fit school days into Gov Larry Hogan's ridiculous policy on school start and stop dates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

I agree. Let's start by returning the start and end dates on the school calendar to local control.

[Anonymous]

Just for reference, this is how AACPS is proposing to handle it:

As recommended by a majority of the committee, the calendar calls for classes to begin on Tuesday, September 4, 2018, and end on Friday, June 14, 2019.

The calendar maintains adjustments made in the 2017-2018 school year that reduced Easter/Spring Break to three days. It also, requires opening of schools on three additional days to compensate for:

The fact that Yom Kippur falls on a weekday (Wednesday, September 19, 2018; it fell on the weekend in the current school year)
Election Day, which falls on November 6, 2018
The fact that June 15, 2019, is a Saturday, meaning schools must close no later than June 14, 2019



To compensate for these three days, the Calendar Committee is recommending the following adjustments:

- Elimination of second marking period Parent-Teacher Conference, leaving conferences in the first and third marking periods
- Opening schools for students on the day of the Maryland State Education Association convention (October 19, 2018)
- Reducing the number of inclement weather days from three to two, and designating the third inclement weather day as the day following Easter (requires MSDE waiver if needed)


The two inclement weather days may really bite them in the end, but the rest seems reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I read it 3 years ago and just read it again. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are only talking about substitute teachers. My wife is a teacher in MCPS who chooses not to get paid year round (just paychecks during the school year) and I can tell you for a fact that her paycheck over Thanksgiving week is not less than it is any other week. This is what it means to get paid for holidays. MCPS teachers (unit members) are salaried employees who get the same pay check each pay period whether that period includes a holiday, 1/2 day, professional day, personal day, sick day or not. If you are trying to use Union-Style semantics about the definition of the word "work", then I guess you got me. I am one of the 90% who work in the real (non-union) world.

So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

The other 20 days are the days that teacher don't work and ARE paid for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a part of this calculation. I'm sure it's just one idiot but it does teachers a disservice when they play this victim card ("we don't even get paid for Thanksgiving"). Being a teachers is one of the hardest most underappreciated jobs there is. You turn people against you by saying silly stuff like this.

Sorry folks, please read the actual contract. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving or any other days beyond the 195. They do get paid very well. They do have outstanding benefits. They are compensated very well in MCPS. There can be no question about that.

It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

That's a ridiculous way to count. Basically you have 195 regular work days and 20 paid holidays that are rolled into your salary. That's why your salary is divided by 215 and not 195. If it were truly unpaid, then your salary would be divided by 195 and you would received a prorated 9/10 salary for a 2 week pay period that included a day off. Your pay check would be less for any week that included one of those 20 days, but it isn't.

Your calculation is like someone who works a typical 260 work day salary and claiming their hourly rate is based on 250 days with 10 unpaid federal holidays. That's not how salaried individuals in any other industry calculate their pay, so it is disingenuous to try and claim that you have have a higher hourly rate computed for your salary with unpaid holidays.

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

Parental control? Im not even sure what that looks like, except a voting booth where you get to vote for BOE. And we're done here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just for reference, this is how AACPS is proposing to handle it:

As recommended by a majority of the committee, the calendar calls for classes to begin on Tuesday, September 4, 2018, and end on Friday, June 14, 2019.

The calendar maintains adjustments made in the 2017-2018 school year that reduced Easter/Spring Break to three days. It also, requires opening of schools on three additional days to compensate for:

The fact that Yom Kippur falls on a weekday (Wednesday, September 19, 2018; it fell on the weekend in the current school year)
Election Day, which falls on November 6, 2018
The fact that June 15, 2019, is a Saturday, meaning schools must close no later than June 14, 2019



To compensate for these three days, the Calendar Committee is recommending the following adjustments:

- Elimination of second marking period Parent-Teacher Conference, leaving conferences in the first and third marking periods
- Opening schools for students on the day of the Maryland State Education Association convention (October 19, 2018)
- Reducing the number of inclement weather days from three to two, and designating the third inclement weather day as the day following Easter (requires MSDE waiver if needed)


The two inclement weather days may really bite them in the end, but the rest seems reasonable.

They can't get a waiver to be off school a day mandated by LAW that schools be closed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just for reference, this is how AACPS is proposing to handle it:

As recommended by a majority of the committee, the calendar calls for classes to begin on Tuesday, September 4, 2018, and end on Friday, June 14, 2019.

The calendar maintains adjustments made in the 2017-2018 school year that reduced Easter/Spring Break to three days. It also, requires opening of schools on three additional days to compensate for:

The fact that Yom Kippur falls on a weekday (Wednesday, September 19, 2018; it fell on the weekend in the current school year)
Election Day, which falls on November 6, 2018
The fact that June 15, 2019, is a Saturday, meaning schools must close no later than June 14, 2019



To compensate for these three days, the Calendar Committee is recommending the following adjustments:

- Elimination of second marking period Parent-Teacher Conference, leaving conferences in the first and third marking periods
- Opening schools for students on the day of the Maryland State Education Association convention (October 19, 2018)
- Reducing the number of inclement weather days from three to two, and designating the third inclement weather day as the day following Easter (requires MSDE waiver if needed)


The two inclement weather days may really bite them in the end, but the rest seems reasonable.

They can't get a waiver to be off school a day mandated by LAW that schools be closed

Incorrect. You can for snow.
Howard County's first snow day is President's Day
Hogan said he would sign waivers for Easter Monday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

I agree. Let's start by returning the start and end dates on the school calendar to local control.

Heck no! MCPS was going to start on Aug 21st this year if the state didn't take over. And first week off for Eid, then off for Labor Day another week, then off for RH the next week and YK the week after that. That is almost a week off of school in the first month and cutting way into summer. Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school calendar is important to students, teachers, parents and MCPS.

If the calendar is not important to you, then don't respond to this thread.

You are so lame PP.
You need a hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school calendar is important to students, teachers, parents and MCPS.

If the calendar is not important to you, then don't respond to this thread.

You are so lame PP.
You need a hobby.

If you want the thread to die, why do you keep responding and bumping it up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

I agree. Let's start by returning the start and end dates on the school calendar to local control.

Heck no! MCPS was going to start on Aug 21st this year if the state didn't take over. And first week off for Eid, then off for Labor Day another week, then off for RH the next week and YK the week after that. That is almost a week off of school in the first month and cutting way into summer. Ridiculous.

So, actually, let's not return the schools to local control?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

I agree. Let's start by returning the start and end dates on the school calendar to local control.

Heck no! MCPS was going to start on Aug 21st this year if the state didn't take over. And first week off for Eid, then off for Labor Day another week, then off for RH the next week and YK the week after that. That is almost a week off of school in the first month and cutting way into summer. Ridiculous.

So, actually, let's not return the schools to local control?

Local as in city or city cluster control. The county is too big and too ineffective to run a school system. Consider when it snows in North county, school is closed the south county where there is no snow. Countless examples of waste, excess costs, inefficiencies and corruption. A school district should be limited in size to one or two high schools (with its feeders).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teachers are paid an annual salary, a very good one mind you, to do their job which is to satisfactorily teach our kids. Unions have destroyed this work ethic and have assembly lines the class room and turned teachers into little production units... units that pay the off the union handsomely. Yes many teachers are dedicated and get the job done but too many don’t. They simply aim to meet the minimal criteria established by the union. Of course on the administrative side, their sole job it seems is to not ensure our schools are well managed thus guaranteeing a good educational environment but making sure there is no friction jumping thru hoops and checking the boxes requisite for their 6 figure salary. Time to return the schools to local parental control. And most of these costly and education diminishing nonsense will go away. Cut out the mandated regulations, cut administrative/‘executive’ staff by two thirds, have more money avail to hire and pay well only the best teachers and still have plenty left over to provide needed relief to over burdened tax payers.

I agree. Let's start by returning the start and end dates on the school calendar to local control.

Heck no! MCPS was going to start on Aug 21st this year if the state didn't take over. And first week off for Eid, then off for Labor Day another week, then off for RH the next week and YK the week after that. That is almost a week off of school in the first month and cutting way into summer. Ridiculous.

So, actually, let's not return the schools to local control?

Local as in city or city cluster control. The county is too big and too ineffective to run a school system. Consider when it snows in North county, school is closed the south county where there is no snow. Countless examples of waste, excess costs, inefficiencies and corruption. A school district should be limited in size to one or two high schools (with its feeders).

Economy of scale is lost but economy of scale doesn’t ncessarily work in the government sector. Maybe for buying pencils but not managing policy, budgets and personnel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Heck no! MCPS was going to start on Aug 21st this year if the state didn't take over. And first week off for Eid, then off for Labor Day another week, then off for RH the next week and YK the week after that. That is almost a week off of school in the first month and cutting way into summer. Ridiculous.

So, actually, let's not return the schools to local control?

Local as in city or city cluster control. The county is too big and too ineffective to run a school system. Consider when it snows in North county, school is closed the south county where there is no snow. Countless examples of waste, excess costs, inefficiencies and corruption. A school district should be limited in size to one or two high schools (with its feeders).

But since we don't have that, the governor of the state should have control? If the county is already too big, then shouldn't the state be even more too big?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So, I think it depends on your definition of "getting paid". Teachers are paid for a 195 day work year. The salary gets divided by the number of week days between the first teacher day and the last teacher day, then divided by 8 to get an hourly rate. This hourly rate will fluctuate year by year, even if the salary changes based on the number of days between the first day and the last day. So.. you can decide are teachers paid for holidays, not really. The salary is based on 195 work days... it doesn't matter how many weeks you spread those 195 work days over. If there are more calendar weeks covered and more days "off" (not teacher work days) in using those 195 work days, the hourly rate goes down as does the bi-weekly pay check.

From the MCPS website:

"A 10-month teacher’s annual salary, divided by 215, results in the current gross daily rate of pay. For permanent teachers, the hourly rate of pay is computed by dividing the gross daily rate by 8 hours per day. The hourly rate is then multiplied by the number of hours scheduled biweekly to determine the biweekly gross pay before adjustments. Except for the first and last check, each paycheck will equal 10 times the gross daily rate of pay."

DP than the one you are conversing with above. Then change the description. The point is that you are salaried. The regular work year is 195 days. In the real world, salaries cover 260 days of work. However, those of us who are salaried, as opposed to hourly, work as needed. If you need to work on a Saturday or a holiday, you do. And you get paid the same. If you are an exempt worker (and teachers are exempt as opposed to support service workers who are often non-exempt) then you work as needed. An exempt worker's hourly rate does not change when they work 2-3 Saturdays a month, it is that there is unpaid overtime which is allowed for exempt workers by the FLSA (unpaid overtime is not allowed for non-exempt/hourly workers by FLSA).

I have a question. You stipulate that the regular work year is 195 hours and yet the daily rate of pay is the salary divided by 215. What are the other 20 days that are used to compute the daily work rate?

The other 20 or so days are the days teachers dont work and aren't paid for. These take place between the start of their work year and end. They uncle Thanksgiving break, winter and spring break, Jewish holidays, etc.

The other 20 days are the days that teacher don't work and ARE paid for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be a part of this calculation. I'm sure it's just one idiot but it does teachers a disservice when they play this victim card ("we don't even get paid for Thanksgiving"). Being a teachers is one of the hardest most underappreciated jobs there is. You turn people against you by saying silly stuff like this.

Sorry folks, please read the actual contract. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving or any other days beyond the 195. They do get paid very well. They do have outstanding benefits. They are compensated very well in MCPS. There can be no question about that.

It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

Here you go again. You continue to lose credibility with this union-babble. Unfortunately, you don't have the ability to see how ridiculous you sound. You obviously have not worked in a job outside of government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It is a strange method used. Teachers are paid a salary for the year. By contract that salary is based on days they work (195). There are no paid days (Thanksgiving for example). Those 195 days are what their salary is based on.

However, those 195 days are paid equally from start of their 1st work day to the last one. This year that's 215 days. Some years it's as many as 216 and some as little as 211. That's why once the full paychecks start each years they are consistent every two weeks. Their salary for 195 paid days is divided by 215 (this year 20 unpaid days). That keeps the checks even. it's why there is a common misperception that teachers are paid for days they are on vacation.

So that's anywhere from 16 to 21 days that teachers are off work and aren't paid for as part of their salary. Teachers don't get paid for Thanksgiving. They do get paid very well, with very generous benefits.

Now one could argue that those 15-21 unpaid days are really paid vacation days because the salaries are so high. That's an entirely different (and fair) argument, but not really what is being discussed here.

This is classic misdirection. That may be how the union wants to describe it. This allows them to advertise higher hourly salaries which is just a feel-good technique. The point is that there is NO other industry that uses this type of misdirection to describe payment. You are salaried and exempt. Your work period covers the first day of school to the last day of school plus any professional days that are included outside of the student school year. You are paid a salary that covers that time. You are paid evenly and that covers holidays. Your pay does not go down over holidays when you are not at school. What you are describing as unpaid holidays is just accounting legerdemain. As I pointed out, if everyone did that, then most people who work a standard 260 day schedule, would get to bump their hourly rate up by dividing their salary by 250 instead of 260 and claim that they are unpaid for 10 federal holidays. It doesn't work that way in any other industry.

Exempt employees hourly rates are for information only. Unless you have billable hours for some reason to another entity, your hourly rate is merely a convenience of accounting between you and your employer. Contractors or consultants who bill clients by the hour have an hourly rate. Professionals who bill customers by the hour use an hourly rate. In those situations, the employee does not have a standard exempt salary that is stable over time. Those individuals have paychecks that vary week to week by the amount of time that they bill. They do not record billable hours on holidays and their salaries and paychecks account for that. If they work on the day, they get paid, if they don't work on that day, they don't get paid and they're paychecks show that. Non-exempt employees don't get paid when they don't work. If they work on a regular holiday, they are supposed to get shift deferential and increased pay for hours worked on the holiday. If a teacher works on a holiday, their pay is not adjusted and they do not get shift deferential for hours worked. In fact they get no additional compensation if they work or do not work. That's part of being an exempt employee. And that is why you have a salary that is paid across a holiday that does not get lowered when you do not work on the day. And that is why you get paid holidays.