It gets harder and harder to return to the U.S. after every trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

“As a direct result of the EPA’s laissez-faire regulatory approach, in 2019 the U.S. used over 70 agricultural pesticides that were banned in the European Union, amounting to 322 million pounds used each year. That means over a quarter of all U.S. agricultural pesticide use was from pesticides that all EU member states have prohibited. And with more recent bans on pesticides like chlorothalonil and the EU’s new farm-to-fork strategy which aims to cut pesticide use in half by 2030, that regulatory disparity is growing significantly by the year.
It is not just Europe that is embracing these prohibitions. The U.S. uses 26 and 40 million pounds of pesticides that Brazil and China have banned or are phasing out, respectively. India is currently considering banning 27 highly hazardous pesticides, like atrazine, 2,4-D, and acephate, which the U.S. uses over 100 million pounds of each year. Atrazine is a known endocrine disruptor linked to fertility problems; 2,4-D is associated with certain cancers and birth defects in children; and acephate is a known neurotoxin in the same class of chemicals as those developed for use as nerve agents in World War II.”

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-the-epas-lax-regulation-of-dangerous-pesticides-is-hurting-public-health-and-the-us-economy/

If you read that article, we are just about the only country permitting more questionable pesticides, while other countries are tightening their use. Plus there is a far greater abundance and spectrum of emulsifiers (to preserve foods) and artificial sweeteners in play in the US. Not to mention, we have very low standards for raising animals for meat/dairy production.

And the cherry on top is the added sugar and other additives that get added into the food supply…and sure, individuals can avoid to a certain extent lower quality processed foods, but that is what is getting served up in food cafeterias around the country to our children, from pre-k through college.

[Anonymous]

People, it’s not that complicated.

You can get a really nice bento sent in a country like Japan for $8 that’s got nice piece of grilled fish, rice, veggies, and some pickled stuff for $6. Portions not stingy. Meanwhile garbage food like a McDonald’s meal will run you $15+ now.


There’s just so, sooooooooo many options from $1-20 in Asia that are high quality good eatin’ compared to here where $20 is now barely getting you the lowest of low quality for something as basic as burgers and pizzas.

[Anonymous]

This is literally train station fast food in Tokyo, the most expensive city in Japan:

Friggin Waygu rice boxes for below $10. Seafood boxes for under $15. Meanwhile, what are you gonna get in the US at the train station? Disgusting subway? Dunkin’ Donuts? Einstein bros? No wonder Americans are so obese. The food quality is horrible and it is expensive. Even after adjusting for PPP, US food is horribly expensive for terrible quality food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What country was so magical that it prompted you to post? Truly curious.

Japan. South Korea. Thailand. Singapore.

Zero tipping. Cheap healthcare. Zero gun deaths on the news in Singapore, South Korea, and Japan. Amazing quality food in all of them. Public infrastructure that’s about 80 years more advanced than the U.S. in SK, Singapore, and Japan.

Ah, you'll end up not liking those countries and will want to come back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

The greater the demand for high quality food, the cheaper it will become. So if you want it, then be part of the demand. Everyone on this forum can easily afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

+1. My perspective living as an expat who was definitely UMC on the local economy in Austria is that produce was fresh, affordable, and accessible. That green leaf lettuce you're paying $3-$4 here in the US was .99 Euro cents in Austria. My mother remarked on it every time she visited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

The greater the demand for high quality food, the cheaper it will become. So if you want it, then be part of the demand. Everyone on this forum can easily afford it.

You are glaringly out of touch. I live in a city where people barely have access to a grocery store near their house when they also can't afford a car, let alone the ability to pay for high quality foods on a meager income. You are sticking your head in the sand or under your fancy CSA crate. You are also willfully ignorant of basic, well documented and described differences in regulation of food additives and farming requirements in the US vs Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

+1. My perspective living as an expat who was definitely UMC on the local economy in Austria is that produce was fresh, affordable, and accessible. That green leaf lettuce you're paying $3-$4 here in the US was .99 Euro cents in Austria. My mother remarked on it every time she visited.

Yep and we noticed as well with meats and cheeses. Better quality for less.

There should be public outcry over the fact that FDA doesn't require lead testing on children's food products in the US!!! Literally allowing harm to our children!

"There is no federal requirement to test for lead in food made domestically or imported into the United States."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/health/lead-poisoning-applesauce-pouches.html

Contrast that to the EU:
The EU regulation on setting maximum levels for certain contaminants in foodstuffs, sets limits for lead in food. These limits vary from 0.020 mg/kg in milk and infant formulae to 1.5 mg/kg in bivalve molluscs (e.g. oysters, mussels, scallops and clams).

https://echa.europa.eu/hot-topics/lead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

The greater the demand for high quality food, the cheaper it will become. So if you want it, then be part of the demand. Everyone on this forum can easily afford it.

You are glaringly out of touch. I live in a city where people barely have access to a grocery store near their house when they also can't afford a car, let alone the ability to pay for high quality foods on a meager income. You are sticking your head in the sand or under your fancy CSA crate. You are also willfully ignorant of basic, well documented and described differences in regulation of food additives and farming requirements in the US vs Europe.

Maybe if they stopped shoplifting, then they could have a grocery store nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give some examples of how the food in America is supposedly so much worse? I have travelled and lived abroad and overall I just don’t see that. We have a lot of choice in the US that in many ways makes it easier to have good food. I don’t choose to eat at places like McDonald’s. Certainly some countries have better options for certain things — eg Irish butter versus American butter, Chilean mollusks versus American. But for instance Chile is so meat/fish focused it’s hard to find nice salads and vegetables. That’s true in many countries in Europe as well. In many countries it’s hard to find nice fresh dairy. I’ve been to some countries where the restaurant food was even more salty than American restaurant food, which amazed me as I find American restaurant food way too salty.
I do think that because other countries have fewer choices for food they tend to serve more stuff that is local and in season. But it’s pretty easy to eat that way here too, if you give up variety.

Different issue but I’m also not impressed with OP being impressed by Singapore and Thailand. That’s like trump raving about the airports in Dubai. That efficiency is built in the back of a lot of misery. No thank you.

At least in Europe, it definitely seemed fresh fruit and veggies were far more abundant. Small fridges as folks buy fresh more frequently. Read box ingredients and there are fewer fillers in foods. The amount of crap fillers in food in the US makes me angry. Yes you can get cheap products but look at what happened recently with children getting lead poisoning from cinnamon applesauce sold at dollar stores in the US (through brands that used a factory in Equador).

Driving through France, rest stops had fresh prepared foods that included a carving station. It was jarringly different.

A lot of what you experience is about where you live in the US vs living in the US. I grew up in a small town in flyover country, and despite being poor, I had incredible food. I didn't even realize that most of the US was eating mealy, starchy tomatoes and carrots that were basically shelf stable.

If you live far away from the places where food is produced, they alter the veggies etc so that they can endure the trip to your grocery stores and the lont wait til they are consumed.

In the DMV, you can sign up for CSAs or shop at farmers markets.

I used to question whether I was meant to live in the US. Then I realized that a lot of things I disliked about my life were choices I had made or failed to make. So I created a different lifestyle and stayed in the US and have a much better life here than the one I likely would have had in Europe.

CSAs and farmers markets are very expensive though. I live in a city and grew up in the burbs and have access to produce, grew up in an Italian family where delicious food is worshipped. But still the food in Europe like cheeses had fewer preservatives for a lower price point. Sure, you can eat fantastic food in the US if you are well off or perhaps live in flyover country near some decent farms for a *handful* of items. But in Europe, you can eat fantastic food even if you're not well off AND even the more "processed" food has fewer fillers. Hello shredded Kraft Parmesan cheese made from wood fiber because you cant buy blocks of parm like the UMC can. Did you see the comment re: lead in children's cinnamon pouches? That is a current CDC alert happening right now, identified because of a sudden rise in children having high lead levels.

I've traveled by car through a lot of the US, but tell me where a carving station with fresh prepped food in is a routine thing at rest stops?

I have a bit of a different perspective on Europe because most of my family lives in Europe and is not well off. I can say with total confidence that the food I eat in the US is of higher quality than the food they eat in their well-off European country, because I'm UMC and they are working class. Unfortunately, cheap, processed food is prevalent in the world. If anything, Americans are more critical of their food choices and other nations accept their choices as good. Take Japan's view of Ramen noodle soup as an example. It's accepted as good, in part because it staved off famine at a time when survival was the main goal. But it's objectively not that nutritious. Americans tend to be very critical of America when compared to how other countries discuss their own nations.

Re pop up stands at rest stops, I imagine most state workers would chase them off. That has more to do with bureaucracy than availability. I often find road side stands and buy fresh produce, honey, bbq. It's prevalent in places where the economics make sense for the vendors. The more expensive the area, the less the economics make sense.

Personally, I get my meat from a butcher that only stocks high quality meat. I get my veggies from a local farm that has a market. Sometimes I use meal kits and the food isn't as high quality but is generally good.

My relatives in Europe buy veggies from places like Lidl, and they are comparable to what you'd get from Giant. They buy every day because their fridges are tiny, and as a result they engage in a lot more impulse buying of cakes and pastries. Obesity and weight problems are rising in Europe. Meanwhile, I've never struggled with my weight here in the US. Yes, a lot if this is due to class and income. But like I said, my family in Europe is working class.

You can buy meat and cheese from local or artisan dairy places. There is a large market for this kind of stuff and you can absolutely find it. But I think what you're really saying is that you wish that the dominant culture in the US was one that prioritized high quality food, and you perceive that this is the case in Europe. I think that isn't true at the working class level, the same as the US. But it is true that a European UMC might be more likely than an American UMC to prioritize quality food.

Our current food policies were made immediately after the depression and were intended to make it so that people in the US never experience hunger again. The goal is noble, even if there are unintended side effects. I think when you look at the US through the eyes of the people who tried to make it better, you might end up with more empathy and understanding of how we got to our current state. And I'd gently recommend that you can either leave or stay, but if you stay, start living the life you want to have. You might have more common ground with flyover people, traditionalists, etc than you think, because what you're saying is that you want a greater connection to nature and the earth.

As someone who shops cheap, European quality for cheap food goods is vastly better than US quality for cheap food goods specifically because of better regulation in Europe on fillers and additives. I don't care that people in the US who have $$ can eat high quality, the point is what quality of cheap goods people without money can get. And yes, it's better there.

The greater the demand for high quality food, the cheaper it will become. So if you want it, then be part of the demand. Everyone on this forum can easily afford it.

You are glaringly out of touch. I live in a city where people barely have access to a grocery store near their house when they also can't afford a car, let alone the ability to pay for high quality foods on a meager income. You are sticking your head in the sand or under your fancy CSA crate. You are also willfully ignorant of basic, well documented and described differences in regulation of food additives and farming requirements in the US vs Europe.

Most of America's poor doesn't live in the cities, though. They live in areas like Mississippi and Appalachia, where land is cheap, plentiful, and fertile. And, they have access to the kind of produce that most people in cities will never taste in their lives. This isn't an issue about the US versus the French countryside. This is about the produce markets in cities. If you want high quality produce in cities, it will 1) cost more bc they have to transport thin skinned, delicate yet high quality fruits and veggies, and sell them immediately bc they are highly perishable. Or, 2) sell lower quality produce specifically bred to be hearty, thicker skinned, and less perishable.

CSAs actually bring down the costs by ensuing a customer base. Yes we have issues with pesticides, etc. Maybe convince more people to invest in things like CSAs or get non profits to invest in local farms vs encouraging people to bring Hamburger Helper to food banks. We are not hopeless as a nation, we can do better if we focus on improving vs despairing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People, it’s not that complicated.

You can get a really nice bento sent in a country like Japan for $8 that’s got nice piece of grilled fish, rice, veggies, and some pickled stuff for $6. Portions not stingy. Meanwhile garbage food like a McDonald’s meal will run you $15+ now.


There’s just so, sooooooooo many options from $1-20 in Asia that are high quality good eatin’ compared to here where $20 is now barely getting you the lowest of low quality for something as basic as burgers and pizzas.

How do some people who travel not understand exchange rates? You realise the same bento box would have cost you $14 back in 2011. Exchange rates move. The US dollar is strong compared to the yen.

You can only judge whether food is cheap in a country by comparing it to the average wage in that country. The average annual income in the US is $71,000. In Japan, it is $41,000. In Thailand, it is $3,700. Figure out how affordable your cheap meal is for people who live and earn money in the country you are traveling in, not for tourists loaded up with foreign currency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is literally train station fast food in Tokyo, the most expensive city in Japan:

Friggin Waygu rice boxes for below $10. Seafood boxes for under $15. Meanwhile, what are you gonna get in the US at the train station? Disgusting subway? Dunkin’ Donuts? Einstein bros? No wonder Americans are so obese. The food quality is horrible and it is expensive. Even after adjusting for PPP, US food is horribly expensive for terrible quality food.

In America, most people will choose Einstein Bros or Subway anyway- regardless of the cost difference. They don’t buy Waygu rice or seafood boxes. If there was sufficient demand, these options would already exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, it’s not that complicated.

You can get a really nice bento sent in a country like Japan for $8 that’s got nice piece of grilled fish, rice, veggies, and some pickled stuff for $6. Portions not stingy. Meanwhile garbage food like a McDonald’s meal will run you $15+ now.


There’s just so, sooooooooo many options from $1-20 in Asia that are high quality good eatin’ compared to here where $20 is now barely getting you the lowest of low quality for something as basic as burgers and pizzas.

How do some people who travel not understand exchange rates? You realise the same bento box would have cost you $14 back in 2011. Exchange rates move. The US dollar is strong compared to the yen.

You can only judge whether food is cheap in a country by comparing it to the average wage in that country. The average annual income in the US is $71,000. In Japan, it is $41,000. In Thailand, it is $3,700. Figure out how affordable your cheap meal is for people who live and earn money in the country you are traveling in, not for tourists loaded up with foreign currency.

Even after accounting for exchange rates, it is still far cheaper for a Japanese person to eat out in Japan, or for a Thai person earning Thai baht to eat out in Thailand. Food abroad is so, soooo much better..

[Anonymous]

Anyone who doesn't believe US food sucks v rest of world is in denial. That is all.

The biggest factor among many is that culturally food matters in other countries more than in US. As simple as this fact - in Asia and Europe and Islands and LAtAm, people take meals seriously. Here in the US, most people do not. Lunch is school for example is grossness for our kids. In other countries adults would be eating better having school food than adult food in the US!!!

My kid in US knows chicken tenders, pizza and spaghetti. Take any other country and their kid will eat a whole lot more variety and better. This is 100% true.