What Schools are Considered 2T?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid had the on-site Friends writing sample. We were turned off as it was sprung on him. The concept actually was nice - I believe he was asked to write about something he hadn't gotten to talk about during the interview, which is helpful (or difficult if you have nothing to say). Ironically he wrote about something that we spent most of the parent interview discussing. We generally found their admissions people to be distant and cold, and this was particularly notable after we were accepted and it was just kind of blah.

This is an interesting point about the admission people - we were not really pleased with the Spence admissions people nor did they really do a good job telling us about the schools strengths. The other option that we felt did a much better job was Nightingale They were warm, friendly and did a great job telling us about the school.

We didn't even bother to send a letter to Spence but did send a letter to (not FC) N. Got into both (rejected at Chapin). However, once we got into Spence they turned 180 and were so forthcoming and helpful. However, it actually wasn't as easy decision since we liked N very much. We did have a heart to heart with a family who went there and they did tell us about some of the negatives. We ended up picking Spence and have been happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had the on-site Friends writing sample. We were turned off as it was sprung on him. The concept actually was nice - I believe he was asked to write about something he hadn't gotten to talk about during the interview, which is helpful (or difficult if you have nothing to say). Ironically he wrote about something that we spent most of the parent interview discussing. We generally found their admissions people to be distant and cold, and this was particularly notable after we were accepted and it was just kind of blah.

This is an interesting point about the admission people - we were not really pleased with the Spence admissions people nor did they really do a good job telling us about the schools strengths. The other option that we felt did a much better job was Nightingale They were warm, friendly and did a great job telling us about the school.

We didn't even bother to send a letter to Spence but did send a letter to (not FC) N. Got into both (rejected at Chapin). However, once we got into Spence they turned 180 and were so forthcoming and helpful. However, it actually wasn't as easy decision since we liked N very much. We did have a heart to heart with a family who went there and they did tell us about some of the negatives. We ended up picking Spence and have been happy.

Curious what the negatives were at N? So hard to differentiate between S/C/N that every nuance is interesting to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marymount and CSH are Tier 2. Nightingale is t3

Sounds like we have a Marymount parent here. Nightingale is T2 and Marymount is T3/T4.

I agreed, i feel Nightingale is T2 and CSH/Marymount is T3. My kid is not in any of the schools but just from reputation perspective and I heard N 's college placement is strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

not sure I agree with you regarding the customer comments. I actually think that folks in the position to make large donations would want some accountability.

There is a fair bit of administrative overhead. They don't need 250 people to teach 750-800 kids (think that's roughly where the girls schools come out give or take. and the spending is about 85k per students, so we aren't talking about 1/7th but rather about 10% of spending getting cut. Most organizations can easily cut 10% (corporates do this every few years) - and my guess is the schools haven't had to clean house for many years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid had the on-site Friends writing sample. We were turned off as it was sprung on him. The concept actually was nice - I believe he was asked to write about something he hadn't gotten to talk about during the interview, which is helpful (or difficult if you have nothing to say). Ironically he wrote about something that we spent most of the parent interview discussing. We generally found their admissions people to be distant and cold, and this was particularly notable after we were accepted and it was just kind of blah.

This is an interesting point about the admission people - we were not really pleased with the Spence admissions people nor did they really do a good job telling us about the schools strengths. The other option that we felt did a much better job was Nightingale They were warm, friendly and did a great job telling us about the school.

We didn't even bother to send a letter to Spence but did send a letter to (not FC) N. Got into both (rejected at Chapin). However, once we got into Spence they turned 180 and were so forthcoming and helpful. However, it actually wasn't as easy decision since we liked N very much. We did have a heart to heart with a family who went there and they did tell us about some of the negatives. We ended up picking Spence and have been happy.

Curious what the negatives were at N? So hard to differentiate between S/C/N that every nuance is interesting to hear.

Negatives - not to dump on the school, we liked it a ton. The negatives were related to spending on athletics (new facility) and lack of rigor in math (middle school). The source felt like the parents concerns regarding the teacher wasn't being addressed.

It was also a bit less diverse than C/S.

Our daughter wasn't 100% impressed with the 1/2 day session at N either. I don't believe S gave her that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

We looked at catholic high schools in addition to non-catholic private schools and they are much less expensive and have extremely large and loyal alumni bases, especially the boys schools. Regis is free but Xavier and FP give merit aid. Regis and Xavier both have endowments over 100 million. Not as flashy as the private schools but much more emphasis on character development. DA is small but a solid choice for girls. An option for families that can’t or won’t shell out 70k and don’t want to do public. UNIS is also much less and we found it had a lot to offer, especially if you want IB and and emphasis on languages.

My feeling is there is a limit on how much these schools can charge if they care about retaining any UMC families. Go to a cheaper for free school and spend some of that extra money on enrichment and private college counseling and you will still end up way ahead financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

Just an FYI--Dwight has seen this gap and started a new school--Franklin--in Jersey City. Had some impressive college exmissions for their first fully-grown graduating seniors this year, and its under 35K. We strongly considered it. If you live near the PATH, it's the first stop in Jersey City. Would have taken my child 20 minutes to get there from the West Village, door to door. It's very STEM focused, and my child wanted a more well rounded experience, but I think it's going to be a hard school to get into soon. Dynamic head of school, with all of the resources of the Dwight network of schools, for half the price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marymount and CSH are Tier 2. Nightingale is t3

Sounds like we have a Marymount parent here. Nightingale is T2 and Marymount is T3/T4.

I agreed, i feel Nightingale is T2 and CSH/Marymount is T3. My kid is not in any of the schools but just from reputation perspective and I heard N 's college placement is strong.

All three are good schools but none are super hard to get into. This is really splitting hairs. I think Marymount’s reputation has increased over the years. It’s probably just as good as the other schools but maybe does have the same cache.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

Just an FYI--Dwight has seen this gap and started a new school--Franklin--in Jersey City. Had some impressive college exmissions for their first fully-grown graduating seniors this year, and its under 35K. We strongly considered it. If you live near the PATH, it's the first stop in Jersey City. Would have taken my child 20 minutes to get there from the West Village, door to door. It's very STEM focused, and my child wanted a more well rounded experience, but I think it's going to be a hard school to get into soon. Dynamic head of school, with all of the resources of the Dwight network of schools, for half the price.

We looked at it too and know people there that are having a good experience. It’s full of very nice kids, many from the private K-8s in Hoboken and JC and some kids come in from Manhattan. This year’s graduating class was the first that started at 9th and they seem to be getting into good colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

We looked at catholic high schools in addition to non-catholic private schools and they are much less expensive and have extremely large and loyal alumni bases, especially the boys schools. Regis is free but Xavier and FP give merit aid. Regis and Xavier both have endowments over 100 million. Not as flashy as the private schools but much more emphasis on character development. DA is small but a solid choice for girls. An option for families that can’t or won’t shell out 70k and don’t want to do public. UNIS is also much less and we found it had a lot to offer, especially if you want IB and and emphasis on languages.

My feeling is there is a limit on how much these schools can charge if they care about retaining any UMC families. Go to a cheaper for free school and spend some of that extra money on enrichment and private college counseling and you will still end up way ahead financially.

Many borderline UMC families can get some aid for schools. I don't think the TT schools are going to let a great student get away because UNIS is 15k cheaper. They will provide 5-10k to close the gap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

We looked at catholic high schools in addition to non-catholic private schools and they are much less expensive and have extremely large and loyal alumni bases, especially the boys schools. Regis is free but Xavier and FP give merit aid. Regis and Xavier both have endowments over 100 million. Not as flashy as the private schools but much more emphasis on character development. DA is small but a solid choice for girls. An option for families that can’t or won’t shell out 70k and don’t want to do public. UNIS is also much less and we found it had a lot to offer, especially if you want IB and and emphasis on languages.

My feeling is there is a limit on how much these schools can charge if they care about retaining any UMC families. Go to a cheaper for free school and spend some of that extra money on enrichment and private college counseling and you will still end up way ahead financially.

Many borderline UMC families can get some aid for schools. I don't think the TT schools are going to let a great student get away because UNIS is 15k cheaper. They will provide 5-10k to close the gap

That’s not correct, I speak from experience. Many of these schools are really not that generous with aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing to me how much money private schools waste on various special interests. My kids play sports and I love sports but the amount wasted on them by private schools is ridiculous. They commit to having a team but might have very few kids sign up but still have to pay for it (coach, transportation, sometimes facilities).

Similarly, there is lots of administrative bureaucracy that really is not necessary. But it makes some kids and families feel special. So they can't cut it.

Schools could also cut back on financial aid and it likely would not be really noticed. There is much less disclosed about this than for colleges. Easy way to save some money.

Some schools are also in much better shape facilities-wise than others.

my guess is $10k per student could easily be cut from the budget at most of these schools.

Sure, but unless they all did it, many of their potential customers - including the ones in a position to make very large donations - would not care about the cost savings but would wonder why this school was cheaper and whether that also meant it was worse in some way, and might even notice that your school didn't offer a JV kickboxing team while that other fancy school that still charges $70k does. Not to mention that cutting the budget by 1/7th would inevitably mean pissing off some existing constituencies at the school who would loudly complain to the press / leave for other schools / etc.

There might be an opportunity for a new school to come in and charge $40k, but of course then you're a new school with no reputation or alumni and all brand new staff and only whatever capital your initial wealthy backers put up. (the only recent new nonprofit school I can think of is Speyer, and they're a K-8 with 2 sections per grade and very very limited facilities and they still charge the same as everybody else)

We looked at catholic high schools in addition to non-catholic private schools and they are much less expensive and have extremely large and loyal alumni bases, especially the boys schools. Regis is free but Xavier and FP give merit aid. Regis and Xavier both have endowments over 100 million. Not as flashy as the private schools but much more emphasis on character development. DA is small but a solid choice for girls. An option for families that can’t or won’t shell out 70k and don’t want to do public. UNIS is also much less and we found it had a lot to offer, especially if you want IB and and emphasis on languages.

My feeling is there is a limit on how much these schools can charge if they care about retaining any UMC families. Go to a cheaper for free school and spend some of that extra money on enrichment and private college counseling and you will still end up way ahead financially.

Many borderline UMC families can get some aid for schools. I don't think the TT schools are going to let a great student get away because UNIS is 15k cheaper. They will provide 5-10k to close the gap

That’s not correct, I speak from experience. Many of these schools are really not that generous with aid.

Did you have another acceptance to show them - with lower price?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also regarding St Anns DNA. but also can't overlook their college placement, even now.

GCS is a solid school, but also very much a full pay place. They dont have the endowment TTs have. They dont have the college placement of 2Ts like Regis or St Ann's or, if we were adding publics, schools like Bronx Science or Hunter.

I put GCS on the same tier as Beacon and Poly Prep and Berkeley Carroll. I think that's 3T.

And if I wanted to open a can of worms: I'd also put Avenues in this tier. It's a good education with solid college counseling and outcomes. Also pretty much full pay, but it is what it is

If you are going to be very granular and say 2T is just Regis, St. Ann's, and maybe Riverdale, then I would agree that Grace is 3T. Though if also being that granular, I would likely differentiate it from Berkeley Carroll and make that 4T. If you are doing a broader view of 2T then Grace sneaks in.

Agreed that Avenues is an odd duck. Probably agree with you on the tiering. But it draws a different crowd. And I know some people who sent their kid for elementary (particularly those who live downtown for whom it was convenient) and maxed out the language portion then applied out as they felt that that was its primary differentiating factor and the HS was not as good.

Okay, I'll try. I agree that GCS is getting rising in ranks - just 3-4 years ago they'd take anyone who could pay and was tier 4 - but it's not tier 2. I don't have deep insight into all these schools so this is just my take as a person who has two kids in private high schools in nyc, has been through the application process twice as an unhooked family, and follows college placement somewhat. I'm sure there are glaring errors.

(these aren't ranked within tiers)

tier 1
Trinity
Collegiate
Dalton
Spence
Brearley
HM
Chapin

tier 2
St Ann's
Regis
Riverdale
Fieldstone
Marymount
Sacred Heart
Nightingale

tier 3
Loyola
GCS
Packer
Poly
Avenues
Friends Seminary

Tier 4
BFS
BC
Basis
Hewitt
Dwight
Trevor
Calhoun
Hackley
Lycée
UNIS
Xavier/Fordham Prep
Notre Dame/DA/SVF

--

I'm the one who has been defending Grace (though I have no direct ties) but I think this is generally really good (and I'm OK with Grace where it is given these groupings). Only minor quibbles. I have boys so don't know the girl's schools well but I don't think all three of Marymount, Sacred Heart and Nightingale are T2 - that is overloading that tier with girls schools and I just don't think that is the case. But I'm not sure which I would drop.

I know Trevor is much debated but I could make a compelling argument for it now being T3. It is basically the weakest T3 or the strongest T4, but I just don't see it being grouped with most of the other T4s.

Not a big CGPS fan and it pains me to say it but it is probably T3.

Agree that Poly is still T3 though on the decline.

I think you also missed Leman which I think everyone would agree is T4.

Nice job - thanks!

Trevor is bottom T2 and top T3 when compared to these schools in any way.