Texas woman died because of abortion ban

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

So you're admitting that the Texas law only allows "emergency" abortions, i.e. when a woman is close to death. But that someone in this kind of category, where the pregnancy could at any minute turn deadly, cannot receive one. Because, see first sentence. You have to be on your death bed to receive one.

That is not a standard of care most of us would choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

But that isn’t what Texas law is. Texas law is abortions are allowed in emergency situations. Someone in this thread is trying to cite this case as an example of courts overruling what doctors say is an emergency and women being denied emergency care even though the law makes exceptions for it. But that isn’t the case here and she never in an emergency situation that would necessitate an abortion per her doctors. Whether or not Texas law should have exceptions beyond emergency abortions is a different topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

But that isn’t what Texas law is. Texas law is abortions are allowed in emergency situations. Someone in this thread is trying to cite this case as an example of courts overruling what doctors say is an emergency and women being denied emergency care even though the law makes exceptions for it. But that isn’t the case here and she never in an emergency situation that would necessitate an abortion per her doctors. Whether or not Texas law should have exceptions beyond emergency abortions is a different topic.

So you want her sitting in the hospital parking lot, waiting for her bold pressure to tank enough from sepsis that it becomes a dire emergency. Got it.

[Anonymous]

^^blood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

She didn't have an emergency situation yet. But she likely would have if she hadn't gone out of state for an abortion. Very similar to this case, just on a longer timeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

But that isn’t what Texas law is. Texas law is abortions are allowed in emergency situations. Someone in this thread is trying to cite this case as an example of courts overruling what doctors say is an emergency and women being denied emergency care even though the law makes exceptions for it. But that isn’t the case here and she never in an emergency situation that would necessitate an abortion per her doctors. Whether or not Texas law should have exceptions beyond emergency abortions is a different topic.

Ok, but if you define "medical emergency" as the person is about to die then and there (which is how Ken Paxton defines it), then Josseli Barnica also did not have an emergency situation when she arrived at the hospital. That's the whole issue. The doctors said it wasn't an emergency yet because she was still stable, and they couldn't do anything until she became unstable a few days later and it was an emergency. But at that point, they were unable to save her.

[Anonymous]

Bottom line: no one should be defining what is an "emergency" situation but the doctor. Why don't those f*n lawyers stay out of our health care? Go bother spousal abusers and child molesters. Leave the doctoring to the doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: no one should be defining what is an "emergency" situation but the doctor. Why don't those f*n lawyers stay out of our health care? Go bother spousal abusers and child molesters. Leave the doctoring to the doctors.

But the doctors ARE the ones deciding if it is an emergency.

Katie’s Cox doctor didn’t feel it was an emergency. Why is this so hard to understand? SHE went to court against the state because she wanted to be granted a medical exception.

Please find a case where a doctor preformed an abortion because they deemed a situation a medical emergency and were then found guilty of providing an illegal abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

But that isn’t what Texas law is. Texas law is abortions are allowed in emergency situations. Someone in this thread is trying to cite this case as an example of courts overruling what doctors say is an emergency and women being denied emergency care even though the law makes exceptions for it. But that isn’t the case here and she never in an emergency situation that would necessitate an abortion per her doctors. Whether or not Texas law should have exceptions beyond emergency abortions is a different topic.

Ok, but if you define "medical emergency" as the person is about to die then and there (which is how Ken Paxton defines it), then Josseli Barnica also did not have an emergency situation when she arrived at the hospital. That's the whole issue. The doctors said it wasn't an emergency yet because she was still stable, and they couldn't do anything until she became unstable a few days later and it was an emergency. But at that point, they were unable to save her.

For Josseli Barnica, they didn't act when medically prudent to do so, because the law scared them into waiting. Why does something have to become an emergency? Do doctors wait to perform appendectomies until the very last moment because oh, the patient won't die, right now? No. This is only done with reproductive care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

But that isn’t what Texas law is. Texas law is abortions are allowed in emergency situations. Someone in this thread is trying to cite this case as an example of courts overruling what doctors say is an emergency and women being denied emergency care even though the law makes exceptions for it. But that isn’t the case here and she never in an emergency situation that would necessitate an abortion per her doctors. Whether or not Texas law should have exceptions beyond emergency abortions is a different topic.

So in the current case prompting this thread, the woman did not become septic until after. She would not have become septic if she was given abortion, but AT THAT TIME, while a heartbeat was still present and she was NOT YET SEPTIC, she was not close enough to death's door to qualify.

It's not medical malpractice because the doctors were following law. But also, yes, the fact that she couldn't get an abortion prior to development of sepsis meant she died in the end.

Emergent is not a black and white situation. It is a continuum of risk and doctors are not psychic. The law does NOT quantify degree of risk nor can it even be quantified in each situation where patients will have a variety of contributing factors, underlying comorbidities, etc. that make every situation different.

[Anonymous]

So much for pro lifers!!

Guess they care as long as you are a clump of cells. But once you are a full grown woman, you are on your own!

Why can’t those Texas legislators be charged with murder????

[Anonymous]

Do you want your doctor weighing his odds of losing his license and going to jail against your odds of experiencing life threatening complication?

Trump and his justices have killed these women, as if his assault of women were not bad enough 😩

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: no one should be defining what is an "emergency" situation but the doctor. Why don't those f*n lawyers stay out of our health care? Go bother spousal abusers and child molesters. Leave the doctoring to the doctors.

But the doctors ARE the ones deciding if it is an emergency.

Katie’s Cox doctor didn’t feel it was an emergency. Why is this so hard to understand? SHE went to court against the state because she wanted to be granted a medical exception.

Please find a case where a doctor preformed an abortion because they deemed a situation a medical emergency and were then found guilty of providing an illegal abortion.

why on earth would a doctor put their practice on the line, including jail time, to provide what they deem "medical emergency" when a lawyer can decide what is or is not an emergency?

I hope you or your loved one never finds themselves in this position. Or maybe you should so that you have some empathy for these women. Seems like some people have to learn the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: no one should be defining what is an "emergency" situation but the doctor. Why don't those f*n lawyers stay out of our health care? Go bother spousal abusers and child molesters. Leave the doctoring to the doctors.

But the doctors ARE the ones deciding if it is an emergency.

Katie’s Cox doctor didn’t feel it was an emergency. Why is this so hard to understand? SHE went to court against the state because she wanted to be granted a medical exception.

Please find a case where a doctor preformed an abortion because they deemed a situation a medical emergency and were then found guilty of providing an illegal abortion.

why on earth would a doctor put their practice on the line, including jail time, to provide what they deem "medical emergency" when a lawyer can decide what is or is not an emergency?

I hope you or your loved one never finds themselves in this position. Or maybe you should so that you have some empathy for these women. Seems like some people have to learn the hard way.

And let's be clear about this -- if they risk an investigation (not even a conviction, but a complaint made by anybody leading to an investigation), then their license is likely to be suspended, their privileges suspended, and all their other patients left in the cold without care.

[Anonymous]

It is a huge problem with the “waiting until it is an emergency”. At that point the probability of maternal mortality may drop to 50%, when that could have been reduced to 1% had they been legally allowed to intervene earlier.