Why do you call it "spanking" when it is "hitting"?

[Anonymous]

Ladies, if you read OPs latest posts you will see that she is around a LOT of people who regularly hit, spank, beat with belts and smack their kids in the heads.

She runs with a really rough and low class crowd. That is why she can't understand logic or semantics or read and interpret studies.

Be kind to her.

She is coming from a very different reality than most people here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure that all of you spankers are 100% in control of your emotions and use other discipline methods in your home, that has not been true of the vast majority of people I have personally observed punishing their children by striking them. What I have seen, in public and among the people I grew up around, ranged between frustrated parents with few parenting skills hitting a child on the hand, head or bottom because the child was whining/crying/not listening/other infraction unrelated to safety and parents saying things like "When we get home, you'll choose a belt" to children who had committed more serious infractions. In all cases, the public spanking or public threat of private spanking was not immediately followed by the family leaving the public situation. Mostly they just stick around at the BBQ or wherever and the child's behavior does not actually change.

So while I suppose I can understand what you guys are saying about calm, rational spanks and only doing it in very serious circumstances, that has not been my observation of how this technique is used.

Those are all fair points. "Choose a belt"??? OMG. But surely you can see where selection bias is at play here.

I absolutely can, but I am also absolutely sure that I am not the only one who has had these experiences, which were common in the part of the country where I grew up. I can tell you from experience that the things many of you are saying about spanking being a punishment of last resort are not true for many people who spank. People who are pro-spanking should absolutely consider that their calm, rational spanks are not the only way that the technique is practiced, and that for some people, a hard line of non-violence is the only answer to that tension.

Of course it's not the only way that it's practiced. Nobody suggested that everyone does it the proper way. Why would that mean that nobody should ever spank? That is not a logical conclusion to to reach.

PP here. I think that logic works both ways. It is difficult for me to imagine how one teaches a child that it's not okay to hit and also use spanking to discipline that child, for example. If you want to calmly and lovingly strike your child to punish them for breaking a rule (however you define that), that is your parenting decision. It is not something that I would do, and if we were socializing and you did this in front of me, I would be a lot less interested in developing a closer friendship with you. I understand that a lot of people think that's overly judgmental, but everyone has things that they are not willing to compromise on. I'm sure that you have some as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure that all of you spankers are 100% in control of your emotions and use other discipline methods in your home, that has not been true of the vast majority of people I have personally observed punishing their children by striking them. What I have seen, in public and a

mong the people I grew up around, ranged between frustrated parents with few parenting skills hitting a child on the hand, head or bottom because the child was whining/crying/not listening/other infraction unrelated to safety and parents saying things like "When we get home, you'll choose a belt" to children who had committed more serious infractions. In all cases, the public spanking or public threat of private spanking was not immediately followed by the family leaving the public situation. Mostly they just stick around at the BBQ or wherever and the child's behavior does not actually change.

So while I suppose I can understand what you guys are saying about calm, rational spanks and only doing it in very serious circumstances, that has not been my observation of how this technique is used.

Where do you live that you see all these people spanking their kids? Your story sounds incredulous to me.

PP here. I'm not the OP, so sorry that you haven't convinced her. I grew up in the Midwest. The people I'm describing are families that we knew and socialized with when I was kid. Those kids have since gone on to use similar disciplinary techniques with their children, which I have observed pretty much every time I go home. I am also talking about a handful of incidents I've observed in this area: at Target, at the grocery store, etc.

I'm glad it sounds unbelievable to you. Fewer children experiencing those things, the better.

PP, if you knew these people as children, and you know them now as families, then you can see that, while it's not the way you parent, it doesn't permanently harm the children. It's not the way I parent, either, but I don't think it causes deep psychological trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ladies, if you read OPs latest posts you will see that she is around a LOT of people who regularly hit, spank, beat with belts and smack their kids in the heads.

She runs with a really rough and low class crowd. That is why she can't understand logic or semantics or read and interpret studies.

Be kind to her.

She is coming from a very different reality than most people here.

Hi. PP you're referring to. I'm NOT the OP of this thread. I actually thought she was needlessly confrontational and hand-wringy with the "innocent helpless child" and "OWN IT OWN IT OWN IT" rhetoric. But thanks for the insults based on my (actually civil) posts. I hope that you exercise more calmness and rationality in your spanking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure that all of you spankers are 100% in control of your emotions and use other discipline methods in your home, that has not been true of the vast majority of people I have personally observed punishing their children by striking them. What I have seen, in public and among the people I grew up around, ranged between frustrated parents with few parenting skills hitting a child on the hand, head or bottom because the child was whining/crying/not listening/other infraction unrelated to safety and parents saying things like "When we get home, you'll choose a belt" to children who had committed more serious infractions. In all cases, the public spanking or public threat of private spanking was not immediately followed by the family leaving the public situation. Mostly they just stick around at the BBQ or wherever and the child's behavior does not actually change.

So while I suppose I can understand what you guys are saying about calm, rational spanks and only doing it in very serious circumstances, that has not been my observation of how this technique is used.

Those are all fair points. "Choose a belt"??? OMG. But surely you can see where selection bias is at play here.

I absolutely can, but I am also absolutely sure that I am not the only one who has had these experiences, which were common in the part of the country where I grew up. I can tell you from experience that the things many of you are saying about spanking being a punishment of last resort are not true for many people who spank. People who are pro-spanking should absolutely consider that their calm, rational spanks are not the only way that the technique is practiced, and that for some people, a hard line of non-violence is the only answer to that tension.

Of course it's not the only way that it's practiced. Nobody suggested that everyone does it the proper way. Why would that mean that nobody should ever spank? That is not a logical conclusion to to reach.

PP here. I think that logic works both ways. It is difficult for me to imagine how one teaches a child that it's not okay to hit and also use spanking to discipline that child, for example. If you want to calmly and lovingly strike your child to punish them for breaking a rule (however you define that), that is your parenting decision. It is not something that I would do, and if we were socializing and you did this in front of me, I would be a lot less interested in developing a closer friendship with you. I understand that a lot of people think that's overly judgmental, but everyone has things that they are not willing to compromise on. I'm sure that you have some as well.

It may be difficult for you to imagine, but children understand a lot more than you apparently give them credit for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure that all of you spankers are 100% in control of your emotions and use other discipline methods in your home, that has not been true of the vast majority of people I have personally observed punishing their children by striking them. What I have seen, in public and a

mong the people I grew up around, ranged between frustrated parents with few parenting skills hitting a child on the hand, head or bottom because the child was whining/crying/not listening/other infraction unrelated to safety and parents saying things like "When we get home, you'll choose a belt" to children who had committed more serious infractions. In all cases, the public spanking or public threat of private spanking was not immediately followed by the family leaving the public situation. Mostly they just stick around at the BBQ or wherever and the child's behavior does not actually change.

So while I suppose I can understand what you guys are saying about calm, rational spanks and only doing it in very serious circumstances, that has not been my observation of how this technique is used.

Where do you live that you see all these people spanking their kids? Your story sounds incredulous to me.

PP here. I'm not the OP, so sorry that you haven't convinced her. I grew up in the Midwest. The people I'm describing are families that we knew and socialized with when I was kid. Those kids have since gone on to use similar disciplinary techniques with their children, which I have observed pretty much every time I go home. I am also talking about a handful of incidents I've observed in this area: at Target, at the grocery store, etc.

I'm glad it sounds unbelievable to you. Fewer children experiencing those things, the better.

Yeah, I grew up in the midwest. In fact, probably ten percent of my high school lived in trailer parks and similar type lower class environments.

What you are stating is an exception and not the norm, even for those areas.

The midwest is not some collective honey hoo boo land full of kids that beat their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm sure that all of you spankers are 100% in control of your emotions and use other discipline methods in your home, that has not been true of the vast majority of people I have personally observed punishing their children by striking them. What I have seen, in public and a

mong the people I grew up around, ranged between frustrated parents with few parenting skills hitting a child on the hand, head or bottom because the child was whining/crying/not listening/other infraction unrelated to safety and parents saying things like "When we get home, you'll choose a belt" to children who had committed more serious infractions. In all cases, the public spanking or public threat of private spanking was not immediately followed by the family leaving the public situation. Mostly they just stick around at the BBQ or wherever and the child's behavior does not actually change.

So while I suppose I can understand what you guys are saying about calm, rational spanks and only doing it in very serious circumstances, that has not been my observation of how this technique is used.

Where do you live that you see all these people spanking their kids? Your story sounds incredulous to me.

PP here. I'm not the OP, so sorry that you haven't convinced her. I grew up in the Midwest. The people I'm describing are families that we knew and socialized with when I was kid. Those kids have since gone on to use similar disciplinary techniques with their children, which I have observed pretty much every time I go home. I am also talking about a handful of incidents I've observed in this area: at Target, at the grocery store, etc.

I'm glad it sounds unbelievable to you. Fewer children experiencing those things, the better.

PP, if you knew these people as children, and you know them now as families, then you can see that, while it's not the way you parent, it doesn't permanently harm the children. It's not the way I parent, either, but I don't think it causes deep psychological trauma.

I actually think that it does cause lasting damage, particularly to the way that people parent. I'm not talking about the posters on this thread. I'm talking about people I actually know. Spanking is, to me, a huge discipline dodge. The people I'm thinking of do not have other discipline methods. They rely on this one, because it is "effective" in that the behavior stops pretty much immediately (though it does not seem to eliminate bad behavior entirely, since they are still spanking). With one girl I was friends with as a child, her younger brother basically didn't care about the spanking. It wasn't an effective strategy with him, but rather than try other ideas, his parents simply escalated the spanking to belts.

[Anonymous]

Some people are more flexible and adaptable than others, and some people do a better job at parenting than others. Parenting is the hardest job in the world.

There are studies that show that, in communities where everyone spanks, kids are not harmed psychologically by it but instead feel secure with proper boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just make sure to let people you meet know you are spanking your kids so I can tell you how disgusting that is and stay far away from you. Oh yes I know you wouldn't want to be my friend anyway blah blah...then own it. Be open and honest about your "parenting" ways. So middle ages...

it's easier that you start with your tiresome tirade every time you meet anyone (to your credit, you are probably already doing this) so that spankers and non-spankers alike can avoid you. jeez.

I would probably not forge a relationship with people who hit children and wouldn't want my kids going to their house, especially unsupervised. No hitting is a pretty easy concept for small kids to understand, but not when a grown up starts hitting little kids. Discipline without hitting takes a lot of consistency and hard work (which is probably why hitting is so attractive, it's a lazy form of discipline) and I don't want that upended by my kids seeing a grown up hit a child especially without me there.

Do you also not drink alcohol because it is hard to teach a child not to drink alcohol if an adult does it?

Drinking alcohol is something you do to yourself, hitting is something you do to another.

Apples/oranges.

[Anonymous]

PP - You don't like spanking as a punishment, and that's perfectly fine. But it shouldn't be difficult for you to grasp that other parents can spank their kids and still teach their kids "not to hit"*

*there's a qualifier here, because if you want to argue semantics, which this thread is about, then you don't actually teach them not to hit. You teach them to hit baseballs and tennis balls and pinatas. You might even teach them to hit each other in boxing and football.

Presumably, someone who is anti-spanking would also teach their kids not to steal, but that doesn't mean that she would not take away a favorite toy as a punishment. She would teach them to keep their word, and for punishment she might tell them that they can't go out for ice cream after all, due to their behavior. If you can reconcile these actions, which are based on legitimate authority, then you should be able to understand spanking. It's really not all that difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ladies, if you read OPs latest posts you will see that she is around a LOT of people who regularly hit, spank, beat with belts and smack their kids in the heads.

She runs with a really rough and low class crowd. That is why she can't understand logic or semantics or read and interpret studies.

Be kind to her.

She is coming from a very different reality than most people here.

I can absolutely assure you that not all people who spank are not a rough, low class crowd. That is completely out of line!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladies, if you read OPs latest posts you will see that she is around a LOT of people who regularly hit, spank, beat with belts and smack their kids in the heads.

She runs with a really rough and low class crowd. That is why she can't understand logic or semantics or read and interpret studies.

Be kind to her.

She is coming from a very different reality than most people here.

I can absolutely assure you that not all people who spank are not a rough, low class crowd. That is completely out of line!

NP. You're misunderstanding her sarcasm. She was just pointing out to the other poster that her associations with "spanking" were not the same thing that people here are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ladies, if you read OPs latest posts you will see that she is around a LOT of people who regularly hit, spank, beat with belts and smack their kids in the heads.

She runs with a really rough and low class crowd. That is why she can't understand logic or semantics or read and interpret studies.

Be kind to her.

She is coming from a very different reality than most people here.

I can absolutely assure you that not all people who spank are not a rough, low class crowd. That is completely out of line!

PP, that wasn't what the poster was saying at all. She was saying that I (not the OP, but the poster she's referring to) hang out with low class people and therefore I must be stupid. She's smarter than me, which is why she thinks it's okay to spank. While it's certainly true that I grew up in a tiny, crappy town filled with a lot of really terrible parenting examples, I also left that town 15 years ago and have lived here for 10 of them, where I have a professional job and an advanced degree. I go home to visit family about once a year and was reporting what I observe when I do that. Obviously this is 100% the same thing as being low class trash with no critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just make sure to let people you meet know you are spanking your kids so I can tell you how disgusting that is and stay far away from you. Oh yes I know you wouldn't want to be my friend anyway blah blah...then own it. Be open and honest about your "parenting" ways. So middle ages...

it's easier that you start with your tiresome tirade every time you meet anyone (to your credit, you are probably already doing this) so that spankers and non-spankers alike can avoid you. jeez.

I would probably not forge a relationship with people who hit children and wouldn't want my kids going to their house, especially unsupervised. No hitting is a pretty easy concept for small kids to understand, but not when a grown up starts hitting little kids. Discipline without hitting takes a lot of consistency and hard work (which is probably why hitting is so attractive, it's a lazy form of discipline) and I don't want that upended by my kids seeing a grown up hit a child especially without me there.

I have spanked my child. I have spanked my sister's children. I would not spank one of my child's friends visiting on a play date. My child has invited a child on a play date. The kid was never invited back. No need to worry your pretty little head, your unruly, unmanageable children will not be invited on a second visit.

The fact that you cannot manage children that you cannot hit is chilling, and speaks volumes about your inability to discipline effectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please just make sure to let people you meet know you are spanking your kids so I can tell you how disgusting that is and stay far away from you. Oh yes I know you wouldn't want to be my friend anyway blah blah...then own it. Be open and honest about your "parenting" ways. So middle ages...

it's easier that you start with your tiresome tirade every time you meet anyone (to your credit, you are probably already doing this) so that spankers and non-spankers alike can avoid you. jeez.

I would probably not forge a relationship with people who hit children and wouldn't want my kids going to their house, especially unsupervised. No hitting is a pretty easy concept for small kids to understand, but not when a grown up starts hitting little kids. Discipline without hitting takes a lot of consistency and hard work (which is probably why hitting is so attractive, it's a lazy form of discipline) and I don't want that upended by my kids seeing a grown up hit a child especially without me there.

I have spanked my child. I have spanked my sister's children. I would not spank one of my child's friends visiting on a play date. My child has invited a child on a play date. The kid was never invited back. No need to worry your pretty little head, your unruly, unmanageable children will not be invited on a second visit.

The fact that you cannot manage children that you cannot hit is chilling, and speaks volumes about your inability to discipline effectively.

It sounds like she has been disciplining effectively.