Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

And, you don't see an issue with a 14 year old being in HS classes with a 19 year old? That's what is happening at our school.

Suuuuuure.

Let me guess, you have elementary school kids. Math, Foreign Language, PE, Health Ed and electives all have Freshman through Seniors. So, a freshman will be 14 and a senior will be 18-19. They only have 2 levels of band classes, they only have two levels of choir, so what do you think they do with the advanced freshman? They put them with the seniors. There is a huge range of kids taking Algebra 2 to Calculus and they are all mixed in the same classes.

A late May redshirted kid is 19 for maybe two weeks before graduation. That’s not worth getting worked up about.

A late summer birthday is 18 the entire school year, as would be a non redshirted May birthday. No matter what you do about redshirting, you will have a 14 year old in a high school with 18 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Typed sloppily, I mean the nonredshirted May birthday is 18 before graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

Are you trying to justify your choices? People are concerned with others holding back their kids as it is not developmentally appropriate for the held back kids nor the other kids in the classroom. If your kids have delays, send them on time and get them help. It's not a kid issue as the kids have no say, it's a parenting issue.

There are very few good reasons to hold back a child except significant special needs. And, really, those kids should go to school to get the therapies and supports.

Reality check. You can’t tell from looking at a kid if they have a special need. You have no idea what factors went in to a parent’s decision to hold back a kid. You’re making an assumption that because a child appears neurotypical and healthy, that the parents have no “developmentally appropriate” need to hold back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

You're nuts if you think a September birthday kids is going to have strong feelings about starting a year later or will be some sort of an outlier. They're already the outlier as the very youngest in their grade. If we'd redshirted, she would have started K at 5 instead of 4 yo and wouldn't at all be the oldest. If we'd moved to Maryland she'd be a year behind by the cutoffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

No, the academic standards in K are not the same. I went to a public half day kindergarten program where we spent most of the year on the alphabet and held a wedding where Q married U. That's not kindergarten these days, at least not in NOVA. Kids working reading and writing, which used to be first grade content.

This acceleration pulls through high school. I'm not aware of any school offering classes beyond Calc BC when I was in high school in the 90s. Now local high schools offer several more advanced College level math classes because kids are finishing Calc BC early in high school. That's a big change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

And, you don't see an issue with a 14 year old being in HS classes with a 19 year old? That's what is happening at our school.

Suuuuuure.

Let me guess, you have elementary school kids. Math, Foreign Language, PE, Health Ed and electives all have Freshman through Seniors. So, a freshman will be 14 and a senior will be 18-19. They only have 2 levels of band classes, they only have two levels of choir, so what do you think they do with the advanced freshman? They put them with the seniors. There is a huge range of kids taking Algebra 2 to Calculus and they are all mixed in the same classes.

A late May redshirted kid is 19 for maybe two weeks before graduation. That’s not worth getting worked up about.

A late summer birthday is 18 the entire school year, as would be a non redshirted May birthday. No matter what you do about redshirting, you will have a 14 year old in a high school with 18 year olds.

Or for the first 5-6 weeks, potentially a 13 yo in school with 18 yos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

You realize that the Lucy Caulkins curriculum that I mentioned was one of the most popular choices for schools across the US a few years ago, right? There's even a NY Times podcast about it. My daughter's school was right in step with the bulk of other US schools. Perhaps you're just really out of date on what's happening in education? The curriculum has now been dropped, and I fully supported that choice, but K has moved to be even more academic. It's not about making friends, learning the alphabet, shapes, colors and counting like it used to be. It covers what used to be first grade content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think at this point people can see the anti-redshirters for what they are: aggressive hypocrites who attack little children. They always show who they are in the end. Every single time.

Who is attacking little children? Ok, you’re right. So it’s totally okay for me to hold my prek child back 2 grades so they are 8 in kinder. No problem at all. What’s the big deal?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

You're nuts if you think a September birthday kids is going to have strong feelings about starting a year later or will be some sort of an outlier. They're already the outlier as the very youngest in their grade. If we'd redshirted, she would have started K at 5 instead of 4 yo and wouldn't at all be the oldest. If we'd moved to Maryland she'd be a year behind by the cutoffs.

Reading comprehension fail. The discussion is about outliers 6m from the cut off that continue to push the starting dates further and further back. Not summer birthdays for a September cutoff. We are talking about January kids being held back from a Sep 1 cut off. They are 15m older than a kid in March who goes on time and 20m older than a kid in August who goes on time. In our school, one of those kids is now the grade bully, likely being bored and finding his peers immature. Will the other kids be ok? Yes they will but as a parent it’s not ideal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.

Where do you live??

This is what I want to know. I have three kids ranging elementary to high school and they’ve attended different schools each, and I’ve NEVER seen redshirted kids with Jan/Feb birthdays in their classes. My youngest had an April bday, but otherwise it’s been May-August birthdays for those kids.

Agreed. There was some weirdness around Covid and virtual instruction with kids starting late, but I'm otherwise unaware of anyone redshirted with a birthday earlier than June, and really it's usually July-September birthdays who are redshirted. I'm pretty sensitive to this as someone with a kid with a labor day birthday who wasn't redshirted, but there aren't a lot of kids who are more than 12 months older than her. She also has several friends with August and September birthdays who weren't redshirted.

I do think K and 1st grade teachers often have unrealistic expectations for younger students and those were really hard for my kid. My 4-5yo kindergartner was sent to the office almost daily that first month of kindergarten for pushing to get to the front of the line when lining up. The principal told her if she came back, that she'd call her parents. My kid thought that would be a reward, as she'd get a private party with the principal and her parents. Totally didn't get it.

It ended up being a really traumatic start to school with a 4-5 yo who was crying and upset about going to school every day. Kindergarten was too much seat time and the behavior expectations didn't work for her. She's always been far ahead on academics, so that was never the issue. It's was the other expectations.

Did she go to preschool? Mine went to a strict preschool that set the kids up well so the transition was no problem. I think these play based programs are part of the problem.

Yes, she was in a daycare with a formal preschool program for ages 2-3 and moved to a well respected preschool for age 4. The issue wasn't with her preparations, but with the expectations for kindergarten--a public school program in the DMV. There was an enormous amount of seat time at her desk (2+ hours at a time) and expectations that she could sit quietly and read and write independently. On the very first week of kindergarten the teacher gave all the kids lined paper, told them to stretch out their sounds and write a "personal narrative" telling her about themselves. No joke. It was part of the now defunct Lucy Caulkins curriculum--you can Google it. The whole kindergarten day was really designed for 1st or 2nd grader. There was too much sitting, too much individual work at desks, they were expected to focus on a single task for too long at a time, etc. Many of the older kids in the grade really thrived and the younger ones, including mine, were miserable and had lots of behavior issues.

Those academics are not a normal K, so not sure where you are sending your kid. But, yes, kids should be able to sit at age 5. You picked a bad school for your child, and that is the issue. It also doesn't sound like your prek or preschool prepared your child at all. The only publics that might do that would be a charter and when you knew it was a bad fit, you should have moved your kid. THat's not normal for a regular public where at least half the class or more cannot read or write.

My kid was well prepared could do the academics, even though I think they were absurd. It was the pace of the day and behavior expectations that were the problem. The kindergarten program was designed for 7 yos.

It is a well respected public school in the DMV. I bought a house and sent my kid to the zoned school. I didn't "pick" the wrong school for my kid. It wasn't a charter. It was the neighborhood school.

Then take it up with the school but that is NOT a normal K class where kids are expected to fully read and write. Most aren't reading or writing at that age which sucks for those of our kids who are. Guess your well respected school wasn't so great as you thought it was and money can buy you self-segregation from the rest of our kids but not good academics.

I don't think it's that much of an outlier. Academic expectations in K have increased dramatically from when we were kids. If I'd known this I would have thought more about redshirting rather than following the cutoffs and starting a 4 yo in kindergarten.

The academic standards for K are the same, however, upper grades are much lower. Your well-respected school was the issue and that's not a typical K curriculum so perhaps the issue was that school and you should have joined the PTA and advocated for a better curriculum. Or, given it was all rich families and many of those kids went in reading it was developmentally appropriate for that cohort.

Have you ever considered a child's feelings toward being held back?

My kid was terribly bored in elementary school. Especially the early grades as they were not academically challenging at all.

You're nuts if you think a September birthday kids is going to have strong feelings about starting a year later or will be some sort of an outlier. They're already the outlier as the very youngest in their grade. If we'd redshirted, she would have started K at 5 instead of 4 yo and wouldn't at all be the oldest. If we'd moved to Maryland she'd be a year behind by the cutoffs.

Reading comprehension fail. The discussion is about outliers 6m from the cut off that continue to push the starting dates further and further back. Not summer birthdays for a September cutoff. We are talking about January kids being held back from a Sep 1 cut off. They are 15m older than a kid in March who goes on time and 20m older than a kid in August who goes on time. In our school, one of those kids is now the grade bully, likely being bored and finding his peers immature. Will the other kids be ok? Yes they will but as a parent it’s not ideal.

Perhaps you need to follow the thread. Discussions evolve. I shared my experience with K being more academic and this hostile poster attacked me and was specifically speaking about my daughter.

[Anonymous]

Why are people acting like these outliers are a huge problem? It's rare. If it's very common at your school then you and your school are not a fit. Move, if it's public go to a private, if it's private choose another one. The school is fully aware how old these kids are. Attacking people online doesn't change anything. It's also not those kids' faults a child is behind in reading. Keep your eyes on your own paper and get the outside supports your own kid needs before slinging mud at others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

Red-shirting delays everything by a single year. Please explain how you think red-shirting leads to graduating with a bachelor's at 26. I simply must know how your mind works.

How do we go from graduation at 17 to 19 or 20? What happened to 18? The age most redshirted kids will be when they graduate? Like almost all of the other kids? I have a late May birthday and even I was 18 at HS graduation.

The discussion is about the redshirted outliers who are at least 6m from the cutoff. I think 19.5 is old to graduate personally. I can see many kids in that situation being frustrated the last year and just wanting to get out of the house. I know I did as a 17 year old senior. I can’t imagine being 2 years older and not being so ready to go away to college and have some independence.

No it's not about the outliers. It's about redshirting in general. The majority are very close to the cutoff which makes the hyperbole about 20yr old high school graduates ridiculous.

It’s about multiple 7 year olds in a kinder class.

Then move to a lower income area and move to a diverse school that better aligns with your values.

You sound like so many people pre-kids. Why don’t you actually have children before you fancy yourself an expert on this?

I mean, that PP is correct. Your best solution to this non-problem is to leave your clearly very wealthy school district and enroll in another one that better fits your values. At least if you did that, you wouldn’t be as much of a hypocrite.

My kid’s school had very few redshirted kids. It absolutely did not have individual writing and reading tutors for kids who were a little behind the state standards; the exhausted sped educators it had were busy dealing with children who were functionally illiterate in fifth grade and sixth graders with math skills below kindergarten, in addition to children with profound emotional disabilities. The school also had a very large percentage of kids who had suffered terrible abuse, homelessness, drug addiction by middle school, and other actual serious problems. But I’m sure that you consider all of that nothing compared to the existential horror of your snowflake having to be in a class with a child six months older. Looking forward to hearing your plans for moving!

I live in a very diverse school boundary with a vast HH income range, and we STILL have a lot of redshirted kids. I'm finding that the lower income redshirts didn't go to preschool at all. Stayed home with mom or grandma or a babysitter. Not to say there aren't wealthy redshirt kids at our school, there are, but they went to preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people acting like these outliers are a huge problem? It's rare. If it's very common at your school then you and your school are not a fit. Move, if it's public go to a private, if it's private choose another one. The school is fully aware how old these kids are. Attacking people online doesn't change anything. It's also not those kids' faults a child is behind in reading. Keep your eyes on your own paper and get the outside supports your own kid needs before slinging mud at others.

Because DCUM anti-redshirters are actually insane, for the most part. They would be in the amusing insane category — so entirely divorced from reality it is funny — but they tend to berate and attack little children, as you have noticed, which just makes them disgusting instead.

Normal parents do not care about these things. They just don’t.