Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

The discussion is about the redshirted outliers who are at least 6m from the cutoff. I think 19.5 is old to graduate personally. I can see many kids in that situation being frustrated the last year and just wanting to get out of the house. I know I did as a 17 year old senior. I can’t imagine being 2 years older and not being so ready to go away to college and have some independence.

No it's not about the outliers. It's about redshirting in general. The majority are very close to the cutoff which makes the hyperbole about 20yr old high school graduates ridiculous.

It’s about multiple 7 year olds in a kinder class.

Then move to a lower income area and move to a diverse school that better aligns with your values.

You sound like so many people pre-kids. Why don’t you actually have children before you fancy yourself an expert on this?

I mean, that PP is correct. Your best solution to this non-problem is to leave your clearly very wealthy school district and enroll in another one that better fits your values. At least if you did that, you wouldn’t be as much of a hypocrite.

My kid’s school had very few redshirted kids. It absolutely did not have individual writing and reading tutors for kids who were a little behind the state standards; the exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems. But I’m sure that you consider all of that nothing compared to the existential horror of your snowflake having to be in a class with a child six months older. Looking forward to hearing your plans for moving!

Great solution. I’m not moving from my house I bought pre kids where my kids attend a great school so I can write a post every few months bragging about “exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems.” You’re so woke? Congrats. Or YOU could move to a school that’s a better environment for your own child, but you won’t because your pretentious identity is more important to you.

Those kids are at your "great" school as well. Surprise. They just fall through the cracks. My kids grew up in those schools. You need to learn what they did, empathy. There are plenty of kids struggling at rich schools as parents at rich schools ignore their kids as well but they have less justification ask they can afford tutors and therapists but choose not to.

In no way, shape, or form do any of the anti-redshirters in this thread care whatsoever about children other than their own. They’ve said as much. You aren’t going to get them to have empathy for kids who struggle, particularly when those struggling kids have the audacity to attend the PP’s “great” school.

That’s a false assumption these older kids are struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

Right, there is a big difference between outside tutoring and classes and redshirting: outside tutoring and supplementation have been shown in studies to cause harm to other children in the classroom, to the point where educators are now trained in how to try to mitigate that harm, while redshirting has not been shown to cause any harm. So, you are correct: your tutoring and outside academic supplements are in fact quite different than redshirting. I’m glad you acknowledge the serious harm you are doing to other children by your outside academic supplements.

Also, I wasn’t talking about what other parents were doing. I was talking about what you are going to do, because you are so worried about parents doing things that supposedly cause harm to other students. I want to know what you are going to do to mitigate the harms you are causing since you are so harshly judging other parents for your (imaginary, unsupported) claims of harm.

I’ll ask you again: when are you going to move your child to an at-risk school district? When are you going to stop externally supplementing, and start lobbying the school boards against such programs? When are you going to do something that actually helps all those kids you supposedly worry about?

I know you won’t answer this. You are an utter raging hypocrite like most of DCUMs anti-redshirt posters. You know I’m right, too, which is why you are scrambling to talk about what those other parents do and not answer the questions about your own actions.

That's a bunch of smoke. You have a group of parents actively involved with their kids and another group who isn't who holds back their kids to make it easier on them. Working with your kids to make sure they are on or above target is the right thing to do as a parent. You cannot rely on the school system to do everything for every child. I am proud I taught my kids a good foundation. I'm sorry you weren't willing to spend that time with a child who equally struggled, which is why mine are surpassing yours now even though yours are two years older than mine in the same grade.

I didn’t redshirt, but as usual with anti-redshirt posters, you immediately jumped to attacking children. It is what you folks always do, especially when your hypocrisy is on full display: attack children.

We all see you for what you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

The discussion is about the redshirted outliers who are at least 6m from the cutoff. I think 19.5 is old to graduate personally. I can see many kids in that situation being frustrated the last year and just wanting to get out of the house. I know I did as a 17 year old senior. I can’t imagine being 2 years older and not being so ready to go away to college and have some independence.

No it's not about the outliers. It's about redshirting in general. The majority are very close to the cutoff which makes the hyperbole about 20yr old high school graduates ridiculous.

It’s about multiple 7 year olds in a kinder class.

Then move to a lower income area and move to a diverse school that better aligns with your values.

You sound like so many people pre-kids. Why don’t you actually have children before you fancy yourself an expert on this?

I mean, that PP is correct. Your best solution to this non-problem is to leave your clearly very wealthy school district and enroll in another one that better fits your values. At least if you did that, you wouldn’t be as much of a hypocrite.

My kid’s school had very few redshirted kids. It absolutely did not have individual writing and reading tutors for kids who were a little behind the state standards; the exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems. But I’m sure that you consider all of that nothing compared to the existential horror of your snowflake having to be in a class with a child six months older. Looking forward to hearing your plans for moving!

Great solution. I’m not moving from my house I bought pre kids where my kids attend a great school so I can write a post every few months bragging about “exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems.” You’re so woke? Congrats. Or YOU could move to a school that’s a better environment for your own child, but you won’t because your pretentious identity is more important to you.

At least you aren’t bothering to pretend you are anything other than an entitled hypocrite any more. Glad you admit that.

Also, I did move. But I certainly never came to DCUM to whine about my precious snowflake and the existential horror of DC having three older kids in his class. I’d have died of embarrassment first, truthfully.

You should be dying of embarrassment over how bizarre you are.

I suppose that’s the last thin straw you have to hold onto, since your hypocrisy and entitlement have been so thoroughly demonstrated. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all so obsessed with other people's kids? Maybe your problem is really with colleges and competitions with artificial grade-based boundaries for giving out prizes. Attack the real problem.

It’s the teasing, it’s the spots on select athletic teams sorted by grade… it’s an unfair advantage in elementary school and it puts the youngest kids at a disadvantage. My kid has been teased for his height and he’s in the 95 percentile for height for his age but in such a redshirt heavy school with a lot of tall peers he plays sports with, you would not be able to tell he’s tall for his age. He is still smaller than kids 14m older. He’s mid June birthday and has several early spring kids in his class. I don’t really care about the height thing but time and time again, the younger kids are held to higher standards. Most of the kids selected for the peer leadership team at our school are redshirted kids. I think the schools want to older kids to be honest. They have less to worry about all around, especially with academic. A 6.5 year old is much more read to read than a just turned 5 year old. Everything is just easier. They are usually behaved in the classroom, but many have issues with peers and teasing/bullying outside of the classroom. That’s been my experience. I’m not talking about redshirts within a month or two, Im talking about kids who were intentionally held back to have an advantage that are 6m from the cut off.

When are you going to stop external supplementation and education for your child? When are you going to move to an at-risk school district? Since you claim to care so much about parents not doing anything that might advantage their child, I assume you are going to be consistent. Please update us!

They do that too. There is a big difference between getting tutoring and just holding your kid back so they are a full year older than most kids and 18m older than the younger kids. The fact that you don’t see the difference says a lot. I think once people make up their minds they just don’t see it as gaming the system, which it is.

Right, there is a big difference between outside tutoring and classes and redshirting: outside tutoring and supplementation have been shown in studies to cause harm to other children in the classroom, to the point where educators are now trained in how to try to mitigate that harm, while redshirting has not been shown to cause any harm. So, you are correct: your tutoring and outside academic supplements are in fact quite different than redshirting. I’m glad you acknowledge the serious harm you are doing to other children by your outside academic supplements.

Also, I wasn’t talking about what other parents were doing. I was talking about what you are going to do, because you are so worried about parents doing things that supposedly cause harm to other students. I want to know what you are going to do to mitigate the harms you are causing since you are so harshly judging other parents for your (imaginary, unsupported) claims of harm.

I’ll ask you again: when are you going to move your child to an at-risk school district? When are you going to stop externally supplementing, and start lobbying the school boards against such programs? When are you going to do something that actually helps all those kids you supposedly worry about?

I know you won’t answer this. You are an utter raging hypocrite like most of DCUMs anti-redshirt posters. You know I’m right, too, which is why you are scrambling to talk about what those other parents do and not answer the questions about your own actions.

That's a bunch of smoke. You have a group of parents actively involved with their kids and another group who isn't who holds back their kids to make it easier on them. Working with your kids to make sure they are on or above target is the right thing to do as a parent. You cannot rely on the school system to do everything for every child. I am proud I taught my kids a good foundation. I'm sorry you weren't willing to spend that time with a child who equally struggled, which is why mine are surpassing yours now even though yours are two years older than mine in the same grade.

I didn’t redshirt, but as usual with anti-redshirt posters, you immediately jumped to attacking children. It is what you folks always do, especially when your hypocrisy is on full display: attack children.

We all see you for what you are.

The issue isn't the kids, it's the parents who aren't willing to put the time into them, and/or they are insistent on private and private want older kids because its easier on the school and it artificially creates spots for kids, especially siblings. There is zero hypocrisy to work with your child at home. What should I have done? Not getting my child the therapies they needed? If they struggled in an area, like reading, I should just ignore it and hold my child back. NO. I get my kids help, I help them at home and I send them on time.

Holding back a kid, let's call it what it is, isn't going to fix immature behavior. You are putting them with younger kids so they will continue to be immature for their age and not given they opportunity to have age-appropriate behaviors as they'll never be with their true age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

The discussion is about the redshirted outliers who are at least 6m from the cutoff. I think 19.5 is old to graduate personally. I can see many kids in that situation being frustrated the last year and just wanting to get out of the house. I know I did as a 17 year old senior. I can’t imagine being 2 years older and not being so ready to go away to college and have some independence.

No it's not about the outliers. It's about redshirting in general. The majority are very close to the cutoff which makes the hyperbole about 20yr old high school graduates ridiculous.

It’s about multiple 7 year olds in a kinder class.

Then move to a lower income area and move to a diverse school that better aligns with your values.

You sound like so many people pre-kids. Why don’t you actually have children before you fancy yourself an expert on this?

I mean, that PP is correct. Your best solution to this non-problem is to leave your clearly very wealthy school district and enroll in another one that better fits your values. At least if you did that, you wouldn’t be as much of a hypocrite.

My kid’s school had very few redshirted kids. It absolutely did not have individual writing and reading tutors for kids who were a little behind the state standards; the exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems. But I’m sure that you consider all of that nothing compared to the existential horror of your snowflake having to be in a class with a child six months older. Looking forward to hearing your plans for moving!

Great solution. I’m not moving from my house I bought pre kids where my kids attend a great school so I can write a post every few months bragging about “exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems.” You’re so woke? Congrats. Or YOU could move to a school that’s a better environment for your own child, but you won’t because your pretentious identity is more important to you.

Those kids are at your "great" school as well. Surprise. They just fall through the cracks. My kids grew up in those schools. You need to learn what they did, empathy. There are plenty of kids struggling at rich schools as parents at rich schools ignore their kids as well but they have less justification ask they can afford tutors and therapists but choose not to.

In no way, shape, or form do any of the anti-redshirters in this thread care whatsoever about children other than their own. They’ve said as much. You aren’t going to get them to have empathy for kids who struggle, particularly when those struggling kids have the audacity to attend the PP’s “great” school.

That’s a false assumption these older kids are struggling.

They are behind as they should be in the higher grade and aren't. And, yes, some of the ones I see are struggling. And, don't forget there are mixed classes in high school so these kids stand out even more when you have a held back junior who is not 17-18 with a freshman who is 13-14.

[Anonymous]

I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

Are you trying to justify your choices? People are concerned with others holding back their kids as it is not developmentally appropriate for the held back kids nor the other kids in the classroom. If your kids have delays, send them on time and get them help. It's not a kid issue as the kids have no say, it's a parenting issue.

There are very few good reasons to hold back a child except significant special needs. And, really, those kids should go to school to get the therapies and supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

And, you don't see an issue with a 14 year old being in HS classes with a 19 year old? That's what is happening at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

Are you trying to justify your choices? People are concerned with others holding back their kids as it is not developmentally appropriate for the held back kids nor the other kids in the classroom. If your kids have delays, send them on time and get them help. It's not a kid issue as the kids have no say, it's a parenting issue.

There are very few good reasons to hold back a child except significant special needs. And, really, those kids should go to school to get the therapies and supports.

I didn’t redshirt. I am just observing the usual vile pattern from anti-redshirt posters. It’s typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

And, you don't see an issue with a 14 year old being in HS classes with a 19 year old? That's what is happening at our school.

Suuuuuure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

And, you don't see an issue with a 14 year old being in HS classes with a 19 year old? That's what is happening at our school.

Suuuuuure.

Let me guess, you have elementary school kids. Math, Foreign Language, PE, Health Ed and electives all have Freshman through Seniors. So, a freshman will be 14 and a senior will be 18-19. They only have 2 levels of band classes, they only have two levels of choir, so what do you think they do with the advanced freshman? They put them with the seniors. There is a huge range of kids taking Algebra 2 to Calculus and they are all mixed in the same classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.