If I had been a Holocaust survivor, I would want an Israel too, but

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was Palestine selected?

Because Israel is and always has been the Jewish homeland. In his history, other than being under the Ottoman and Roman empires, Israel was governed by Jews. Jews have a far longer history in Israel than any other nation.

Yes, perhaps the Semitic and Palestinian Jews. Not the German, Poland, russian, etc Jews. The ones that currently dominate and control Israel.

I believe that Jews have a legitimate interest in Israel, but the argument that Jews have a longer history in Israel is a losing one. Everyone knows that the Jews displaced other Arabs, the Torah says so. And Jews have maintained a very small presence in Israel over most of the last two millennia. In 1900 Jews in Palestine comprised only 8% of Palestine, and a mere 43,000 out of 11.2 million Jews worldwide, a third of a percent. During this time Palestinians have always been present, and anyone wishing to challenge that would have to explain how Palestinians and Jews managed to be so genetically similar if they had not lived together prior to the diaspora.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why was Palestine selected?

Because, hello, Jerusalem?

Ok but these were European Jews and that's where the atrocities occurred. I recall hearing of individual cases where survivors tried to go back to their homes only to find them occupied by someone else, but did this happen at the country level too? Why wasn't Israel carved out in europe instead? its not like Germany was in a great bargaining position at that point.

I am Jewish. My guess? The Europeans didn't want a Jewish state in Europe. And frankly, if you were a Jewish Holocaust survivor - would YOU want to stay in Europe after your friends and neighbors turned on you? Some did, certainly, but a large majority did not. Not surprising.

The Brits and Americans could have "mandated" it, the same way they felt entitled to do so with Palestine.
Germany was in no shape to protest. Did Jews expect a rosier relationship with Palestinians? They should have stuck it out with the enemy they knew.

[Anonymous]

he Jewish people are not a race, they are a group of mostly eastern Europeans , who moved to Palestine years ago, practicing a religion called Judaism.

There are many more people around the world who practice this religion and they are content to live away from Palestine, while still supporting the right of the Nation of Israel to exist.

They are wrong to demand this right because they can practice their religion anywhere in the world as many of them do, they do not need a "Homeland" to be Jewish, as I do not need a homeland to be Christian.

Should all Catholics move to the Vatican City and form an army and demand that the U.S.A. give them $ 5 billion a year to buy weapons of mass destruction, and drive Italian citizens out of Rome?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:he Jewish people are not a race, they are a group of mostly eastern Europeans , who moved to Palestine years ago, practicing a religion called Judaism.

There are many more people around the world who practice this religion and they are content to live away from Palestine, while still supporting the right of the Nation of Israel to exist.

They are wrong to demand this right because they can practice their religion anywhere in the world as many of them do, they do not need a "Homeland" to be Jewish, as I do not need a homeland to be Christian.

Should all Catholics move to the Vatican City and form an army and demand that the U.S.A. give them $ 5 billion a year to buy weapons of mass destruction, and drive Italian citizens out of Rome?

This post is so full of ignorance that I am not sure where to start. Should I start with the percent of the world population of Jews vs Christians? Or for how long Jews have been persecuted through ejections or mass killings? Or how about the history absolute repression of the Jewish religion in so many parts of the world? And hey, not sure where I have seen the argument that Jewish people constitute a race and that race must predicate the formation of a nation???

Pp, you really need to educate yourself regarding basic history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:he Jewish people are not a race, they are a group of mostly eastern Europeans , who moved to Palestine years ago, practicing a religion called Judaism.

There are many more people around the world who practice this religion and they are content to live away from Palestine, while still supporting the right of the Nation of Israel to exist.

They are wrong to demand this right because they can practice their religion anywhere in the world as many of them do, they do not need a "Homeland" to be Jewish, as I do not need a homeland to be Christian.

Should all Catholics move to the Vatican City and form an army and demand that the U.S.A. give them $ 5 billion a year to buy weapons of mass destruction, and drive Italian citizens out of Rome?

This post is so full of ignorance that I am not sure where to start. Should I start with the percent of the world population of Jews vs Christians? Or for how long Jews have been persecuted through ejections or mass killings? Or how about the history absolute repression of the Jewish religion in so many parts of the world? And hey, not sure where I have seen the argument that Jewish people constitute a race and that race must predicate the formation of a nation???

Pp, you really need to educate yourself regarding basic history.

So because of the percent of jews vs christians they need a holy land? Give me a freaking break. Everybody has been persecuted throughout history, so your comment makes no sense. You dont go around the world stealing people's land because somewhat God gave you that land thousands of years ago, that is barbaric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:he Jewish people are not a race, they are a group of mostly eastern Europeans , who moved to Palestine years ago, practicing a religion called Judaism.

There are many more people around the world who practice this religion and they are content to live away from Palestine, while still supporting the right of the Nation of Israel to exist.

They are wrong to demand this right because they can practice their religion anywhere in the world as many of them do, they do not need a "Homeland" to be Jewish, as I do not need a homeland to be Christian.

Should all Catholics move to the Vatican City and form an army and demand that the U.S.A. give them $ 5 billion a year to buy weapons of mass destruction, and drive Italian citizens out of Rome?

This post is so full of ignorance that I am not sure where to start. Should I start with the percent of the world population of Jews vs Christians? Or for how long Jews have been persecuted through ejections or mass killings? Or how about the history absolute repression of the Jewish religion in so many parts of the world? And hey, not sure where I have seen the argument that Jewish people constitute a race and that race must predicate the formation of a nation???

Pp, you really need to educate yourself regarding basic history.

Jews are not a race. And fun fact: they are most genetically similar to palestinians.

[Anonymous]

What history is telling us is that ejections of Jews from their homes did not justify the ejection of Palestinians from theirs, no matter how often the Jews try to claim a God-given right to that land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What history is telling us is that ejections of Jews from their homes did not justify the ejection of Palestinians from theirs, no matter how often the Jews try to claim a God-given right to that land.

Exactly.
I knew this when I was 10, I just don't get why diplomats took so long to catch on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Arabs had a country in1948 and decided to wage war on Israel. Had they lived in peace with Israel when they had their Palestine, there would not be the problem we face today. The Arabs had Palestine and gave it up due to their greed.

Check on old map - the WHOLE country was Palestine. Israel did not exist until after WWII. It did not exist until we made it so.

So, then should we give a country to the African Americans in the US because they were slaves? You know, maybe kick everybody out of Cameroon and give it to them (if they'd want it, probably not)? Isn't west africa the homeland for a lot of African Americans, so it's like theirs anyway? I mean come on - this line of thinking is really freaking absurd. I cannot think of anyplace other than the US itself where people came and just kicked the indigenous people the hell out (like we did to the native americans, and then gave them a few scraps/reservations). By force.

Do you seriously not understand that that is how countries are formed? Like, all over the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was Palestine selected?

Because Israel is and always has been the Jewish homeland. In his history, other than being under the Ottoman and Roman empires, Israel was governed by Jews. Jews have a far longer history in Israel than any other nation.

Um, the Chrokee have a longer history here.
Also, Palestinian DNA goes right back to that land along with the male Jewish lineage.
Jews are very much mixed with people from other lands, like Italy, Poland, Yemen, Algeria.

The Jews who were in that area originally are the ancestors of Sephardic Jews. Most European Jews are Ashkenasi Jews. In any event, a lot of people believe that the bible states that that area is meant for the Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Arabs had a country in1948 and decided to wage war on Israel. Had they lived in peace with Israel when they had their Palestine, there would not be the problem we face today. The Arabs had Palestine and gave it up due to their greed.

Check on old map - the WHOLE country was Palestine. Israel did not exist until after WWII. It did not exist until we made it so.

So, then should we give a country to the African Americans in the US because they were slaves? You know, maybe kick everybody out of Cameroon and give it to them (if they'd want it, probably not)? Isn't west africa the homeland for a lot of African Americans, so it's like theirs anyway? I mean come on - this line of thinking is really freaking absurd. I cannot think of anyplace other than the US itself where people came and just kicked the indigenous people the hell out (like we did to the native americans, and then gave them a few scraps/reservations). By force.

Do you seriously not understand that that is how countries are formed? Like, all over the world?

Really? in the 21st century this is how countries are formed??? I thought we were out of the stone age and barbaric era, silly me!!!!!! I guess the Geneva convention and International Law that the MODERN world has doesn't mean anything. Who knew????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was Palestine selected?

Because Israel is and always has been the Jewish homeland. In his history, other than being under the Ottoman and Roman empires, Israel was governed by Jews. Jews have a far longer history in Israel than any other nation.

Um, the Chrokee have a longer history here.
Also, Palestinian DNA goes right back to that land along with the male Jewish lineage.
Jews are very much mixed with people from other lands, like Italy, Poland, Yemen, Algeria.

The Jews who were in that area originally are the ancestors of Sephardic Jews. Most European Jews are Ashkenasi Jews. In any event, a lot of people believe that the bible states that that area is meant for the Jews.

So now we base real estate according to the bible? The bible is the deciding voice of who gets to own what land

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Arabs had a country in1948 and decided to wage war on Israel. Had they lived in peace with Israel when they had their Palestine, there would not be the problem we face today. The Arabs had Palestine and gave it up due to their greed.

Check on old map - the WHOLE country was Palestine. Israel did not exist until after WWII. It did not exist until we made it so.

So, then should we give a country to the African Americans in the US because they were slaves? You know, maybe kick everybody out of Cameroon and give it to them (if they'd want it, probably not)? Isn't west africa the homeland for a lot of African Americans, so it's like theirs anyway? I mean come on - this line of thinking is really freaking absurd. I cannot think of anyplace other than the US itself where people came and just kicked the indigenous people the hell out (like we did to the native americans, and then gave them a few scraps/reservations). By force.

Do you seriously not understand that that is how countries are formed? Like, all over the world?

Really? in the 21st century this is how countries are formed??? I thought we were out of the stone age and barbaric era, silly me!!!!!! I guess the Geneva convention and International Law that the MODERN world has doesn't mean anything. Who knew????

Yes, take a look at history. Modern history. Things change. Read below but be careful, there's so much change it might make you seasick.

"The British pulled out of India in 1947, leaving behind two new countries of India and Pakistan. Burma, Sri Lanka and Malaysia followed the road of independence not long after. The Dutch fought a losing war but finally conceded independence to Indonesia, the former Dutch East Indies, in 1949. France tried to regain its colonies in Indochina but was forced out in 1954 after a humiliating defeat at the hands of Vietnamese forces. The Europeans' African empires crumbled in the 1950s and early 1960s. The United Nations grew from 51 nations in 1945 to 189 by the end of the century.

Because of the cold war, there was no comprehensive peace settlement after the second world war as there had been in 1919. Instead there were a number of separate agreements or ad hoc decisions. In Europe most of the borders that had been established at the end of the first world war were restored.

The Soviet Union seized back some bits of territory such as Bessarabia, which it had lost to Romania in 1919. The one major exception was Poland, as the joke had it "a country on wheels", which moved some 200 miles to the west, losing some 69,000 sq metres to the Soviet Union and gaining slightly less from Germany in the west. In the east, Japan of course lost the conquests it had made since 1931, but was also obliged to disgorge Korea and Formosa (now Taiwan) and the Pacific islands that it had gained decades earlier. Eventually the United States and Japan concluded a formal peace in 1951. Because of an outstanding dispute over some islands, the Soviet Union and its successor Russia have not yet signed a peace treaty ending the war with Japan."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/second-world-war-rebuilding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Arabs had a country in1948 and decided to wage war on Israel. Had they lived in peace with Israel when they had their Palestine, there would not be the problem we face today. The Arabs had Palestine and gave it up due to their greed.

Check on old map - the WHOLE country was Palestine. Israel did not exist until after WWII. It did not exist until we made it so.

So, then should we give a country to the African Americans in the US because they were slaves? You know, maybe kick everybody out of Cameroon and give it to them (if they'd want it, probably not)? Isn't west africa the homeland for a lot of African Americans, so it's like theirs anyway? I mean come on - this line of thinking is really freaking absurd. I cannot think of anyplace other than the US itself where people came and just kicked the indigenous people the hell out (like we did to the native americans, and then gave them a few scraps/reservations). By force.

Do you seriously not understand that that is how countries are formed? Like, all over the world?

Really? in the 21st century this is how countries are formed??? I thought we were out of the stone age and barbaric era, silly me!!!!!! I guess the Geneva convention and International Law that the MODERN world has doesn't mean anything. Who knew????

Yes, take a look at history. Modern history. Things change. Read below but be careful, there's so much change it might make you seasick.

"The British pulled out of India in 1947, leaving behind two new countries of India and Pakistan. Burma, Sri Lanka and Malaysia followed the road of independence not long after. The Dutch fought a losing war but finally conceded independence to Indonesia, the former Dutch East Indies, in 1949. France tried to regain its colonies in Indochina but was forced out in 1954 after a humiliating defeat at the hands of Vietnamese forces. The Europeans' African empires crumbled in the 1950s and early 1960s. The United Nations grew from 51 nations in 1945 to 189 by the end of the century.

Because of the cold war, there was no comprehensive peace settlement after the second world war as there had been in 1919. Instead there were a number of separate agreements or ad hoc decisions. In Europe most of the borders that had been established at the end of the first world war were restored.

The Soviet Union seized back some bits of territory such as Bessarabia, which it had lost to Romania in 1919. The one major exception was Poland, as the joke had it "a country on wheels", which moved some 200 miles to the west, losing some 69,000 sq metres to the Soviet Union and gaining slightly less from Germany in the west. In the east, Japan of course lost the conquests it had made since 1931, but was also obliged to disgorge Korea and Formosa (now Taiwan) and the Pacific islands that it had gained decades earlier. Eventually the United States and Japan concluded a formal peace in 1951. Because of an outstanding dispute over some islands, the Soviet Union and its successor Russia have not yet signed a peace treaty ending the war with Japan."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/second-world-war-rebuilding

These examples aren't helping your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was Palestine selected?

Because Israel is and always has been the Jewish homeland. In his history, other than being under the Ottoman and Roman empires, Israel was governed by Jews. Jews have a far longer history in Israel than any other nation.

Um, the Chrokee have a longer history here.
Also, Palestinian DNA goes right back to that land along with the male Jewish lineage.
Jews are very much mixed with people from other lands, like Italy, Poland, Yemen, Algeria.

The Jews who were in that area originally are the ancestors of Sephardic Jews. Most European Jews are Ashkenasi Jews. In any event, a lot of people believe that the bible states that that area is meant for the Jews.

So now we base real estate according to the bible? The bible is the deciding voice of who gets to own what land

I didn't say we should base anything on the bible -- I said many people believe the Bible states that that land is meant for the Jews. That is what many people believe -- not that it makes it so.