Admission for athletic recruits

[Anonymous]

He left an OK university, UVA, for a great university (UChicago) and has a degree in economics with a great future. Any reasonable person would do the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is being recruited by JHU. Was told by the coach that they want to see 1500/34 and top 10% of HS class.

JHU = D3
Not the same answer for D1 schools.

We were told the same for the Ivies (D1 schools).

So if I am understanding correctly, despite the test-optional policy, we should expect that the Ivy League schools reaching out to our student-athlete ("top" sport like football/basketball/lacrosse) will request ACT/SAT scores? Also, when should we expect Ivy League recruiting to end practically speaking? End of junior year? End of first semester senior year?

Thank you!

From what I have heard from moms I know with kids being recruited, the coach may ask for scores. That’s different than the kid submitting the scores as part of the application. I heard from one mom of a kid committed to play a sport at a “lower” ivy that he was told not to submit his 1400 SAT score. I get that is anecdotal. I suspect it is not the only time it has happened.

Thanks - we have a strong -GPA, poor test-taker and were hoping to not have to take a test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is being recruited by JHU. Was told by the coach that they want to see 1500/34 and top 10% of HS class.

JHU = D3
Not the same answer for D1 schools.

We were told the same for the Ivies (D1 schools).

So if I am understanding correctly, despite the test-optional policy, we should expect that the Ivy League schools reaching out to our student-athlete ("top" sport like football/basketball/lacrosse) will request ACT/SAT scores? Also, when should we expect Ivy League recruiting to end practically speaking? End of junior year? End of first semester senior year?

Thank you!

I love how uiy lumped lacrosse as a top sport

At many schools it is a top sport but (other than at JHU) not to the extent of football or hoops.

"Top sport" in what way? Maybe there would be a lot of interest in playing it at certain schools, but I don't see it as a top revenue generator.

Do a lot of these athletes continue to play their sport year after year once admitted? They're not getting a scholarship for it, and I'm assuming they can't be dismissed for choosing to quit. I wonder if some use it for a bump in admissions and then quit.

Wrong. And just anecdotally, my DD was at JHU for a (non-lax) sports camp on the same day as a lax game and it was a huge event: tons of people, tailgating, etc.

You're saying lacrosse is a top revenue generator at most schools? Really? Not talking about JHU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is being recruited by JHU. Was told by the coach that they want to see 1500/34 and top 10% of HS class.

JHU = D3
Not the same answer for D1 schools.

We were told the same for the Ivies (D1 schools).

So if I am understanding correctly, despite the test-optional policy, we should expect that the Ivy League schools reaching out to our student-athlete ("top" sport like football/basketball/lacrosse) will request ACT/SAT scores? Also, when should we expect Ivy League recruiting to end practically speaking? End of junior year? End of first semester senior year?

Thank you!

From what I have heard from moms I know with kids being recruited, the coach may ask for scores. That’s different than the kid submitting the scores as part of the application. I heard from one mom of a kid committed to play a sport at a “lower” ivy that he was told not to submit his 1400 SAT score. I get that is anecdotal. I suspect it is not the only time it has happened.

Thanks - we have a strong -GPA, poor test-taker and were hoping to not have to take a test.

The coaches will be clear with the recruit on requirements there.
With really strong GPA athletes (with a difficult class load too), the coaches may selfishly want to see a score even if it isn't necessary since if both GPA and scores are strong, the student may not require much or any admissions bump, which allows them to recruit another kid too or give an additional recruit more "help" depending on team size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

Have seen just the opposite over the last few years with several rockstar kids playing non-revenue team sports. Stanford coaches could not guarantee admission, and they ended up at Ivies. We also know of a couple cases where the Stanford coaches told recruits that admission was likely but in the end the kid got a thumbs down. The nice thing about Stanford recruitment is that you send in your application over the summer and hear back in August or September, so there is time to figure out another good option. I’m certainly not disputing that there are plenty of kids on all Stanford teams that have impeccable academic records.

[Anonymous]

Stanford is the best lockdown combo on the planet. If you can get a scholarship there you are a rockstar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

Have seen just the opposite over the last few years with several rockstar kids playing non-revenue team sports. Stanford coaches could not guarantee admission, and they ended up at Ivies. We also know of a couple cases where the Stanford coaches told recruits that admission was likely but in the end the kid got a thumbs down. The nice thing about Stanford recruitment is that you send in your application over the summer and hear back in August or September, so there is time to figure out another good option. I’m certainly not disputing that there are plenty of kids on all Stanford teams that have impeccable academic records.

What sports are these? Why would they end up at Ivy League schools if they are rockstar athletes outside of the country club like sports (the ones only rich kids play at scale)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

Have seen just the opposite over the last few years with several rockstar kids playing non-revenue team sports. Stanford coaches could not guarantee admission, and they ended up at Ivies. We also know of a couple cases where the Stanford coaches told recruits that admission was likely but in the end the kid got a thumbs down. The nice thing about Stanford recruitment is that you send in your application over the summer and hear back in August or September, so there is time to figure out another good option. I’m certainly not disputing that there are plenty of kids on all Stanford teams that have impeccable academic records.

Must be really low level sports like fencing sailing or crew

[Anonymous]

The kid on first page quit tennis to play professional pickleball! What a clown!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

Have seen just the opposite over the last few years with several rockstar kids playing non-revenue team sports. Stanford coaches could not guarantee admission, and they ended up at Ivies. We also know of a couple cases where the Stanford coaches told recruits that admission was likely but in the end the kid got a thumbs down. The nice thing about Stanford recruitment is that you send in your application over the summer and hear back in August or September, so there is time to figure out another good option. I’m certainly not disputing that there are plenty of kids on all Stanford teams that have impeccable academic records.

Must be really low level sports like fencing sailing or crew

Nope. I’m doubting you have recent experience with kids being recruited by both Stanford and Ivies for team sports, but there is no need to keep arguing about it. Any kid good enough to get serious consideration by Stanford is going to have plenty of great options.

Going back to the topic of the original post, I am with those who find it impressive, if surprising, that the guy in the video will end up with an economics degree from the University of Chicago—that’s a great use of athletic talent. His Chicago junior year tennis bio indicates he was on the UAA all-academic team, so he must have had a GPA of at least 3.30. Will be interesting to see if he achieves his Pickleball pro dreams.

[Anonymous]

There is pro pickle-ball?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopkins is much more lax with their D1 lax admissions standard than their standards for D3 sports.

The bigger the stage in the sport, the more relaxed the standard tends to be. On the high academic side, that translates to power 5 schools like Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Duke having more admissions flexibility than the athletically less competitive Ivy League schools, which have more flexibility than the D3 schools like MIT, Chicago, Wash U, Swarthmore, Amherst, Williams, most of Hopkins, ect.

For non revenue sports, Stanford has a higher minimum score threshold than the Ivy League. No index though, so you could have a team with lots of kids who scored in the 1300-1350 range, where Ivy teams will have a handful who scored in the 1200-1250 range and the majority much higher.

This is incorrect for almost all non-revenue sports. I was on the Stanford campus for much of the last decade and am familiar with their athletic dept. It is true that there are a few sports, like squash and sailing to name a couple, where most of the student-athletes at the very highest level sport wise are already scoring well above 1300, so they are not seeing a dip at Stanford. In those few sports, Stanford's teams are as strong academically as the Ivy League or even the high-academic D3s, but that is the limited exception and not the rule. If someone is a rockstar in a sport but has much lower academic profile though, Stanford could get them in while the Ivy coach would be out of luck.

Have seen just the opposite over the last few years with several rockstar kids playing non-revenue team sports. Stanford coaches could not guarantee admission, and they ended up at Ivies. We also know of a couple cases where the Stanford coaches told recruits that admission was likely but in the end the kid got a thumbs down. The nice thing about Stanford recruitment is that you send in your application over the summer and hear back in August or September, so there is time to figure out another good option. I’m certainly not disputing that there are plenty of kids on all Stanford teams that have impeccable academic records.

Must be really low level sports like fencing sailing or crew

Nope. I’m doubting you have recent experience with kids being recruited by both Stanford and Ivies for team sports, but there is no need to keep arguing about it. Any kid good enough to get serious consideration by Stanford is going to have plenty of great options.

Going back to the topic of the original post, I am with those who find it impressive, if surprising, that the guy in the video will end up with an economics degree from the University of Chicago—that’s a great use of athletic talent. His Chicago junior year tennis bio indicates he was on the UAA all-academic team, so he must have had a GPA of at least 3.30. Will be interesting to see if he achieves his Pickleball pro dreams.

There is limited overlap in the Ivy and Stanford group of athletes, right? I've seen more between the Ivy League and the high-end academic D3s locally.

[Anonymous]

Pickleball is getting popular quickly (mostly among white people of means). Pretty soon colleges might be recruiting pickleball players!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 1600 African American kids scored above 1400 on the SAT last year. About 15000 Asian American kids did. Thus the need for slightly different admission standards.

The SAT is becoming less relevant for admissions. Check the trend.

NCAA still requires scores I do believe---and the schools.

Nope. NCAA has waived test requirements through 2024.

But I thought ivies still expected to see scores for athletic recruits?