FCPS teacher salaries--pathetic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't they ever list a total salary for each teacher when talking about raises? One that includes benefits for health, pension, and other things that FCPS offers. The data is available. I think it makes for a better discussion. Many employees in other lines of work also have access to this information for their own jobs these days.

They do. It's in this report: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/wabe/2015.pdf

Ok, so rounded, the average salary is $102,000 for FCPS, $104,000 for Falls Church, $96,000 for Loudon, $108,000 for Arlington and $110,000 for Alexandra. FCPS pays several thousand more than other counties for health benefits. I don't see how FCPS's salaries are so out of line. What is the problem?

Teachers easily get 3 more months than most other professions, but even if they work so much harder that they only get 2 months off, that would be an annual salary of about $120,000. $120,000 is probably is less than what an actual teacher makes per year once you factor in tutoring that most of them seem to do. At what point is it enough? Is it really the money or the fact that the job is too much to handle because the expectations are too high for anyone to achieve?

I do not know a single teacher making the numbers you describe. From that link, page 8 says the average salary is $66k. You're quoting numbers almost double that.

Salary paid by the employer including benefits. The average amount paid by the employer to the employee. Not the salary of take home pay.

Okay, but shouldn't everyone eligible for health insurance (basically any full time employee) have their salary inflated by $20-30k then? The reality is that you can't pay rent with health benefits.

Well, by whatever the health benefits are. It's all a cost to the taxpayers. They could easily negotiate benefits for cash, at the same cost to the taxpayers. Benefits are not free you know.

And oh yeah, FCPS health insurance qualifies as a Cadillac plan under the ACA and starting next year will be subject to an excise tax of 40%. Will likely get delayed yet again till after the election but wait till it hits then!.

I think it's been proven you can't "easily negotiate" anything in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't they ever list a total salary for each teacher when talking about raises? One that includes benefits for health, pension, and other things that FCPS offers. The data is available. I think it makes for a better discussion. Many employees in other lines of work also have access to this information for their own jobs these days.

They do. It's in this report: http://www.fcps.edu/fs/budget/wabe/2015.pdf

Ok, so rounded, the average salary is $102,000 for FCPS, $104,000 for Falls Church, $96,000 for Loudon, $108,000 for Arlington and $110,000 for Alexandra. FCPS pays several thousand more than other counties for health benefits. I don't see how FCPS's salaries are so out of line. What is the problem?

Teachers easily get 3 more months than most other professions, but even if they work so much harder that they only get 2 months off, that would be an annual salary of about $120,000. $120,000 is probably is less than what an actual teacher makes per year once you factor in tutoring that most of them seem to do. At what point is it enough? Is it really the money or the fact that the job is too much to handle because the expectations are too high for anyone to achieve?

I do not know a single teacher making the numbers you describe. From that link, page 8 says the average salary is $66k. You're quoting numbers almost double that.

Salary paid by the employer including benefits. The average amount paid by the employer to the employee. Not the salary of take home pay.

Okay, but shouldn't everyone eligible for health insurance (basically any full time employee) have their salary inflated by $20-30k then? The reality is that you can't pay rent with health benefits.

I get a statement every quarter telling me how much the company is really paying me, not just my take home pay. When people look for jobs, they are comparing benefits as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A tax rate increase is inevitable unless we want to see the quality of our schools continue to decline.

Too bad there is no correlation whatsoever between what teachers are paid and the quality of the schools. NEXT.

Too bad you sound like a completely uninformed idiot. NEXT.

Inform yourself, idiot. NEXT.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/teacher_incentives_and_student_achievement_evidence_from_new_york_city_public_schools.pdf

Providing financial incentives for teachers to increase student performance is an increasingly popular education policy around the world. I find no evidence that teacher incentives increase student performance, attendance, or graduation, nor do I find any evidence that the incentives change student or teacher behavior. If anything, teacher incentives may decrease student achievement, especially in larger schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A tax rate increase is inevitable unless we want to see the quality of our schools continue to decline.

Too bad there is no correlation whatsoever between what teachers are paid and the quality of the schools. NEXT.

Too bad you sound like a completely uninformed idiot. NEXT.

Inform yourself, idiot. NEXT.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/teacher_incentives_and_student_achievement_evidence_from_new_york_city_public_schools.pdf

Providing financial incentives for teachers to increase student performance is an increasingly popular education policy around the world. I find no evidence that teacher incentives increase student performance, attendance, or graduation, nor do I find any evidence that the incentives change student or teacher behavior. If anything, teacher incentives may decrease student achievement, especially in larger schools.

We're talking about paying teachers at FCPS at a level commensurate with other schools in the area, not incentive increases for good teaching. You've got to get to acceptable base pay before incentives even come into play. So that clever bit of research really has little to do with this conversation. Your time might be better spent contemplating why you feel the teachers who teach kids in one of the highest income area's of the country deserve so little. As others have said, you get what you pay for... at my kid's high school we've already seen plenty of the good teachers leaving. I expect that will continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A tax rate increase is inevitable unless we want to see the quality of our schools continue to decline.

Too bad there is no correlation whatsoever between what teachers are paid and the quality of the schools. NEXT.

Too bad you sound like a completely uninformed idiot. NEXT.

Inform yourself, idiot. NEXT.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/teacher_incentives_and_student_achievement_evidence_from_new_york_city_public_schools.pdf

Providing financial incentives for teachers to increase student performance is an increasingly popular education policy around the world. I find no evidence that teacher incentives increase student performance, attendance, or graduation, nor do I find any evidence that the incentives change student or teacher behavior. If anything, teacher incentives may decrease student achievement, especially in larger schools.

We're talking about paying teachers at FCPS at a level commensurate with other schools in the area, not incentive increases for good teaching. You've got to get to acceptable base pay before incentives even come into play. So that clever bit of research really has little to do with this conversation. Your time might be better spent contemplating why you feel the teachers who teach kids in one of the highest income area's of the country deserve so little. As others have said, you get what you pay for... at my kid's high school we've already seen plenty of the good teachers leaving. I expect that will continue.

The thing is that it isn't one of the highest income areas of the country anymore. There are pockets that are, but there are also areas that are not wealthy at all.

[Anonymous]

We're talking about paying teachers at FCPS at a level commensurate with other schools in the area, not incentive increases for good teaching. You've got to get to acceptable base pay before incentives even come into play. So that clever bit of research really has little to do with this conversation. Your time might be better spent contemplating why you feel the teachers who teach kids in one of the highest income area's of the country deserve so little. As others have said, you get what you pay for... at my kid's high school we've already seen plenty of the good teachers leaving. I expect that will continue.

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

[Anonymous]

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

Yeah, but have you checked on the quality of those people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Screw you, teachers, you overpaid whiners. You have a secure, undemanding job and plenty of time off, so shut the hell up.

Hahaha! If that were really true then you would have more people who want to do it.

[Anonymous]

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

It is a problem. Guess which districts get the best teachers?

Hint: Given two jobs where one pays more, a person is more likely to take the one paying more. Unless the person is not very bright. The not so bright one gets to be a teacher in Fairfax. Good enough for the kids in Fairfax, right?

[Anonymous]

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

I've seen some of those resumes. I've interviewed some of those people. You would cringe. The best students ARE NOT going into teaching. It's not some kind of plum job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A tax rate increase is inevitable unless we want to see the quality of our schools continue to decline.

Too bad there is no correlation whatsoever between what teachers are paid and the quality of the schools. NEXT.

Too bad you sound like a completely uninformed idiot. NEXT.

Inform yourself, idiot. NEXT.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/teacher_incentives_and_student_achievement_evidence_from_new_york_city_public_schools.pdf

Providing financial incentives for teachers to increase student performance is an increasingly popular education policy around the world. I find no evidence that teacher incentives increase student performance, attendance, or graduation, nor do I find any evidence that the incentives change student or teacher behavior. If anything, teacher incentives may decrease student achievement, especially in larger schools.

We're talking about paying teachers at FCPS at a level commensurate with other schools in the area, not incentive increases for good teaching. You've got to get to acceptable base pay before incentives even come into play. So that clever bit of research really has little to do with this conversation. Your time might be better spent contemplating why you feel the teachers who teach kids in one of the highest income area's of the country deserve so little. As others have said, you get what you pay for... at my kid's high school we've already seen plenty of the good teachers leaving. I expect that will continue.

The thing is that it isn't one of the highest income areas of the country anymore. There are pockets that are, but there are also areas that are not wealthy at all.

Yes, there are pockets. But by and large NOVA is a wealthy area. And people generally are moving here for good jobs, which would put them in the better schools. Go back and look at the post on this thread that shows how much experienced FCPS teachers make compared to other school districts around here. It isn't pretty. And at a certain point people are not going to drive all the way to FCPS to teach here if they can't afford to live in the area. Why bother when they can stay in PG County, burn less gas and earn more money?

[Anonymous]

Well in a way, that would be helpful for the DC area to have more experienced teachers in PG county. The DC area is already so out of balance with development happening on only two of the four sides of the city. I'm sure money is an issue, but Arlington's housing is very pricey and their teacher pay is not that much stronger that people would be willing to drive there just for the money. I think Arlington draws many teachers because of the better working conditions than the extra $6000 they get a year in salary. When teachers write blogs about why they are leaving, they write about lack of support, lack of autonomy, too much testing at too high a level, curriculum not interesting, too many children in a class, classes with too high needs and no support. It's rarely about too few pay raises or if it is it's related to problems that they feel are out of their control where they feel they are getting paid little and expected to fix problems that are unfixable by one person. There are some teachers who would move just because of money, but most people go into teaching knowing it's not a highly paid profession like a lawyer or doctor. There are many many jobs in Fairfax that are not highly paid either, but those people also live in Fairfax, pay the taxes, and send their children to Fairfax schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

I've seen some of those resumes. I've interviewed some of those people. You would cringe. The best students ARE NOT going into teaching. It's not some kind of plum job.

From a different perspective, but supporting this point, about 50 percent of my kids' teachers have been mediocre or worse. That is a terrible stat. I'll use DC1, who is currently in 5th grade, as an example.

On the bad side, two of DC1's teachers were no longer teaching the year after DC1 had the misfortune of having them. By the end of the year, the parents were just happy to have the year over so their kids could move on to other teachers. Another teacher had just had a baby and spent much of the in class time on her computer, I assumed trying to get stuff done during the day so she wouldn't have to do them in the evening. DC mentioned that the teacher was on the computer a lot and left the kids to work by themselves. This was lower elementary, so kids working by themselves on a regular basis while the teacher was on the computer didn't seem appropriate. DH also witnessed this multiple times while volunteering in the classroom.

On the good side, there were two outstanding teachers whom DC loved and wished would move up to the next grade. Another one was very nice, and while the material taught in class seemed a bit repetitive of what was taught the year before, DC and I still really liked this teacher because the teacher's kindness and love of teaching were evident. DC still talks about how nice this teacher was and that he made the kids like school.

I think FCPS should be able to have a better batting average than 50 percent. I'm convinced the low teacher salaries have a lot to do with this. If you are bright with lots of potential, what is the incentive to pick a career where you can barely support yourself given the cost of living in this area? I come from the perspective that teaching should be one of the most respected professions in our society, and was lucky to have some good ones, so I'm disappointed my kids are having a very hit or miss experience as far as teacher quality goes. I'd gladly pay more in taxes if that would help increase salaries and help to attract better teachers. I feel like FCPS is on a downswing, but I'm not sure how to fix it given the growth in the number of kids, the lower tax base since the decrease in housing values, and the salary stagnation in the area due to the federal pay and hiring freezes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS teachers are being paid commensurate with others in the area. Maybe, it is not enough, but that is not the problem.

We have far more teachers desiring to teach in FCPS than we have positions.

I've seen some of those resumes. I've interviewed some of those people. You would cringe. The best students ARE NOT going into teaching. It's not some kind of plum job.

From a different perspective, but supporting this point, about 50 percent of my kids' teachers have been mediocre or worse. That is a terrible stat. I'll use DC1, who is currently in 5th grade, as an example.

On the bad side, two of DC1's teachers were no longer teaching the year after DC1 had the misfortune of having them. By the end of the year, the parents were just happy to have the year over so their kids could move on to other teachers. Another teacher had just had a baby and spent much of the in class time on her computer, I assumed trying to get stuff done during the day so she wouldn't have to do them in the evening. DC mentioned that the teacher was on the computer a lot and left the kids to work by themselves. This was lower elementary, so kids working by themselves on a regular basis while the teacher was on the computer didn't seem appropriate. DH also witnessed this multiple times while volunteering in the classroom.

On the good side, there were two outstanding teachers whom DC loved and wished would move up to the next grade. Another one was very nice, and while the material taught in class seemed a bit repetitive of what was taught the year before, DC and I still really liked this teacher because the teacher's kindness and love of teaching were evident. DC still talks about how nice this teacher was and that he made the kids like school.

I think FCPS should be able to have a better batting average than 50 percent. I'm convinced the low teacher salaries have a lot to do with this. If you are bright with lots of potential, what is the incentive to pick a career where you can barely support yourself given the cost of living in this area? I come from the perspective that teaching should be one of the most respected professions in our society, and was lucky to have some good ones, so I'm disappointed my kids are having a very hit or miss experience as far as teacher quality goes. I'd gladly pay more in taxes if that would help increase salaries and help to attract better teachers. I feel like FCPS is on a downswing, but I'm not sure how to fix it given the growth in the number of kids, the lower tax base since the decrease in housing values, and the salary stagnation in the area due to the federal pay and hiring freezes.

I feel bad for the good teachers that aren't given a good working environment to work in. I'd rather support a good working environment that hopefully would attract people just as much as an increase in salary.

[Anonymous]

Also, once the working conditions are reasonable, it will be easier to pick out the good teachers from the bad. Some will be very successful and others not and the bad ones will have nothing to fall back on for why they couldn't do a good job.