Big state schools - lot of fun, great networks, but do you really learn there?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Whether Emory University or Williams College offers the better education depends upon the particular student and the particular course of study. My first thought is that the intellectual firepower is greater at Emory, but that the well rounded student is more prevalent at athletically inclined Williams College.

Kids I know heading to Emory this year would NEVER get into Williams.

Williams had a 30% acceptance rate for ED. Does not seem so selective.

40% of the student body at Williams are recruited athletes. Back those numbers out of their ED and try again. Then do the same for Emory assuming you can estimate the percent of recruited athletes there.. That’ll give you a better comparison.

And no, I have no idea what the result will be. But I am interested.

Acceptance rate is not a measure of selectivity in and of itself because applicants know what the standards of a school are. A highly selective school generally just received applications from students who have some hope of getting in. A school with a high acceptance often has a much stronger student body than a school with a low acceptance rate. The only way to really get a sense of the quality of the student body is by looking at test scores. Emory and Williams are similar in this regard - extremely high.

Both Emory and Williams are extremely selective now. For a top student to get into Williams seems like the more difficult challenge in my experience, if only because it’s so much smaller. Like an unhooked 4.0 1550 type prob has a 60 pct chance of getting into Emory ED vs 30 pct at Williams. That is my guess.

[Anonymous]

I went to UW-Madison in the late 90s. I had an excellent education. Were there some generic large lecture classes? Yes. However, there are so many options for classes/majors and upper level classes were challenging, interesting, and memorable (even 25 years later). I feel strongly that the classes I took helped shape my career choices and provided me with a fabulous liberal arts education. I had plenty of small group classes and got substantial written feedback on work. I worked in a lab with a world renowned research and scientist.
Looking back, I have some regret of not taking advantage of more of the opportunities the school provided. It takes a very independent and motivated kid to navigate a big state school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

Ok, this is my experience. I was staying with my friend at prestigious state u and he paid me $50 in the 1990s to write a paper for him. I cranked it out in an hour and he got an A+. It was B- ish work at Ivy League. Ever since then I’ve tended to think state u was bs.

Generalizing based on ONE anecdote kind of makes you look... stupid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As some say, you get out of it what you put into it. Then again, some schools ask more of students. It’s easier to exit a big state school without getting an excellent liberal education. However, nowadays, many people don’t care about that. It’s STEM, STEM, STEM, and money, money, money. Big state schools have minimal broad-based humanities requirements, and, if they do, lots of goof-off courses to fulfill them. In essence, yes, it is easy to graduate from State U with a practical degree that might make a lot of money, but little development of the person based on a rigorous humanities and writing curriculum. In contrast, yes, attending a small, well-regarded, private, liberal arts college might get one all of that - a STEM student with a perspective in the humanities that can write well. To be well-educated means the latter, but most in our society don’t really care.

Not really sure where you're getting the bolded. Large state schools almost always have core requirements in the liberal arts that are required of ALL students, regardless of major. But do keep generalizing about schools you quite clearly know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

I had no idea. Thank you. Now I have to go throw my Ivy League degree in the recycling.

There is a lot you so-called ivy leaguers don't know.

For example, tell us where the expression "through the wringer" originated. (And if you knew, you'd have the sense not to have written "ringer" in the first place.)

You got me. I had no idea. I googled it. Fascinating. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-through-the-wringer-or-through-the-ringer-difference#:~:text=The%20idiom%20through%20the%20wringer,was%20often%20that%20of%20questioning.

One thing about being an Ivy Leaguer, you have zero insecurity about your intelligence. If anything you act like an idiiot most of the time so state u joe sixpack types don't feel inimidated.

And this, my friend, is proof positive that you Ivy Leaguers may have what some would (graciously) refer to as "book sense," while your state u joe sixpack friends have what is known as common sense. Or life sense.

You see, I know people who had grandparents who had washing "machines" that were literally wringers. I listen, I observe, I pay attention, I make connections. That is the true definition of intelligence. And I spot one-dimensional people who have none of those capabilities on DCUM, and in Washington, all the time. Frequently, they are only too happy to inform that they are Ivy Leaguers. And I guffaw. (Do you know what that means?!)

Guys, your skin is so thin I can practically see your pink flesh underneath. You both are sounding like jerks. It’s time to put your offended sensibilities aside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

What a clown question, which basically answers itself. You have the reasoning skills of a toddler (and you write poorly, to boot).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

What a clown question, which basically answers itself. You have the reasoning skills of a toddler (and you write poorly, to boot).

Is it not a fair question, to ask if a large state school delivers the individualized attention and educational intensity smaller schools often emphasize? The advantages of size are apparent. I am attempting to form a clear picture of the disadvantages.

[Anonymous]

I heard it summarized this way at an admissions session:
-Big State U: if you don’t show up to any classes for three days no one notices or cares.
- Wesleyan: If you don’t show up to classes for three days someone who works for the school will come knock on your door to check on you.

Some kids need the attention, some don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

Someone tell this genius that the word is “wringer.”

I had no idea. Thank you. Now I have to go throw my Ivy League degree in the recycling.

There is a lot you so-called ivy leaguers don't know.

For example, tell us where the expression "through the wringer" originated. (And if you knew, you'd have the sense not to have written "ringer" in the first place.)

You got me. I had no idea. I googled it. Fascinating. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-through-the-wringer-or-through-the-ringer-difference#:~:text=The%20idiom%20through%20the%20wringer,was%20often%20that%20of%20questioning.

One thing about being an Ivy Leaguer, you have zero insecurity about your intelligence. If anything you act like an idiiot most of the time so state u joe sixpack types don't feel inimidated.

…And ironically enough, you cannot even spell “idiot” or “intimidated.”

LOL that Ivy League grads are not insecure about how smart they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

What a clown question, which basically answers itself. You have the reasoning skills of a toddler (and you write poorly, to boot).

Is it not a fair question, to ask if a large state school delivers the individualized attention and educational intensity smaller schools often emphasize? The advantages of size are apparent. I am attempting to form a clear picture of the disadvantages.

Well, you did it by insulting Big State Us and in-state kids as “high school work”. I’m actually shocked so many people have answered your question without snark.

My kids are at Big State Us. They’ve taken the initiative to go to office hours and participate in academic electives that also allow them to form relationships with professors and advisors. Professors in their departments know them by name.

One kid got a full ride at a school DCUM doesn’t respect much, and is now headed to an Ivy for grad school. Big State U is what you make of it. But if your kid isn’t self-motivated, it might not be the right place for them. A kid who wants to skate through can - no one is going to hold their hand or beg them to work to their potential.

[Anonymous]

I heard it summarized this way at an admissions session:Big State U: if you don’t show up to any classes for three days no one notices or cares. Wesleyan: If you don’t show up to classes for three days someone who works for the school will come knock on your door to check on you. I've toured quite a few schools, including big state Us and Wesleyan. I didn't hear anything like either statement. Both reinforced the statement that your experience is what you make it. The big state Us focused on how to make a big school smaller via kids in your living circle, clubs, majors, research etc. Wes focused on how independent the students are, and how they can pursue their own interests. The Wes kid who led our tour was studying physics & dance and also learning a language to study in Asia. It didn't interest my DC, but we both agreed it would be a great fit for several friends.

[Anonymous]

Look beyond the T15. I don't see a big difference in perception between the top 20 publics and the next 20 privates. Beyond the T15, publics and privates are in a roughly one-to-one ratio in terms of prestige and perception. The following two groups of schools are very comparable

University of California, Berkeley, University of Virginia, College of William and Mary, United States Military Academy at West Point, United States Naval Academy, University of Michigan, University of California, Los Angeles, Georgia Institute of Technology, Cornell University public parts, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of Texas at Austin, University of Washington, University of Wisconsin—Madison, University of Maryland, College Park, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of California, San Diego, University of California, Santa Barbara, University of Florida, University of Pittsburgh, Colorado School of Mines

Columbia University, Cornell University private parts, University of Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon University, Emory University, Georgetown University, New York University, University of Southern California, Wake Forest University, Tufts University, University of Rochester, Boston University, Brandeis University, Case Western Reserve University, Northeastern University, Tulane University, Lehigh University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Villanova University, Pepperdine University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look beyond the T15. I don't see a big difference in perception between the top 20 publics and the next 20 privates. Beyond the T15, publics and privates are in a roughly one-to-one ratio in terms of prestige and perception. The following two groups of schools are very comparable

University of California, Berkeley, University of Virginia, College of William and Mary, United States Military Academy at West Point, United States Naval Academy, University of Michigan, University of California, Los Angeles, Georgia Institute of Technology, Cornell University public parts, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of Texas at Austin, University of Washington, University of Wisconsin—Madison, University of Maryland, College Park, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of California, San Diego, University of California, Santa Barbara, University of Florida, University of Pittsburgh, Colorado School of Mines

Columbia University, Cornell University private parts, University of Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon University, Emory University, Georgetown University, New York University, University of Southern California, Wake Forest University, Tufts University, University of Rochester, Boston University, Brandeis University, Case Western Reserve University, Northeastern University, Tulane University, Lehigh University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Villanova University, Pepperdine University

We have a kid at W&M. The level of work, the amount of engagement with professors, and the lectures our DC describes are simply outstanding. We are so impressed. Kid also got into big state schools. Only reason they're at W&M is because that's a better fit in terms of personality, but classmates who went to those bigger schools appear just as happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look beyond the T15. I don't see a big difference in perception between the top 20 publics and the next 20 privates. Beyond the T15, publics and privates are in a roughly one-to-one ratio in terms of prestige and perception. The following two groups of schools are very comparable

University of California, Berkeley, University of Virginia, College of William and Mary, United States Military Academy at West Point, United States Naval Academy, University of Michigan, University of California, Los Angeles, Georgia Institute of Technology, Cornell University public parts, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, University of Texas at Austin, University of Washington, University of Wisconsin—Madison, University of Maryland, College Park, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of California, San Diego, University of California, Santa Barbara, University of Florida, University of Pittsburgh, Colorado School of Mines

Columbia University, Cornell University private parts, University of Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon University, Emory University, Georgetown University, New York University, University of Southern California, Wake Forest University, Tufts University, University of Rochester, Boston University, Brandeis University, Case Western Reserve University, Northeastern University, Tulane University, Lehigh University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Villanova University, Pepperdine University

We have a kid at W&M. The level of work, the amount of engagement with professors, and the lectures our DC describes are simply outstanding. We are so impressed. Kid also got into big state schools. Only reason they're at W&M is because that's a better fit in terms of personality, but classmates who went to those bigger schools appear just as happy.

W&M has the size and feel of a private school and is quite a unique institution as the nation’s second oldest college. Not the best example.