Big state schools - lot of fun, great networks, but do you really learn there?

[Anonymous]

I went to Big State Not Berkeley Or Michigan Flagship U and double-majored in one large field I wasn't particularly good at (but wanted to do) and one small field in which I was able to stand out (and was already planning my career in that area). It was an absolutely all-consuming experience in every respect. I worked harder than I ever thought I could, received superb mentorship, and won multiple fellowships before and during grad school. (Concession related to previous discussion: I was in an honors program.)

The difference between Big State Flagship U, Ivy League, and Elite SLAC worlds isn't the top tier of students. It's the size of the middle-performing and needs-help tiers. A Big State Flagship U that is doing its job properly will keep trying to support all of these groups despite the scale. The sheer variety of things you can do for educational experiences and for fun is just dazzling. Too early to tell yet if schools like this might be right for DCs, and I won't force the issue at all, but I secretly dream of that kind of match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

Ok, this is my experience. I was staying with my friend at prestigious state u and he paid me $50 in the 1990s to write a paper for him. I cranked it out in an hour and he got an A+. It was B- ish work at Ivy League. Ever since then I’ve tended to think state u was bs.

Really? That’s your research? If so, an Ivy degree doesn’t appear to mean much.

[Anonymous]

Most state schools have more of the better students than a Harvard. Bigger schools. More room for intelligent people.


But nice troll post. You’ve done well, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

My experience is the opposite; at state schools you actually have to earn your grades.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

I had no idea. Thank you. Now I have to go throw my Ivy League degree in the recycling.

There is a lot you so-called ivy leaguers don't know.

For example, tell us where the expression "through the wringer" originated. (And if you knew, you'd have the sense not to have written "ringer" in the first place.)

You got me. I had no idea. I googled it. Fascinating. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-through-the-wringer-or-through-the-ringer-difference#:~:text=The%20idiom%20through%20the%20wringer,was%20often%20that%20of%20questioning.

One thing about being an Ivy Leaguer, you have zero insecurity about your intelligence. If anything you act like an idiiot most of the time so state u joe sixpack types don't feel inimidated.

And this, my friend, is proof positive that you Ivy Leaguers may have what some would (graciously) refer to as "book sense," while your state u joe sixpack friends have what is known as common sense. Or life sense.

You see, I know people who had grandparents who had washing "machines" that were literally wringers. I listen, I observe, I pay attention, I make connections. That is the true definition of intelligence. And I spot one-dimensional people who have none of those capabilities on DCUM, and in Washington, all the time. Frequently, they are only too happy to inform that they are Ivy Leaguers. And I guffaw. (Do you know what that means?!)

I know plenty of state school grads with zero common sense, just saying. And the successful ones all try to get their kids into Ivys or the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

I had no idea. Thank you. Now I have to go throw my Ivy League degree in the recycling.

There is a lot you so-called ivy leaguers don't know.

For example, tell us where the expression "through the wringer" originated. (And if you knew, you'd have the sense not to have written "ringer" in the first place.)

You got me. I had no idea. I googled it. Fascinating. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-through-the-wringer-or-through-the-ringer-difference#:~:text=The%20idiom%20through%20the%20wringer,was%20often%20that%20of%20questioning.

One thing about being an Ivy Leaguer, you have zero insecurity about your intelligence. If anything you act like an idiiot most of the time so state u joe sixpack types don't feel inimidated.

And this, my friend, is proof positive that you Ivy Leaguers may have what some would (graciously) refer to as "book sense," while your state u joe sixpack friends have what is known as common sense. Or life sense.

You see, I know people who had grandparents who had washing "machines" that were literally wringers. I listen, I observe, I pay attention, I make connections. That is the true definition of intelligence. And I spot one-dimensional people who have none of those capabilities on DCUM, and in Washington, all the time. Frequently, they are only too happy to inform that they are Ivy Leaguers. And I guffaw. (Do you know what that means?!)

I know plenty of state school grads with zero common sense, just saying. And the successful ones all try to get their kids into Ivys or the like.

Because parents want their DCs to do better than them. It's undeniable that the average student at an Ivy will be better (but not necessarily better off in their future) than the average student at a top flagship, but there are only so many non-Ivy schools with universal name recognition and lay prestige that are better than top flagships, the number of which I can easily count on just two hands. (And nobody aims to be average anyway.) See the McKinsey recruiting list https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1085366.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

I had no idea. Thank you. Now I have to go throw my Ivy League degree in the recycling.

There is a lot you so-called ivy leaguers don't know.

For example, tell us where the expression "through the wringer" originated. (And if you knew, you'd have the sense not to have written "ringer" in the first place.)

You got me. I had no idea. I googled it. Fascinating. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-through-the-wringer-or-through-the-ringer-difference#:~:text=The%20idiom%20through%20the%20wringer,was%20often%20that%20of%20questioning.

One thing about being an Ivy Leaguer, you have zero insecurity about your intelligence. If anything you act like an idiiot most of the time so state u joe sixpack types don't feel inimidated.

And this, my friend, is proof positive that you Ivy Leaguers may have what some would (graciously) refer to as "book sense," while your state u joe sixpack friends have what is known as common sense. Or life sense.

You see, I know people who had grandparents who had washing "machines" that were literally wringers. I listen, I observe, I pay attention, I make connections. That is the true definition of intelligence. And I spot one-dimensional people who have none of those capabilities on DCUM, and in Washington, all the time. Frequently, they are only too happy to inform that they are Ivy Leaguers. And I guffaw. (Do you know what that means?!)

I know plenty of state school grads with zero common sense, just saying. And the successful ones all try to get their kids into Ivys or the like.

Because parents want their DCs to do better than them. It's undeniable that the average student at an Ivy will be better (but not necessarily better off in their future) than the average student at a top flagship, but there are only so many non-Ivy schools with universal name recognition and lay prestige that are better than top flagships, the number of which I can easily count on just two hands. (And nobody aims to be average anyway.) See the McKinsey recruiting list https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1085366.page

+1, lay recognition is important in credentialist client-facing industries

[Anonymous]

Eco 101 at my large state school had 800 kids in one class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Whether Emory University or Williams College offers the better education depends upon the particular student and the particular course of study. My first thought is that the intellectual firepower is greater at Emory, but that the well rounded student is more prevalent at athletically inclined Williams College.

Kids I know heading to Emory this year would NEVER get into Williams.

Williams had a 30% acceptance rate for ED. Does not seem so selective.

40% of the student body at Williams are recruited athletes. Back those numbers out of their ED and try again. Then do the same for Emory assuming you can estimate the percent of recruited athletes there.. That’ll give you a better comparison.

And no, I have no idea what the result will be. But I am interested.

The co-valedictorian when I graduated from Williams was a student athlete (ice hockey). Williams has the same number of teams as a U of A but with a much smaller student body so it stands to reason a higher proportion of its student body would be comprised of athletes. What point are you trying to make about student athletes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eco 101 at my large state school had 800 kids in one class!

Troll harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

What a clown question, which basically answers itself. You have the reasoning skills of a toddler (and you write poorly, to boot).

Is it not a fair question, to ask if a large state school delivers the individualized attention and educational intensity smaller schools often emphasize? The advantages of size are apparent. I am attempting to form a clear picture of the disadvantages.

Well, you did it by insulting Big State Us and in-state kids as “high school work”. I’m actually shocked so many people have answered your question without snark.

My kids are at Big State Us. They’ve taken the initiative to go to office hours and participate in academic electives that also allow them to form relationships with professors and advisors. Professors in their departments know them by name.

One kid got a full ride at a school DCUM doesn’t respect much, and is now headed to an Ivy for grad school. Big State U is what you make of it. But if your kid isn’t self-motivated, it might not be the right place for them. A kid who wants to skate through can - no one is going to hold their hand or beg them to work to their potential.

Which school did they get a full ride to of you don't mind me asking? Congratulations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eco 101 at my large state school had 800 kids in one class!

Troll harder.

It's true though, same with gen chem and calculus.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP. So the consensus is, the education is just as intensive as smaller colleges, except there is more variety, more opportunity and it's more fun?

No, the consensus is that LACs are a continuation of high school with lots of hand holding, while big state schools require independence and initiative. Big state publics offer a greater variety of opportunities than do tiny schools.

Got it. Totally getting a richer educational experience at Indiana versus Williams. Lol, Hoosier daddy?

No. Williams College is an exceptional school. Indiana University offers a myriad of opportunities and has a very large honors college. Elite private national Universities are superior to both, however.

I graduated from a top-10 private national U full of brilliant faculty who did their best to limit time spent with undergrads. Lower level courses were large and taught mostly in sections by grad students, many of whom struggled with English.
My son had a far, far superior experience at Amherst. The teaching quality was much higher, and the focus was on undergraduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: The best professors are at large universities because they are able to generate significant research grants for groundbreaking, cutting edge research.

LAC profs are second tier quality.

The best professors are at Ivy League schools and equivalents, perhaps with some exceptions in the sciences and engineering. But I'm sure those superstar profs at UNC are spending all their time focusing on the 500 kids in their lecture hall.

The best professors are at Ivy League schools, Big Ten universities, University of California system, Johns Hopkins, MIT, and many other National Universities whether public or private. Just follow the research dollars.

I agree, Those best professors do their very best to avoid spending their precious time with your undergraduate kid. Harvard has acknowledged that its model for teaching undergraduates should be the top LACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eco 101 at my large state school had 800 kids in one class!

Troll harder.

Why is he trolling?

I think when I took Ec 10 (the intro class at Harvard) we had like 800 students in the class.