NYT article on men struggling with their place in society

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

First of all, the idea of limited resources is a fallacy.

Also, if you only feel comfortable discussing things with the concept that there are limited resources than the people, you should have a problem with other people that eat so much pie they are throwing up and have to give it to Africa because they have so much… billionaires.

Not getting it. It’s how people feel and what they see in their own lives. I got into Ivy school and my white kid cant. I’m up for promotion or prestigious thing and it never goes to a white person. People are telling you this in this thread and then the response is oh you’re wrong. Then people feel gaslit and they’re pissed.

Black people are not gatekeeping your child’s ability to get into an Ivy League school.

You realize that’s athletes and children of billionaires.

We are not gaslighting you we are telling you facts. The fact is your white male child did not get into an Ivy League school because an Asian, a white athlete, and a rich kid got ahead of him.

If you wanted him to get in, you should’ve done better and bought a building for the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

First of all, the idea of limited resources is a fallacy.

Also, if you only feel comfortable discussing things with the concept that there are limited resources than the people, you should have a problem with other people that eat so much pie they are throwing up and have to give it to Africa because they have so much… billionaires.

Not getting it. It’s how people feel and what they see in their own lives. I got into Ivy school and my white kid cant. I’m up for promotion or prestigious thing and it never goes to a white person. People are telling you this in this thread and then the response is oh you’re wrong. Then people feel gaslit and they’re pissed.

The white population is shrinking percentage wise and the birth rate has dropped. Even after the DEI programs are cut, things will not be the same anymore.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/new-census-data-shows-the-nation-is-diversifying-even-faster-than-predicted/

Yes we hear your facts. Unfortunately humans don’t always hear or process facts. Or people like Trump lie and twist facts because they understand how people feel and then it’s easy to tell them lies. You can be right all day long and you’re still stuck with this idiot for a president because you’re dense.

Perhaps you aren’t aware that we have just survived 4 long years of JOE BIDEN at the helm. So you might want to reconsider the extent of your bashing of the next guy.

If you think Joe Biden is terrible then surely you understand the problem of the incompetent white men getting and keeping positions of power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/01/16/opinion/men-trump-voters-focus-group.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk4.M2Hr.Thy5lM84dXHH&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

I just read this and I am not sure there is an eye roll emoji that can accurately reflect how ridiculous this article is. A focus group of 12 men who voted for Trump. I admit I am a 40-something woman, with sisters and daughters so I probably have less opportunity to see this, but I struggle to believe that men are feeling like they don’t have a place in society. They OWN society. What is the deal with this whining? Even the comments about how they feel like chivalry is gone because women give them a dirty look if they hold a door. It is BASIC courtesy. And since when are men worried about getting a dirty look?

Can anyone explain this to me?

I bet the people who are disagreeing with you, OP, are these BOY MOMS.

I think those men are whiny, and I have both a boy and a girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

Men are going to college less than women because low paying jobs that women do like teaching and nursing require a college degree while heating and electric and carpentry and fixing cars do not require a college degree.

Women are still required to do more than men to get the same amount of pay or even less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

That's part of it, yes. And women have told men that they are the source of all evil and aren't wanted. And for some reason, they listened. Should have ignored the women...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

Men are going to college less than women because low paying jobs that women do like teaching and nursing require a college degree while heating and electric and carpentry and fixing cars do not require a college degree.

Women are still required to do more than men to get the same amount of pay or even less.

This isn't true at all. Women work part time more than men but still are paid equally or more. Guys are noticing and starting to try to figure out how they can cut their hours, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The other thread on this has been eye-opening.

I'm beginning to see how Trump won. He's a voice for the marginalized and straight white dudes now see themselves that way due to overzealous DEI practices.

I find some DEI practices a bit too restrictive. We had a female employee give notice and to maintain a "good ratio" on our team, my supervisor said the new hire had to be a woman. So boobs > qualifications, cool.

I think it's situations like this, which happen, that have created a narrative for some portion of the population that white men (and sometimes white women too) are victims.

In many parts of life - working class jobs, college admissions, professional jobs - we have been told out loud that white people's piece of the pie needs to be smaller in whatever way we can make it happen. This is because their piece of the pie was way too big. But the white people alive right this minute in this time, they FEEL and they PERCEIVE that they are being squeezed out. And isn't life all about perceptions? They perceive their piece of the pie is shrinking (and maybe it is) and there is the same number of them and they're scrambling for someone to blame and an answer and a way to keep the piece of the pie for themselves and most importantly, their children.

I think this is important to talk about if we want to understand the rise of Trump. Dismissing it as "insane" is at our own peril.

First of all, the idea of limited resources is a fallacy.

Also, if you only feel comfortable discussing things with the concept that there are limited resources than the people, you should have a problem with other people that eat so much pie they are throwing up and have to give it to Africa because they have so much… billionaires.

Not getting it. It’s how people feel and what they see in their own lives. I got into Ivy school and my white kid cant. I’m up for promotion or prestigious thing and it never goes to a white person. People are telling you this in this thread and then the response is oh you’re wrong. Then people feel gaslit and they’re pissed.

Most people who are “qualified” don’t get into Ivies. The fact you think your kids rejection is some kind of larger racial problem. That’s on you. You’re not getting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/01/16/opinion/men-trump-voters-focus-group.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk4.M2Hr.Thy5lM84dXHH&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

I just read this and I am not sure there is an eye roll emoji that can accurately reflect how ridiculous this article is. A focus group of 12 men who voted for Trump. I admit I am a 40-something woman, with sisters and daughters so I probably have less opportunity to see this, but I struggle to believe that men are feeling like they don’t have a place in society. They OWN society. What is the deal with this whining? Even the comments about how they feel like chivalry is gone because women give them a dirty look if they hold a door. It is BASIC courtesy. And since when are men worried about getting a dirty look?

Can anyone explain this to me?

They used to own society. Now women own something like 2% and they are seething about it. It's no surprise coming from trumpers though lol. White men are the biggest victims of the 21st century

+100
The thread on gay men proves this. If you're used to being handed everything in life (straight men) and suddenly you have to work for things, you get mad. If you haven't had everything handed to you in life, you're benefiting now that societal values have shifted.

I agree with this.

I also found this article somewhat eye opening and a lot less offensive than I thought it would be, even though these guys are all just marinating in right wing media.

I think we have to acknowledge that men and boys are falling behind and then also be upfront that they will have to work hard and compete with their peers, and that includes girls. Until that's the message I'm not interested in investing a lot of time in this issue.

This is the issue. The answer is putting in more work that leads to lucrative results. Everyone who is passing these men by realizes this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

Men are going to college less than women because low paying jobs that women do like teaching and nursing require a college degree while heating and electric and carpentry and fixing cars do not require a college degree.

Women are still required to do more than men to get the same amount of pay or even less.

This isn't true at all. Women work part time more than men but still are paid equally or more. Guys are noticing and starting to try to figure out how they can cut their hours, too.

This is factually untrue.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/

[Anonymous]

I don’t know but Mark Zuckerberg was recently talking about masculinity. Who made him an authority? I agree masculinity is in crisis. I think many men are whiny babies who have benefitted off the backs of women and those less fortunate than them (slaves, servants, immigrants).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know but Mark Zuckerberg was recently talking about masculinity. Who made him an authority? I agree masculinity is in crisis. I think many men are whiny babies who have benefitted off the backs of women and those less fortunate than them (slaves, servants, immigrants).

It's 2025. Men who are 21-45 were born in 1980-2003ish. Men in that age range benefitted from slaves, servants, and immigrants to an identical extent as women and all Americans.

Thank you, slaves, servants and immigrants.

- all Americans including both men and women

[Anonymous]

This is simply an observation but I live in DC but grew up in a red rural area a couple hours away. I still have family there and visit a lot and it sort of amazes me how differently the men there are now compared to when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Most of them are fat and bearded and give off socially awkward vibes. Even the married ones. I think of men in that area when I grew up and they were fit, clean shaved, worked hard, owned a suit, knew how to be social. I think many of them now just spend time in virtual worlds (chat rooms, right wing media sites) feeding their most base instincts. And in becoming sedentary they got out of shape and lazy but somehow still think respect and "winning" in society are their birthrights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they suddenly are experiencing a lack of sea parting for straight men in society and are having breakdowns and being crybabies. Mad because society has started to value competence and excellence over gender/race/physical appearance/stereotypes of what kind of people should be in what roles in society.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are awarded college degrees at far higher rates than men, according to PEW research:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/18/us-women-are-outpacing-men-in-college-completion-including-in-every-major-racial-and-ethnic-group/

And the rate is higher among all racial groups.

yea but men should still get higher paying jobs /s

Like I said, women have up'd their game while men have stayed stagnant. But, they still feel so put upon and entitled. Big babies.

That's part of it, yes. And women have told men that they are the source of all evil and aren't wanted. And for some reason, they listened. Should have ignored the women...

Did they listen? It doesn’t feel like they went away or tried to change into something good and useful to society.
It seems like they got louder than ever and elected their guy president.

What do you think listening looks like? If you tell your kid that their behavior isn’t wanted, is hurting them, and is hurting the household as a whole, what do you think your kid should do?