Being summoned back to the office four days a week and anxious/sick over it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, you people are mean. Cozy pants, candles, soup, and picking up kids at actual pick-up time sound amazing.

- Teacher who goes in every day

+1 me too

My husband can work from home most days. It makes combining work and family more feasible. Especially when you’re a two earner family at around $130 K.

This is what people mean when they talk about an aggressively anti family culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the market will adjust.
Case in point - I am currently hybrid flex. I have 2 job offers. One requires 3 specific days in office and one is also hybrid flex. I straight up turned down the one with more rigidity (and told them the reason) in favor of the one that is just as flex as my own.
Desirable candidates will always have sway and companies are realizing it’s up there with salary and sometimes in fact you can pay people less to let them choose.
Had a good conversation about it with the co that mandates and they were quite thoughtful about it. Imo it’s a cultural red flag that a. A company needs to oversee in this way and b. That they hire people who need that kind of oversight to be productive.
Your job should be driven by workload not by hours. End of story

The rigidity of the in-person schedule is so that people are actually together in person on the same days to reap the benefits of being together. To me it’s a red flag that a company offers people a flexible hybrid schedule. That means they just want to say they have ass in chairs some of the time and don’t have any real clear idea why they are doing it. If you’re not there at the same time as others, kind of no point.

This issue and how you feel about it seems very driven by the type of work you do. Comments about workload and productivity speak to individual contributors who don’t need to work much with others and don’t tend to manage people and relationships don’t matter as much. Anyone who is sitting on zoom all day talking to people or in meetings does not want to WFH the rest of their life because it’s hell on earth.

I zoom all day and hell on earth is doing it from the office.
Rto only works for companies that have one ‘branch’

I am the PP. We have 8 locations in the region. We sometimes zoom for those meetings across locations or we drive and meet at one. The cross location zoom meetings? Flatter, lower engagement, people very clearly not paying attention or doing other tasks. And we have a camera on policy. Energy is completely different when everyone is in a room. We have addressed this with staff and it only helps so much.

Bringing in jobs where none of the work can be done in person regardless is not the same set of circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Remote works best when everyone is doing it and has the same handicap.

In an environment where some work in person, the remote people are forgotten about and are very stagnant in terms of building relationships, opportunities, and career growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remote works best when everyone is doing it and has the same handicap.

In an environment where some work in person, the remote people are forgotten about and are very stagnant in terms of building relationships, opportunities, and career growth.

But maybe they’re ok with that.
Bear in mind that for many - esp moms - there’s a world where they stop working altogether. Stagnating in a remote job might be just fine for those people.
Insisting on in person is like going back in time. This is why women are depressed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remote works best when everyone is doing it and has the same handicap.

In an environment where some work in person, the remote people are forgotten about and are very stagnant in terms of building relationships, opportunities, and career growth.

But maybe they’re ok with that.
Bear in mind that for many - esp moms - there’s a world where they stop working altogether. Stagnating in a remote job might be just fine for those people.
Insisting on in person is like going back in time. This is why women are depressed

What is the company’s obligation to anyone though? They want to grow and develop people and get the best out of them. Other people pick up the slack while someone stagnates at home. Is it their obligation to pay you full-time while you sit home walking the dog and making soup and watching your kids in the afternoon? And meanwhile the person who is physically there is seen and felt and heard and gets an extra task?

I don’t think so. Others clearly don’t agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

So if you had a disabled colleague who worked from home most of the time because that is how she best was able to manage her disability, you'd freeze her out? Wow.

Before Covid my office was in person 5 days, we had one blind woman with a seeing eye dog and a number of features on her computer that allowed her to do her job seamlessly, another guy in a wheelchair who had no need for any accommodations beyond a higher desk. Now we have a number of people who have developed anxiety over being together and it is significantly more difficult to accommodate them than it was their physically disabled peers. Our physically disabled colleagues continue to be fully capable of working in an office and seem fine with being there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since COVID, I have worked from home and it's been wonderful. I'm super productive - and also cozy at home. I am a huge introvert and I savor not having to "face" the world. And, a lot of my work is independent anyway. I wear my soft pants, I light a candle next to my desk, I can dash out to pick up my kids, I have soup simmering ... and I get a TON DONE.

We go back in person next week and I feel legit sick to my stomach. I wake up at 4am sweaty and panicked. The commute sucks. The rows of cubicles blow. The entire vibe is just...not home. I hate it and it's making me feel ill. Like the work but hate office culture. I don't know what to do.

The bolded, plus laundry, a quick trip to grocery store, etc, are exactly why so many companies are requiring RTO.

Why should employees want to give that much of their time to employers? The pandemic allowed people to see just how much of their lives were being sucked away by our gross, workaholic, capitalist system. A system that is designed to get the maximum amount of labor out of them while paying them the least amount they can possibly pay them for it. Why should the employees do more for these companies? They don't deserve all your time. None of us should have to give up such a large majority of our time working and commuting. Capitalism is a trap and most of you have Stockholm Syndrome. I'm not advocating for communism or socialism, but something has to give. The way we do it here in America is broken.

If you feel that way you should definitely work for a nonprofit or some entity that isn’t part of our capitalist system, maybe Western Europe would be a better fit? Lower standard of living but certainly less pressure to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

So if you had a disabled colleague who worked from home most of the time because that is how she best was able to manage her disability, you'd freeze her out? Wow.

Before Covid my office was in person 5 days, we had one blind woman with a seeing eye dog and a number of features on her computer that allowed her to do her job seamlessly, another guy in a wheelchair who had no need for any accommodations beyond a higher desk. Now we have a number of people who have developed anxiety over being together and it is significantly more difficult to accommodate them than it was their physically disabled peers. Our physically disabled colleagues continue to be fully capable of working in an office and seem fine with being there.

How did you accommodate your colleagues with dog allergies then? I am so allergic there is no accommodation that allows me to share space with a dog and continue breathing.

[Anonymous]

I'm fine with remote work with mandated childcare (even for ES kids) and core hours. But many people are definitely taking advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

So if you had a disabled colleague who worked from home most of the time because that is how she best was able to manage her disability, you'd freeze her out? Wow.

Before Covid my office was in person 5 days, we had one blind woman with a seeing eye dog and a number of features on her computer that allowed her to do her job seamlessly, another guy in a wheelchair who had no need for any accommodations beyond a higher desk. Now we have a number of people who have developed anxiety over being together and it is significantly more difficult to accommodate them than it was their physically disabled peers. Our physically disabled colleagues continue to be fully capable of working in an office and seem fine with being there.

How did you accommodate your colleagues with dog allergies then? I am so allergic there is no accommodation that allows me to share space with a dog and continue breathing.

We don’t have anyone with a dog allergy, I’m sure there are workplaces that figured this out before though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

So if you had a disabled colleague who worked from home most of the time because that is how she best was able to manage her disability, you'd freeze her out? Wow.

Before Covid my office was in person 5 days, we had one blind woman with a seeing eye dog and a number of features on her computer that allowed her to do her job seamlessly, another guy in a wheelchair who had no need for any accommodations beyond a higher desk. Now we have a number of people who have developed anxiety over being together and it is significantly more difficult to accommodate them than it was their physically disabled peers. Our physically disabled colleagues continue to be fully capable of working in an office and seem fine with being there.

How did you accommodate your colleagues with dog allergies then? I am so allergic there is no accommodation that allows me to share space with a dog and continue breathing.

We don’t have anyone with a dog allergy, I’m sure there are workplaces that figured this out before though.

We did! The person with the guide dog and the person with the allergies were told to work in-office in different days. So they each worked two days one week, three days the next week, on alternating schedules. Their offices were on different sides of the suite, and we had two entrances available, and we paid extra for a deep clean in between their “shifts”.

This lasted for about a week until the person with the allergies said he no longer needed the accommodation. It was weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went back in work in person 5 days a week in Prior job remote three years.

My new job I started same time as another person who is hybrid. Only 3 days in office. Which means 40 percent of time his chair is empty. His learning curve is so slow. People don’t go to him for much as why bother the chair is empty most days. He also knows less people. He asks me who does what a lot.

Recently he asked about promotion. Was told since all people are not hybrid he will have to come to work five days a week. It was like he was hit with a cold pail of water.

His problem, or my problem or her problem whatever case is. I stopped doing any zoom or on line meetings or even outlook meetings with remote people. I only meet in person. The more people do that the harder it gets to do remote.

This is hilarious. Why do you assume people want to meet with you so badly? Also in most offices one person can’t just unilaterally decide they won’t meet over zoom. Don’t you have colleagues at other locations or do you work for some kind of local small business.

Agreed. Refusing to meet with someone during your work hours because you prefer in person would be seen as really unprofessional in my workplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the market will adjust.
Case in point - I am currently hybrid flex. I have 2 job offers. One requires 3 specific days in office and one is also hybrid flex. I straight up turned down the one with more rigidity (and told them the reason) in favor of the one that is just as flex as my own.
Desirable candidates will always have sway and companies are realizing it’s up there with salary and sometimes in fact you can pay people less to let them choose.
Had a good conversation about it with the co that mandates and they were quite thoughtful about it. Imo it’s a cultural red flag that a. A company needs to oversee in this way and b. That they hire people who need that kind of oversight to be productive.
Your job should be driven by workload not by hours. End of story

The rigidity of the in-person schedule is so that people are actually together in person on the same days to reap the benefits of being together. To me it’s a red flag that a company offers people a flexible hybrid schedule. That means they just want to say they have ass in chairs some of the time and don’t have any real clear idea why they are doing it. If you’re not there at the same time as others, kind of no point.

This issue and how you feel about it seems very driven by the type of work you do. Comments about workload and productivity speak to individual contributors who don’t need to work much with others and don’t tend to manage people and relationships don’t matter as much. Anyone who is sitting on zoom all day talking to people or in meetings does not want to WFH the rest of their life because it’s hell on earth.

I zoom all day and hell on earth is doing it from the office.
Rto only works for companies that have one ‘branch’

THIS. Lately I am spending 50-80% of my days in office on Zoom with people who are not in the office (external partners and colleagues at other sites, so even calling everyone back 100% would only reduce this a bit). It really is incredibly stupid.

[Anonymous]

Introverts don't prefer being alone. Stop using that as an excuse.

[Anonymous]

All these people pretending they are working every second in the office are full of it. They are wasting just as much time on long lunches and water cooler talk.