Replicating ATS success — what are exact differences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the demographics of ATS are somewhat unique. They probably have the highest % of Asian students out of any ES in Arlington (nearly 26%). When looking at the other choice options Montessori has an 11% Asian population, Claremont is 2.9%, Campbell is 8.4%.

I think that is likely a very different population than most neighborhood schools as well. The populations of the schools are demographically different. You can't ignore that.

I realize this comes off as a pretty stereotypical argument, but you can't ignore cultural differences regarding education when looking at the population and success of a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

Anyone care to answer these questions? Because this is the secret sauce.

yes, my kid has a lot of unexcused absences but is on an IEP so it's a consequence of a health issue.
my other child was bullied at ATS and it was just flat stopped, not denied like a neighborhood school. Have no idea what the parents did.
Yes, parent-teacher conferences are not mandatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry. The only possible answer for ATS’s success is that really smart parents chose ATS. Closing the achievement gap forever remains a unicorn because poor kids don’t have involved parents. Let’s just stop trying and give everyone a trophy so they don’t feel bad about themselves and call it day.

We need to just close ATS because it makes everyone else feel bad.

equity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:would like to know if getting tutors is as common in other places as it is here. when I speak with friends who live outside of the area they are floored when I mention tutors in grade school. are kids at ATS using tutors or is it more commonly found with the other elementary schools?

ATS provided 1:1 tutoring to my transfer child who was a letter grade behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

There are plenty of people trying to get in, there are not enough slots. We shouldn't have to be motivated to enter the lottery, this is how all the elementary schools should be ran.

What about those of us who are happy at our school, don’t agree with how ATS is run or don’t think it’s a good fit for our kid? I don’t want my Arlington elementary school to become ATS!

We have older elementary neighbors and friends whose kids go to APS, so I am not just basing my opinion off of DCUM threads and website copy.

Genuinely curious:
What would you have done if all APS schools were "run like ATS?"
What specifically do you not like about how ATS is run?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

More notably, ;just because you're poor doesn't mean you're NOT involved. Enough with this stuff. Schools can't control what the parents are going to do or are able to do. Let's focus on what schools can do regardless of the parents - because kids can succeed, period.

No one’s saying poor parents can’t be involved. ATS has low SES families that thrive.

(And FWIW, not everyone at TJHSST is wealthy either.)

The ED families at ATS got there through the preschool program at ATS, so they have an educational foundation and parental commitment not all kids do.

If you want every neighborhood school to include preschool, great. I'm all for that. And I support it to the extent of thinking that if doing so means putting all the fifth graders in trailers, I'm fine with that, too.

Yes. I pointed out the significance of VPI feeding directly into ATS as opposed to our other schools with high FRL/ELLs that don't. Those schools have far more kids starting farther behind. I support more preschool (not universal free pre-K) but I also don't want preK to become kindergarten and kindergarten become first grade, etc. That's what's happened over the years. Kindergarten is far from the half-day, play, learn your abc's and count to ten that it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

ATS parent here of a 3rd grader who doesn’t go to conferences because the teachers send so many individualized reports home. I’m a single parent and can’t always make the conferences with work and another kido. But it doesn’t even matter because from week one I hear exactly how my child is doing and what is happening with them each and every week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

More notably, ;just because you're poor doesn't mean you're NOT involved. Enough with this stuff. Schools can't control what the parents are going to do or are able to do. Let's focus on what schools can do regardless of the parents - because kids can succeed, period.

No one’s saying poor parents can’t be involved. ATS has low SES families that thrive.

(And FWIW, not everyone at TJHSST is wealthy either.)

The ED families at ATS got there through the preschool program at ATS, so they have an educational foundation and parental commitment not all kids do.

If you want every neighborhood school to include preschool, great. I'm all for that. And I support it to the extent of thinking that if doing so means putting all the fifth graders in trailers, I'm fine with that, too.

Yes. I pointed out the significance of VPI feeding directly into ATS as opposed to our other schools with high FRL/ELLs that don't. Those schools have far more kids starting farther behind. I support more preschool (not universal free pre-K) but I also don't want preK to become kindergarten and kindergarten become first grade, etc. That's what's happened over the years. Kindergarten is far from the half-day, play, learn your abc's and count to ten that it used to be.

This year the bulk of Claremont's incoming class came from VPI. It will be interesting to see how that impacts things in a few years (Claremont added an additional VPI class). Essentially the entire Spanish population of Claremont came from VPI this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:would like to know if getting tutors is as common in other places as it is here. when I speak with friends who live outside of the area they are floored when I mention tutors in grade school. are kids at ATS using tutors or is it more commonly found with the other elementary schools?

ATS provided 1:1 tutoring to my transfer child who was a letter grade behind.

This is amazing! I wish our elementary school had this as an option. We have to pay an outside tutor. I wish we would have considered ATS but wanted immersion at the time. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

More notably, ;just because you're poor doesn't mean you're NOT involved. Enough with this stuff. Schools can't control what the parents are going to do or are able to do. Let's focus on what schools can do regardless of the parents - because kids can succeed, period.

No one’s saying poor parents can’t be involved. ATS has low SES families that thrive.

(And FWIW, not everyone at TJHSST is wealthy either.)

The ED families at ATS got there through the preschool program at ATS, so they have an educational foundation and parental commitment not all kids do.

If you want every neighborhood school to include preschool, great. I'm all for that. And I support it to the extent of thinking that if doing so means putting all the fifth graders in trailers, I'm fine with that, too.

Yes. I pointed out the significance of VPI feeding directly into ATS as opposed to our other schools with high FRL/ELLs that don't. Those schools have far more kids starting farther behind. I support more preschool (not universal free pre-K) but I also don't want preK to become kindergarten and kindergarten become first grade, etc. That's what's happened over the years. Kindergarten is far from the half-day, play, learn your abc's and count to ten that it used to be.

This is already happening. Preschool is what K used to be and K is now what 1st was like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

ATS parent here of a 3rd grader who doesn’t go to conferences because the teachers send so many individualized reports home. I’m a single parent and can’t always make the conferences with work and another kido. But it doesn’t even matter because from week one I hear exactly how my child is doing and what is happening with them each and every week.

ATS parent here. Yep there are definitely parents who don’t sign up for conferences and those who don’t show up. Not sure the reason but perhaps it is because a lot of the parents don’t have time and trust they ATS is doing what they can to educate their child. Not everyone shows up to back to school night either. Around half of the parents with kids in my second grader’s class showed up to Back to School Night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our neighbors left ATS because they said it was not a good school for their kid who had special needs.

Neighborhood schools ( not all, but many) do a better job with that.

Right. Because ATS is a choice school.

Because it's a self selecting group, that's about 75% of the success right there.

More than 75% I think. Probably 90%. There are some things that can be replicated, but you aren’t going to be able to fix the main ingredient for ATS’s success in narrowing the achievement gap.

If self-selection is the achievement gap fixer, why don't the other choice programs have the same effect?

Yes, and not just other choice programs. The highly educated wealthy parents self selected, too, by buying into the elementary schools in northernmost Arlington.

Yet, I believe all those schools do have an achievement gap for their very few kids who do not fall into the well resourced parent category. There are also gaps for SN kids when I last checked, and ethnic ones as well.
They should have zero problems closing their gaps for those few students, why don't they or can't they?

Just because you’re wealthy doesn’t mean you’re involved. The number of parents in NA schools who didn’t know their child was struggling with reading or math till the later grades is shocking. Like HOW DIDN’T YOU KNOW?

You don’t need a teacher’s written report to know if your child is struggling. Do you not read with your child at home? Or talk about math concepts?

More notably, ;just because you're poor doesn't mean you're NOT involved. Enough with this stuff. Schools can't control what the parents are going to do or are able to do. Let's focus on what schools can do regardless of the parents - because kids can succeed, period.

No one’s saying poor parents can’t be involved. ATS has low SES families that thrive.

(And FWIW, not everyone at TJHSST is wealthy either.)

The ED families at ATS got there through the preschool program at ATS, so they have an educational foundation and parental commitment not all kids do.

If you want every neighborhood school to include preschool, great. I'm all for that. And I support it to the extent of thinking that if doing so means putting all the fifth graders in trailers, I'm fine with that, too.

Yes. I pointed out the significance of VPI feeding directly into ATS as opposed to our other schools with high FRL/ELLs that don't. Those schools have far more kids starting farther behind. I support more preschool (not universal free pre-K) but I also don't want preK to become kindergarten and kindergarten become first grade, etc. That's what's happened over the years. Kindergarten is far from the half-day, play, learn your abc's and count to ten that it used to be.

I see. So you want the students enrolled in VPI, all whom are underprivileged, to remain behind, because “you don’t want prek to become kindergarten” which is presumably what you believe is happening at ATS.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, so maybe I was wrong about most ATS parents attending P-T conferences.

Not one person answered number 3 (the most important IMO).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:would like to know if getting tutors is as common in other places as it is here. when I speak with friends who live outside of the area they are floored when I mention tutors in grade school. are kids at ATS using tutors or is it more commonly found with the other elementary schools?

ATS provided 1:1 tutoring to my transfer child who was a letter grade behind.

ATS provided that tutoring??? I’ve never heard of a school doing that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One big difference is parents who are involved and motivated enough to seek a slot at ATS. Your principal can’t do anything about that one.

Sure but that can’t be only factor?

It’s the largest contributing factor. Like 90% of the pie.

OK. Clearly the ATS parents want the credit for their kids' and their school's success. So, yes, absolutely, it is entirely due to the parents who put in for the lottery and accept the slots. Entirely. Not 90%. Because without these specific fabulous parents being involved, the administration might implement instructional changes that they make the other neighborhood schools do. So, KUDOS to you parents!!!

Are you reading the same thread? ATS parents are saying other schools could do more of what ATS is doing. Parental involvement matters but parents are choosing ATS because what they are doing works. ATS deserves the credit and I don't blame parents for lining up to go to ATS. PP is right that parents put in what the school expects of them. It harder than ever in APS to know how your kid is doing. Schoolwork rarely sent home, homework packets depend on the school, grading is usually a cut and paste affair and you're not sure if the comments about "johnny" apply to your "Jenny". At least APS is finally figuring out how to teach kids to read but ATS was doing that for decades.

They claim ATS' success is 90% due to the self-selection by parents. That makes the parents responsible for the success.
I fully agree that APS should be making all of our ES more like ATS. But I'm tired of people crediting the bulk of its success on parents' selection. ATS works well for most students. Period. Not because their parents chose the program.

Does ATS have kids with a lot of unexcused absences?

Does ATS have parents who don’t EVER show up to parent-teacher conferences?

When a child is combative at ATS, what happens when that child’s parents shrug their shoulders?

Anyone care to answer these questions? Because this is the secret sauce.

yes, my kid has a lot of unexcused absences but is on an IEP so it's a consequence of a health issue.
my other child was bullied at ATS and it was just flat stopped, not denied like a neighborhood school. Have no idea what the parents did.
Yes, parent-teacher conferences are not mandatory.

You know what type of unexcused absences they’re referring to. Not the health-related ones. She means the people who just don’t bother showing up to school half the time.