Texas woman died because of abortion ban

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

This woman was in labor. It’s not remotely the same situation.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

[Anonymous]

This woman was in labor, not remotely the same situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

+1

[Anonymous]

Some states have reciprocal licensing agreements with surrounding states, and transferring your medical practice is quite simple.

For others, you have to apply, and it can take a couple of months. Better to start sooner than later. In fact, doctors can get a license in multiple states at the same time. Might be a good time to get an extra license just in case you need to move quickly later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

+1

So you both want to second-guess and judge the doctors, just like the AGs and governors of red states?

Okay. Maybe it's time for those doctors to go where they can practice as they were trained (highly trained) without constant threats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

+1

Nope this will not count as malpractice. She did not die until 3 days after the miscarriage due and experienced infection due to prolonged cervical dilation. What is the cutoff guideline in TX law for when they can offer abortion when the fetus still has a heartbeat, but the mom is fine? The risk was what would happen in the future and how much risk went over the vague guidelines to qualify as endangering the mother's life? Obviously she went septic in the days afterwards, but she was not septic at the time of the prolonged miscarriage during which infant still had a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Did you miss that established doctors are also leaving red states? Prosecute them for trying to follow the law, and that trend will accelerate. They and their colleagues can see what is happening.

I think that this is why a nationwide abortion ban is likely to happen. Then, the doctors cannot leave their state, because every other state will be as bad for them. It will staunch the bleeding from the anti-abortion states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Did you miss that established doctors are also leaving red states? Prosecute them for trying to follow the law, and that trend will accelerate. They and their colleagues can see what is happening.

I think that this is why a nationwide abortion ban is likely to happen. Then, the doctors cannot leave their state, because every other state will be as bad for them. It will staunch the bleeding from the anti-abortion states.

Other countries have made it much easier to get reciprocal licensing, especially with US Board certification. Sure, some won't want to pull up stakes and move to Canada, but Ontario has made it very easy, as have other provinces.

And there's always just stopping seeing patients and working for a drug company, or for an insurance company. There are a lot of options that don't come with threats of prosecutions. Work at the local Department of Public Health at an STI clinic -- we currently have the CDC sending "syphilis SWAT teams" to outbreaks, so there is dire need. Just stop doing deliveries altogether.

The average OB-Gyn salary is about $300,000 a year, and the average yearly amount they shell out in malpractice insurance is 10%, or $30,000. At what point does that ratio become completely unsustainable, despite what you are passionate about?

The ever-increasing OB-Gyn shortage: https://riskandinsurance.com/high-medical-malpractice-premiums-are-driving-ob-gyns-out-of-the-business-how-will-women-cope/

[Anonymous]

Gotta love all the MAGAs here who apparently think they understand Texas law better than the hospital's lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

+1

You should go talk to the TX AG.

[Anonymous]

You can't force doctors to do what you want, because you can't force them to work in areas they decide not to be present. That's true geographically and for areas in scope of care.

If you push the point, OB-Gyns can make the call not to deal with pregnancies and deliveries -- essentially, they give up obstetrics and just focus on other aspects of gynecology. That is absolutely permitted within scope of licensure.

Push that further, and you will get them retiring, immigrating, or moving to other areas of medicine. You don't have a cudgel big enough to force that not to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Yep. Texas medicine is practiced by lawyers now (and lawyers who lean really far in the direction of being anti-woman).

One way to solve the doctor shortage, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is doctor malpractice. The baby’s head was already exiting the cervix and she needed medicine to speed up the delivery. It’s not even about abortion which is allowed under Texas law for a “medical emergency” anyway, she was in the middle of a miscarriage that they allowed to go on too long.

But the heart hadn't stopped beating and under Texas law that was the relevant part.

You see, if you think that doctors should be able to exercise reasonable judgment, then you should advocate for laws that allow doctors to do just that. Because these doctors certainly did not want this woman to die, and they also didn't want to go to jail - and they chose the latter over the former.

THAT is the system that Texas Republicans have in place, thanks to Donald Trump - serial rapist, payer of many abortions.

These are not reasonable laws. You can talk out both sides of your mouth trying to insist they are. But this woman is dead. I think her argument is more persuasive.

Speeding up delivery is not an abortion, for one. She was already delivering the child.
In addition, Texas law allows for abortions in a “medical emergency” so again, this is doctor malpractice.

Correct. The doctor failed to recognize medical the distress his patient was in and failed to provide emergency treatment. Unfortunately this happens with or without abortion bans. You internet warriors can find many many articles of pregnant women who get septic, die, bleed to death because their OB/Gyn waited too long or did the wrong thing- even in blue states. It’s MALPRACTICE

I guess you think the doctors need to go to jail for not giving her an abortion then.

What a great system.

Of course. Failing to treat a patient in an emergent situation that leads to their death should be prosecuted. It was clear this was an emergency and he failed to act. What’s the gray area?

Because the emergency treatment she needed was illegal.

Actually it wasn’t, which is why it is malpractice. Emergency treatment IS legal, even abortions, in every single state

No, it was illegal.

“But Texas’ new abortion ban had just gone into effect. It required physicians to confirm the absence of a fetal heartbeat before intervening unless there was a “medical emergency,” which the law did not define. It required doctors to make written notes on the patient’s condition and the reason abortion was necessary.

The law did not account for the possibility of a future emergency, one that could develop in hours or days without intervention, doctors told ProPublica.

Barnica was technically still stable. But lying in the hospital with her cervix open wider than a baseball left her uterus exposed to bacteria and placed her at high risk of developing sepsis, experts told ProPublica. Infections can move fast and be hard to control once they take hold.”

The law doesn’t need to define medical emergency because that is what doctors are trained to identify. She was left 9cm dilated for over 40 hrs, with zero intervention. Of course that is an emergency and the doctor failing to act can’t hide behind abortion restrictions. They will be sued and they will lose

When Kate Coxs doctors said her situation was a medical emergency, Ken Paxton disagreed and threatened to prosecute them. So it’s not actually the doctors decision. It’s the decision of prosecutors months or years after the fact. No doctor is going to bet their freedom on what Ken Paxton considers to be an emergency.

Actually you are mistaken. Her doctors didn’t think she needed an emergency abortion, which is why they wouldn’t do one, which is why she went to court to try and get an appeal. She had a “high risk” pregnancy due to her c-section x2 history and some elevated blood pressures. But she was never in an emergency situation. She and her husband decided between the diagnosis of the baby and her underlying risk, it wasn’t worth continuing the pregnancy, but that is not the same thing as being denied emergency care.

They didn't think she needed an emergency procedure right at that moment, no. But it should have been her and her physician's discussion to weigh her options for her own longterm safety without interference -- whether her first physician, or someone she went to for a second or third opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's essentially the same scenario as what happened in Ireland leading to the overturn of abortion law there.

But will MAGAs care or make excuses? Likely make excuses.

Came here to say just this.