Supreme Court Is Asked to Hear a New Admissions Case on Race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

Then go ahead and advocate that geometry in 8th is a prerequisite. But right now it's not, and it never has been except in the final years of the prior admissions process when it was a de facto requirement - nearly 95% of each incoming class was in geometry or above according to the Admissions Office.

I hope you are lying. 95% of the students take Geometry in 9th grade at TJ?
I bet our "gifted" kids can do way better than that.
I remember many middle schoolers who participated in the "math olympiad" already mastered geometry and other advanced math. And, I don't think they all "gifted" and many of them were rejected by TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

Then go ahead and advocate that geometry in 8th is a prerequisite. But right now it's not, and it never has been except in the final years of the prior admissions process when it was a de facto requirement - nearly 95% of each incoming class was in geometry or above according to the Admissions Office.

I hope you are lying. 95% of the students take Geometry in 9th grade at TJ?
I bet our "gifted" kids can do way better than that.
I remember many middle schoolers who participated in the "math olympiad" already mastered geometry and other advanced math. And, I don't think they all "gifted" and many of them were rejected by TJ.

No - what I said was...

In the years immediately prior to the admissions changes...

.... nearly 95% of each incoming class at TJ....

... were in Geometry or above - and many were indeed above....

... in 8th grade.

Significant work is required on reading comprehension skills and if you're trying to be a jerk, language barriers are no excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

Being a full grade level ahead of your peers in a subject area? Sure. Why wouldn't it be?

When you look at the gigantic number of students who are in GT/AAP programs anymore, the definition of "gifted" slipped a long time ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

There is a lot more to STEM than math.

Math is the foundation of STEM. If you are not good at Math, it is hard to do well in science and engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

Being a full grade level ahead of your peers in a subject area? Sure. Why wouldn't it be?

When you look at the gigantic number of students who are in GT/AAP programs anymore, the definition of "gifted" slipped a long time ago.

No way. Study geometry in 9th grade is not impressive. You mean geometry in 10th grade is the norm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

Then go ahead and advocate that geometry in 8th is a prerequisite. But right now it's not, and it never has been except in the final years of the prior admissions process when it was a de facto requirement - nearly 95% of each incoming class was in geometry or above according to the Admissions Office.

I hope you are lying. 95% of the students take Geometry in 9th grade at TJ?
I bet our "gifted" kids can do way better than that.
I remember many middle schoolers who participated in the "math olympiad" already mastered geometry and other advanced math. And, I don't think they all "gifted" and many of them were rejected by TJ.

No - what I said was...

In the years immediately prior to the admissions changes...

.... nearly 95% of each incoming class at TJ....

... were in Geometry or above - and many were indeed above....

... in 8th grade.

Significant work is required on reading comprehension skills and if you're trying to be a jerk, language barriers are no excuse.

Then, why does TJ offer geometry for 9th graders? Isn't that odd for a gifted school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

Then go ahead and advocate that geometry in 8th is a prerequisite. But right now it's not, and it never has been except in the final years of the prior admissions process when it was a de facto requirement - nearly 95% of each incoming class was in geometry or above according to the Admissions Office.

I hope you are lying. 95% of the students take Geometry in 9th grade at TJ?
I bet our "gifted" kids can do way better than that.
I remember many middle schoolers who participated in the "math olympiad" already mastered geometry and other advanced math. And, I don't think they all "gifted" and many of them were rejected by TJ.

No - what I said was...

In the years immediately prior to the admissions changes...

.... nearly 95% of each incoming class at TJ....

... were in Geometry or above - and many were indeed above....

... in 8th grade.

Significant work is required on reading comprehension skills and if you're trying to be a jerk, language barriers are no excuse.

Then, why does TJ offer geometry for 9th graders? Isn't that odd for a gifted school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just build more TJs if so many students are interested.

The new building cost $100M to the taxpayers. Private capital filled it with equipment.

More funds than that amount was allocated each for building/expanding Herndon High, McLean High, and recent high schools. Constructing a new high school building isn't a significant obstacle. A stem high school stature isn't determined by its physical structure after all, but by the advanced curriculum offered and admitting highly capable students that can master it. Going by the yearly number of applications to TJ, it's evident that over 60% of interest in advanced STEM field comes from a single minority community: Asian Americans. Yet, there appears to be no political inclination to address the needs of this community. Asian Americans have been advocating for the establishment of TJ2 for several decades.

Democratic school board has betrayed the trust of Asian Americans by forcefully reducing their representation at TJ through elimination of merit based admission criteria. Glenn Youngkin is the sole individual who has openly aligned with the notion that lottery-based admissions have no relevance in advanced STEM fields.

+1
They just love free rides and entitlement. Destroying family values, hard work, and meritocracy.

The only entitlement here is from some parents who feel that their kids are entitled to a seat at TJ.

No, no kid is entitled. There are far more qualified applicants than there are seats. The latest classes are hard-working, well-qualified students with higher average GPA than prior years.

You are fooling yourself.
Quota is unfair, and the motive is race-based.
What are you smoking btw?

The current admissions process is NOT race-based.

And they continue to fill the class with well-qualified, hard-working students - now from all over the region.

Not well-qualified. Students who still take geometry in 9th grade should not be considered "gifted in STEM".

Then go ahead and advocate that geometry in 8th is a prerequisite. But right now it's not, and it never has been except in the final years of the prior admissions process when it was a de facto requirement - nearly 95% of each incoming class was in geometry or above according to the Admissions Office.

I hope you are lying. 95% of the students take Geometry in 9th grade at TJ?
I bet our "gifted" kids can do way better than that.
I remember many middle schoolers who participated in the "math olympiad" already mastered geometry and other advanced math. And, I don't think they all "gifted" and many of them were rejected by TJ.

No - what I said was...

In the years immediately prior to the admissions changes...

.... nearly 95% of each incoming class at TJ....

... were in Geometry or above - and many were indeed above....

... in 8th grade.

Significant work is required on reading comprehension skills and if you're trying to be a jerk, language barriers are no excuse.

Then, why does TJ offer geometry for 9th graders? Isn't that odd for a gifted school?

Perhaps, people don't want to admit that some incoming TJ 9th graders need help on Math. Just a suggestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

Being a full grade level ahead of your peers in a subject area? Sure. Why wouldn't it be?

When you look at the gigantic number of students who are in GT/AAP programs anymore, the definition of "gifted" slipped a long time ago.

No way. Study geometry in 9th grade is not impressive. You mean geometry in 10th grade is the norm?

10th is the standard track.

Plenty of gifted STEM kids take geometry in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

Being a full grade level ahead of your peers in a subject area? Sure. Why wouldn't it be?

When you look at the gigantic number of students who are in GT/AAP programs anymore, the definition of "gifted" slipped a long time ago.

No way. Study geometry in 9th grade is not impressive. You mean geometry in 10th grade is the norm?

10th is the standard track.

Plenty of gifted STEM kids take geometry in 9th.

I'm shocked. Here are some examples of Math progression from a regular, not "gifted" LCPS school.
In general, it has 4 levels/paths

Standard students path #1:

9th: Algebra 1
10th: Geometry
11th: Algebra 2/Trig
12th: AP Pre-Calculus

Standard students path #1:
9th: Geometry
10th: Algebra 2/Trig
11th: AP Pre-Calculus
12th: AP Calculus AB/BC

Acceleration Pathway:
9th: Algebra 2/Trig
10th: AP Pre-Calculus
11th: AP Calculus AB/BC
12th: Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics

Acceleration Pathway through the Gifted Office:
9th: AP Pre-Calculus
10th: Calculus AB/BC
11th: Calculus BC, or, Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics
12th: Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics

In LCPS, "Gifted" students will take AP-Pre-Calculus in 9th grade.

I think someone is lying about TJ. It doesn't make sense that "Plenty of gifted STEM kids take geometry in 9th".
Please don't lie to justify your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the latest challenge to the role race may play in school admissions, a legal activist group asked the Supreme Court on Monday to hear a case on how students are selected at one of the country’s top high schools, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.

A divided three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled in May that Thomas Jefferson, a public school in Alexandria, Va., did not discriminate in its admissions. The Pacific Legal Foundation, a libertarian law group, wants the Supreme Court to overturn that decision, arguing that the school’s new admissions policies disadvantaged Asian American applicants.

At issue is the use of what the school board said were race-neutral criteria to achieve a diverse student body. The constitutionality of such practices was left open in the Supreme Court’s decision in June against Harvard and the University of North Carolina, effectively banning the use of race-conscious admissions practices by colleges, though the majority opinion said, quoting an earlier decision, that “what cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly.”

Although the new case involves a prestigious magnet high school, the decision could ultimately affect colleges, which are implementing new admissions criteria after the June decision. “This is the next frontier,” Joshua P. Thompson, a lawyer with the Pacific Legal Foundation, has said of the litigation.

In its filing Monday asking the Supreme Court to review the case, the Pacific Legal Foundation argued that Thomas Jefferson’s admissions plan was “intentionally designed to achieve the same results as overt racial discrimination.”

The Supreme Court has already had one encounter with the case. In April 2022, the court rejected an emergency request from the Coalition for T.J. to block the new admissions criteria while the case moved forward. That was before the court’s decision in June banning race-conscious admissions in higher education.

Even so, the court’s three most conservative members — Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Neil M. Gorsuch — said they would have granted the request.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/us/politics/supreme-court-thomas-jefferson-high-school-admissions.html?auth=login-google1tap&login=google1tap

This will have 0 impact since FCPS only does race-blind admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

It wasn't less than 10, but that's besides the point.

If it is that small, then you have a de facto requirement that kids must be in Geometry in 8th grade in order to have any real hope of qualifying for TJ. And if that's going to be the case, then FCPS should just make that the requirement and be done with it.

They didn't, so yes, that number of kids is isolating and unacceptably small.

By the way - I wouldn't mind if Geometry were the requirement, as long as it were promulgated as such and was offered to students at all middle schools in the catchment area without having to leave their building.

Geometry was essentially the requirement, but they were willing to take exceptions if they were actually exceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

With only a small percentage getting in if they were taking algebra 1. Now it is about 20% of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

kids who entered in TJ Math 1 or its equivalent. It was an unacceptably small number, but those kids were selected by the old admissions process that you love to refer to as “merit-based”.

How do you know which of those kids wouldn’t have gotten in under the old process? They’re kids, not statistics.

Why is it unacceptably small? Why is it better to have 100+ kids taking algebra 1 in 8th grade vs less than 10?

Wait a minute. Does TJ really offer Algebra 1 in ninth grade?
My son's in middle schools has 71% Algebra 1 participation rate.
I thought TJ is for "STEM-gifted" students.
Does that mean TJ accepts the "bottom 29%" kid?

Shoutout for the "bottom 29%" gifted kids.

They said in 8th, not 9th. TJ has no students taking Alg 1 in ninth grade.

They do have Alg 1 in their course catalog.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/503/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

And... Math 1 is basically geometry, which is typical material for above-averaged students in 8th grade.

Math 1 TJ HN (314351)

Grades 9

Credit one-half / weighted +0.5

Students will study geometric topics in depth, with a focus on building critical thinking and reasoning skills. Topics of study include inductive and deductive reasoning, understanding logic statements, writing proofs, parallel and perpendicular lines and their properties, congruent triangles and similarity, properties of triangles, quadrilaterals, and circles. The process standard focus will be reasoning.

Geometry is typical for students who are well above average in 8th grade. Algebra 1 is typical of students who are above average in 8th grade.

TJ students should be "best of the best", not above average. Is is wrong?

Even well above average is not right.

Sure it is. Geometry is at least two grade levels ahead of where 8th grade students typically are in the TJ catchment area. Algebra is a grade level ahead, to say nothing of Honors indications.

The goalposts are where they are. If you feel the need to move them, then advocate for them to be moved. But the standard at TJ has ALWAYS been a minimum of Algebra in 8th grade.

Seriously, doing geometry in 9th grade is "gifted"?

Being a full grade level ahead of your peers in a subject area? Sure. Why wouldn't it be?

When you look at the gigantic number of students who are in GT/AAP programs anymore, the definition of "gifted" slipped a long time ago.

No way. Study geometry in 9th grade is not impressive. You mean geometry in 10th grade is the norm?

10th is the standard track.

Plenty of gifted STEM kids take geometry in 9th.

I'm shocked. Here are some examples of Math progression from a regular, not "gifted" LCPS school.
In general, it has 4 levels/paths

Standard students path #1:

9th: Algebra 1
10th: Geometry
11th: Algebra 2/Trig
12th: AP Pre-Calculus

Standard students path #1:
9th: Geometry
10th: Algebra 2/Trig
11th: AP Pre-Calculus
12th: AP Calculus AB/BC

Acceleration Pathway:
9th: Algebra 2/Trig
10th: AP Pre-Calculus
11th: AP Calculus AB/BC
12th: Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics

Acceleration Pathway through the Gifted Office:
9th: AP Pre-Calculus
10th: Calculus AB/BC
11th: Calculus BC, or, Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics
12th: Multivariable Calculus or AP Statistics

In LCPS, "Gifted" students will take AP-Pre-Calculus in 9th grade.

I think someone is lying about TJ. It doesn't make sense that "Plenty of gifted STEM kids take geometry in 9th".
Please don't lie to justify your narrative.

LCPS students probably don't take AP PreCalc in 9th grade, because then LCPS will not let you take calculus BC in 10th grade. Instead they have Math Analysis in 9th grade then CalcBC.
Also, the gifted students who go to AOS or AET have to do a lot of repeat learning for their AP AOS Math 1 or whatever it is called, though there is a lot of new material.