VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP the rental contract would have come directly from the property manager/owner, not VRBO. If they didn't have you sign a rental agreement apart from just the booking, then you might have some success with your CC.

But if you signed something and just forgot that you did, and it mentions Force Majeure, you are likely out of luck.

This. It’s in the confirmation e-mail from the owner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.

To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.

Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?

Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.

DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.

There is no safe drinking water on the island. The power grid is down and will be down for months. There is no way to access the island via a car.
The entire sewer system for the island is down and will be down for months.

Yes we all understand this. The discussion is whether or not OP’s rental agreement says the owner will refund due to an act of God or not. Most professional property management companies include this carve out.

[Anonymous]

I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.

To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.

Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?

Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.

DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.

There is no safe drinking water on the island. The power grid is down and will be down for months. There is no way to access the island via a car.
The entire sewer system for the island is down and will be down for months.

Yes we all understand this. The discussion is whether or not OP’s rental agreement says the owner will refund due to an act of God or not. Most professional property management companies include this carve out.

There is literally no way for the owner of the property to fulfill their contractual obligations to OP. They cannot give her access to the house. This is the risk THEY run owning a vacation property in a hurricane-prone place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I can't find any info on the condition of the development I was going to stay in to judge its condition after Ian but I did find this video of a neighboring condo (~250 yards down the beach from my booking, which was also beachfront):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Sanibel/comments/xtvlde/footage_of_sanibel_siesta/

As to the contract, I can't even find an actual legal contract on VRBO for my booking. Does anyone know where on the website it is? All I see are the "cancellation policies" which is the standard "60 day policy":

- 100% refund of amount paid if you cancel at least 60 days before check-in
- No refund if you cancel less than 60 days before check-in

Where is the actual rental contract? I don't have it in my email from when I made the booking either.

Even if I go to make a new booking next year, at no point in the checkout process do I see a link to the actual contract (obviously I am not finalizing the checkout process).

I can find the general VRBO terms and conditions, but they relate to the VRBO platform and have nothing to do with the actual rental contract itself: https://www.vrbo.com/legal/terms-and-conditions

There is no VRBO "contract." If the owner has his/her own contract incorporated into their listing you are given a chance to see the contract and then agree to it when you make your booking. If the owner has no contract (other than their listed cancellation policy) that you agreed to when booking then each party is on their own as to whether a refund is appropriate. IN that circumstance the credit card company would seem to the entity that would make the ultimate decision.

If you accept payment via credit card, you've agreed that their agreements supersede yours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the rental contract would have come directly from the property manager/owner, not VRBO. If they didn't have you sign a rental agreement apart from just the booking, then you might have some success with your CC.

But if you signed something and just forgot that you did, and it mentions Force Majeure, you are likely out of luck.

This. It’s in the confirmation e-mail from the owner.

no, this is wrong. If they can't provide the service, and they can't, you can dispute and charges on your CC and win. Again, for the last freaking time, if you dispute twice, through VRBO, you'll win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

Habitability is implied in a rental

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VRBO is notorious for its terrible customer service. They want to put everything on the owners and provide little to no assistance. At the beginning of covid I had 2 friends who had to cancel reservations because of lockdown and the owners refused to refund the money. VRBO said it wasn't their problem.

To me this is a different situation. The house was there and available, but outside forces (pandemic) intervened and the renters cancelled.

In this scenario OP is presuming (rightly so) that the owner does not have a rentable property available as advertised. If there is no power, it is not an a/c property. If there is no running water it isn't a 2BA house with shower, toilet, dishwasher, etc. Heck, it may have foundation damage and not even be habitable. OP paid for a good that the owner almost certainly can't deliver.

Unless the contract says otherwise. We can speculate all we want but the key Q is what did OP promise?

Seems odd that a contract would force a renter to pay to rent a destroyed house on an unreachable island when they signed a contract for a fully functioning house with water, sewer, and electricity connected to the mainland with a bridge.

DP. You have no idea if the place OP rented was destroyed.

There is no safe drinking water on the island. The power grid is down and will be down for months. There is no way to access the island via a car.
The entire sewer system for the island is down and will be down for months.

Yes we all understand this. The discussion is whether or not OP’s rental agreement says the owner will refund due to an act of God or not. Most professional property management companies include this carve out.

There is literally no way for the owner of the property to fulfill their contractual obligations to OP. They cannot give her access to the house. [/b]This is the risk THEY run owning a vacation property in a hurricane-prone place[b].

Look up Force Majeure. It is perfectly legal in the US for owners to exclude acts of God from their responsibility, so long as it is explicitly stated. Have you ever rented a beach house from a beach rental agency? All include Force Majeure clauses, which is why you have to decline Hurricane insurance if you don’t want it. I’m not saying that is the case for OP, but the bold is 100% false.

[Anonymous]

I’d think contact with the owner that you still intend to come given their assurances that the property is accessible, habitable and exactly as described. And that if you show up and any of these things aren’t accurate they will be responsible for the costs you incurred to travel to the property. Put in there that failure to respond to your communication will constitute an agreement and you are looking forward to staying at their place. Ask them to reiterate the access codes and any other house rules. Make it really seem like you’re coming.

Call their bluff. It’s on them as STR owners to have insurance for lost revenue due to natural or manmade disasters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

Insurance is for the consumer. For their protection if they cancel for limited reasons. It is not to protect a consumer from a unit being uninhabitable - that’s a risk on the owner. The owner could have insurance to protect against this - but I’m betting op’s hypothetical travel insurance wouldn’t cover something like that. The owner has to provide a habitable unit. The end.

[Anonymous]

Sorry you need to read the agreement, remember landlords are people too with families to feed as well.

However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to say I'm pretty shocked by all the people who think OP should pay in full in this situation. I've owned an investment property at the beach for nearly 20 years. We do have a hurricane clause, but that really is for if a hurricane happens while you are there. Basically, no partial refunds. We've had to cancel and refund people in full a few times over the years--the great pool disaster of 2010; twice due to tropical storms; once for broken ac. These things are par for the course for beach rental owners. It is going to happen.

OP, don't cancel. Just reach out via email/phone/etc. everyday until you hear back from the owners or management company about the condition of the house and whether you can access it. I'd also call the credit card company you booked it on and find out if you have any coverage through them. I find it very hard to believe the owners will be able to get it in "as advertised" condition by next week. If the house is not accessible or in usable condition, and you have to fight this through your credit card, these folks are garbage people and deserve every bad review you can throw at them.

Did OP pay a security deposit? A cleaning fee? Do all the hardcore folks think that OP should pay for these items?

Yes to all of this. Hurricane insurance is for when you’re there/back out of a storm is coming. That’s not the situation here.

Take the hurricane out of the equation. Forget the fact that the bridge is impassable. If any of you rented a unit, showed up and there was no power or water, would you say, oh well I’m out of luck - I should have had trip insurance?!? No. You aren’t getting what you paid for and that’s on the owner. If the owner can’t provide that, then they have breached the agreement. The reason behind it is irrelevant.

I do think that the management company is using the fact that op tried to preemptively cancel against her. If she didn’t cancel, they would have to cancel the res and if they do that, it’s obviously on them to refund.

There is no agreement for services , did you sign something from vrbo? Nope you gambled and lost, next time get insurance

Insurance is for the consumer. For their protection if they cancel for limited reasons. It is not to protect a consumer from a unit being uninhabitable - that’s a risk on the owner. The owner could have insurance to protect against this - but I’m betting op’s hypothetical travel insurance wouldn’t cover something like that. The owner has to provide a habitable unit. The end.

False. That’s not the only purpose of insurance. Some of you need to return your online law degrees because you sound really dumb.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what the right answer is— I just don’t think it’s an open and shut as some people say.