VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week

[Anonymous]

If OP signed a separate rental agreement and/or declined insurance from the rental agency, she is totally out of luck. If neither of those things happened, it’s more gray area, but if one or both of the above happened, she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If OP signed a separate rental agreement and/or declined insurance from the rental agency, she is totally out of luck. If neither of those things happened, it’s more gray area, but if one or both of the above happened, she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

OP did not sign a separate rental agreement. Why don't people read the thread before commenting???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you need to read the agreement, remember landlords are people too with families to feed as well.

However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

What are those quotes from?

[Anonymous]

Renting a house that doesn't exist. That's a great scam, I mean, business idea.

My guess is that this is going to be annoying but you will get your money back. Sanibel is not habitable right now and access to the island is prohibited for non-residents. FFS they are still retrieving the deceased.

I don't remember who OP said she rented from, but people down there are still in a complete state of shock, especially those for whom the beach was part of their life or livelihood. Try to be a little sensitive to that. I know it's hard because it's probably thousands of dollars but these people lost everything, including lives. They're going to be finding bodies for a long time related to this storm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

You can get insurance that covers when a rented property doesn’t have electricity or water? I agree with the PPs that say hurricane aside, the house is likely not accessible or has basic services right now. No way should the renter be on the hook for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If OP signed a separate rental agreement and/or declined insurance from the rental agency, she is totally out of luck. If neither of those things happened, it’s more gray area, but if one or both of the above happened, she doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

OP did not sign a separate rental agreement. Why don't people read the thread before commenting???

DP here. I was simply countering the ignorance from some PP’s that there is “no way” an owner could refuse a refund in a case where the house is uninhabitable. That is totally false and uninformed. Without seeing OP’s documentation, I have no idea what her specific circumstance is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.

To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.

Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?

Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.

DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.

There is no safe drinking water on the island. The power grid is down and will be down for months. There is no way to access the island via a car.
The entire sewer system for the island is down and will be down for months.

Yes we all understand this. The discussion is whether or not OP’s rental agreement says the owner will refund due to an act of God or not. Most professional property management companies include this carve out.

There is literally no way for the owner of the property to fulfill their contractual obligations to OP. They cannot give her access to the house. [/b]This is the risk THEY run owning a vacation property in a hurricane-prone place[b].

Look up Force Majeure. It is perfectly legal in the US for owners to exclude acts of God from their responsibility, so long as it is explicitly stated. Have you ever rented a beach house from a beach rental agency? All include Force Majeure clauses, which is why you have to decline Hurricane insurance if you don’t want it. I’m not saying that is the case for OP, but the bold is 100% false.

What’s to prevent the home owner from taking money for NEW rentals then? What is the time frame for force majeure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

You can get insurance that covers when a rented property doesn’t have electricity or water? I agree with the PPs that say hurricane aside, the house is likely not accessible or has basic services right now. No way should the renter be on the hook for that.

If the contract has a force Majeure clause and the renter declined insurance, the renter is absolutely “on the hook.” Some if you have clearly never rented a beach house from a rental agency. Not saying this is OP’s case, but stop saying there is “no way the renter is on the hook.” There are lots of ways the renter could be on the hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you need to read the agreement, remember landlords are people too with families to feed as well.

However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

What are those quotes from?

DP. It appears to be from this piece, which cites to an NYT article but does not link to it.

https://shorttermrentalz.com/news/hurricane-ian-airbnb-vrbo-refunds/

[Anonymous]

This is clearly a wake up call for some of you that you should be reading the rental agreements you are signing blindly.

[Anonymous]

My experience with hurricane insurance is that it also protected me when St Thomas got hit by a hurricane. I was able to get back the entire cost of my trip, it was not about my ability to travel.
Hurricane insurance in the OBX protected me when I had to leave mid way through my trip due to a hurricane.

Regardless, if the landlord cannot provide the rental that the OP contracted for, OP should be able to get a refund. The house is simply not habitable. A landlord, short term or long, has to provide things like electric, water, doors that open and shut and lock, no health hazards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry you need to read the agreement, remember landlords are people too with families to feed as well.

However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

What are those quotes from?

DP. It appears to be from this piece, which cites to an NYT article but does not link to it.

https://shorttermrentalz.com/news/hurricane-ian-airbnb-vrbo-refunds/

Found the NYT article, which has helpful travel information generally post-Ian.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/28/travel/travel-flights-canceled-hurricane-ian.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience with hurricane insurance is that it also protected me when St Thomas got hit by a hurricane. I was able to get back the entire cost of my trip, it was not about my ability to travel.
Hurricane insurance in the OBX protected me when I had to leave mid way through my trip due to a hurricane.

Regardless, if the landlord cannot provide the rental that the OP contracted for, OP should be able to get a refund. The house is simply not habitable. A landlord, short term or long, has to provide things like electric, water, doors that open and shut and lock, no health hazards.

The issue is a little more complicated here, and basically comes down to a game of chicken where the owner likely has the upper hand. Right now, OP does not know if the unit itself is damaged, and does not know if it will be without power/water on her arrival day. Therefore, if she wants to cancel in advance, that will lean toward the burden being on her because it’s not been established that the unit will be uninhabitable. If neither cancels but OP is not able to get to Sanibel for reasons having nothing to do with the unit itself, that likely would also be on her for these purposes because, even if the unit is fully useable, OP will be the one who didn’t show up. If OP shows up for her rental but the unit is uninhabitable, then she has a stronger argument for a refund but she would have to go through a lot of effort to establish that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience with hurricane insurance is that it also protected me when St Thomas got hit by a hurricane. I was able to get back the entire cost of my trip, it was not about my ability to travel.
Hurricane insurance in the OBX protected me when I had to leave mid way through my trip due to a hurricane.

Regardless, if the landlord cannot provide the rental that the OP contracted for, OP should be able to get a refund. The house is simply not habitable. A landlord, short term or long, has to provide things like electric, water, doors that open and shut and lock, no health hazards.

The issue is a little more complicated here, and basically comes down to a game of chicken where the owner likely has the upper hand. Right now, OP does not know if the unit itself is damaged, and does not know if it will be without power/water on her arrival day. Therefore, if she wants to cancel in advance, that will lean toward the burden being on her because it’s not been established that the unit will be uninhabitable. If neither cancels but OP is not able to get to Sanibel for reasons having nothing to do with the unit itself, that likely would also be on her for these purposes because, even if the unit is fully useable, OP will be the one who didn’t show up. If OP shows up for her rental but the unit is uninhabitable, then she has a stronger argument for a refund but she would have to go through a lot of effort to establish that.

The OP needs to contact the owner daily asking for an update of these things. If the owner cannot provide assurances that the house is accessible and inhabitable yet still refuses to provide a refund, OP should leave a review for that ourtlines all this and then work through their credit card company. OP do you have chaw sapphire by chance? It may take a while but they are pretty good to work through.

My guess is that the owner has no plans to rebuild and rent again and this is a last gasp to recover some funds. Most vacation house owners I know understand the risks of owning a house in such an area and would not want to tarnish their reputation for a few thousand bucks.

[Anonymous]

Chase not chaw, lol