What is going on with student loans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fix the system, don’t put a useless bandaid on problematic outcomes. Typical democrat strategy to buy votes but fix nothing.

Republicans aren’t talking about it all. No solutions.
Just nothing.

There is nothing to discuss. People willing took out loans, so they need to repay their debt. The end.

Once again, these loans prey on kids. A 17 or 18 year old does not understand what they are getting into. And nobody explains to them that $60k in loans will end up costing them several hundred thousand over the course of their life. I watched my own kids get offers and accept loans. None of this was laid out for them.

There were a lot of 17 and 18 year olds at my state school who didn't take out $60k in loans. Sorry that other 17 and 18 year old were chasing status and paid full freight at ritzy private schools.

What ritzy private school education teacher only costs $60k? My kid goes to a state school. Her (in-state) tuition and housing is $20k per year. So, her defree will cost $80k.

Even that is low, Longwood university (the traditional teaching college in Virginia) has a 30k per year cost of attendance. 30k all in seems like the new norm in virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should working class people who had NOTHING TO DO with these loans bail out those who made bad decisions?

The working class are the ones getting bailed out by $10K forgiveness. The government has my tax monies and I want some of it back.

The working class who never went to college? Nope. Try again.
We have tens of millions of people barely keeping their heads above water because of Biden's recession.... they didn't go to college... and you want THEM to bail out those who did?

NO WAY!

Nurses are working class. Teachers are working class. Social workers are working class. People who started college but didn’t finish are definitely working class.

Or are only white guys in $60K pickup the “real” working class Americans?

You cant lump in college dropouts with teachers and nurses. Many college dropouts make a lot of money.

My neighbor never went to college. Shortly after high school, he went to prison. He lives in a multimillion dollar house with an infinity pool and a basketball court and sends his kids to private school. You can say that broadly speaking, people who go to college tend to earn more. But you cant make "definite" statements about the financial prospects of people who dont go to college.

DP. I have no clue what point you are trying to make in the context of a discussion about student debt.

That the idea that college is a prerequisite for success is not true. There is a strong correlation. But its still a choice you can opt out of and still do well.

What does that have to do with nurses, teachers and social workers being working class?

Nothing. The pp I was responding to brought up nurses and teachers.

However, the fact that 4 years of college brings you a working class salary (in those cases) is an excellent argument againsy the ROI of college. You'd be better off attending a coding boot camp.

What do you think the average bootcamp graduate without a bachelors or associates degree makes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is really under-reported, in fact I've never seen it reported, how uneducated millions of the 18 year old "adults" are who are taking out federal loans. All high school diplomas are not created equally.

Inner-city public high schools graduate kids that can't read above a 6th grade level. Bottom of the class at public high schools in poor white and Hispanic communities aren't any better. Convicts get their GED in county jail but can't write a single coherent sentence. All of these legal adults are allowed to go sign up for $30K in federal student loans even though they're nowhere near college ready.

It is no wonder the dropout rate for this cohort is 80 to 90%. Tens of millions of these poor students were never fit for college, never will be, but they were allowed to rack up up to $30K in federal student loans. It's predatory. The "scam" for-profit and private colleges get a lot of ink spilled, but the colleges most likely to be scamming students in this cohort are local community colleges and commuter universities who admit basically everyone. But they're "public institutions" so they get a pass as if they're noble.

The completion rate at the community college Jill Biden teaches at is only about 25%. So 3 in 4 low-income students there just waste their time and leave with a mountain of loans. Most community colleges have even worse completion rates.

Shouldn't kids be learning - IN HIGH SCHOOL - the consequences of taking out student loans? Shouldn't this be part of their education?

+1000

There are calls among students, BOEs, and employers all over the country for more financial literacy teaching in schools. Yes it's complicated because it probably needs to be a mandatory class not just an elective. And I absolutely HATE the argument that financial literacy must be taught by parents. If this isn't a factor that perpetuates the cycle of poverty, I don't know what is. Why should children be subject to the same financial mistakes as their parents? Education really needs to level the playing field, and this includes financial education. This, and what about children whose parents work multiple jobs, or single parent households, or children in broken or toxic or abusive families? Not every child comes from a home equipped to teach them about balancing checks and loan interests. It's such a travesty. Teach financial literacy in grade school. All the way through graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is really under-reported, in fact I've never seen it reported, how uneducated millions of the 18 year old "adults" are who are taking out federal loans. All high school diplomas are not created equally.

Inner-city public high schools graduate kids that can't read above a 6th grade level. Bottom of the class at public high schools in poor white and Hispanic communities aren't any better. Convicts get their GED in county jail but can't write a single coherent sentence. All of these legal adults are allowed to go sign up for $30K in federal student loans even though they're nowhere near college ready.

It is no wonder the dropout rate for this cohort is 80 to 90%. Tens of millions of these poor students were never fit for college, never will be, but they were allowed to rack up up to $30K in federal student loans. It's predatory. The "scam" for-profit and private colleges get a lot of ink spilled, but the colleges most likely to be scamming students in this cohort are local community colleges and commuter universities who admit basically everyone. But they're "public institutions" so they get a pass as if they're noble.

The completion rate at the community college Jill Biden teaches at is only about 25%. So 3 in 4 low-income students there just waste their time and leave with a mountain of loans. Most community colleges have even worse completion rates.

Shouldn't kids be learning - IN HIGH SCHOOL - the consequences of taking out student loans? Shouldn't this be part of their education?

+1000

There are calls among students, BOEs, and employers all over the country for more financial literacy teaching in schools. Yes it's complicated because it probably needs to be a mandatory class not just an elective. And I absolutely HATE the argument that financial literacy must be taught by parents. If this isn't a factor that perpetuates the cycle of poverty, I don't know what is. Why should children be subject to the same financial mistakes as their parents? Education really needs to level the playing field, and this includes financial education. This, and what about children whose parents work multiple jobs, or single parent households, or children in broken or toxic or abusive families? Not every child comes from a home equipped to teach them about balancing checks and loan interests. It's such a travesty. Teach financial literacy in grade school. All the way through graduation.

I am the pp and I totally agree. I think kids who want to go to college should be required to take a course on the impact of student loans. Along with all the other financial literacy topics necessary to be a contributing member of society.

People in our country do not understand basic economics. Are people not required to take an economics course in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is really under-reported, in fact I've never seen it reported, how uneducated millions of the 18 year old "adults" are who are taking out federal loans. All high school diplomas are not created equally.

Inner-city public high schools graduate kids that can't read above a 6th grade level. Bottom of the class at public high schools in poor white and Hispanic communities aren't any better. Convicts get their GED in county jail but can't write a single coherent sentence. All of these legal adults are allowed to go sign up for $30K in federal student loans even though they're nowhere near college ready.

It is no wonder the dropout rate for this cohort is 80 to 90%. Tens of millions of these poor students were never fit for college, never will be, but they were allowed to rack up up to $30K in federal student loans. It's predatory. The "scam" for-profit and private colleges get a lot of ink spilled, but the colleges most likely to be scamming students in this cohort are local community colleges and commuter universities who admit basically everyone. But they're "public institutions" so they get a pass as if they're noble.

The completion rate at the community college Jill Biden teaches at is only about 25%. So 3 in 4 low-income students there just waste their time and leave with a mountain of loans. Most community colleges have even worse completion rates.

Shouldn't kids be learning - IN HIGH SCHOOL - the consequences of taking out student loans? Shouldn't this be part of their education?

+1000

There are calls among students, BOEs, and employers all over the country for more financial literacy teaching in schools. Yes it's complicated because it probably needs to be a mandatory class not just an elective. And I absolutely HATE the argument that financial literacy must be taught by parents. If this isn't a factor that perpetuates the cycle of poverty, I don't know what is. Why should children be subject to the same financial mistakes as their parents? Education really needs to level the playing field, and this includes financial education. This, and what about children whose parents work multiple jobs, or single parent households, or children in broken or toxic or abusive families? Not every child comes from a home equipped to teach them about balancing checks and loan interests. It's such a travesty. Teach financial literacy in grade school. All the way through graduation.

I am the pp and I totally agree. I think kids who want to go to college should be required to take a course on the impact of student loans. Along with all the other financial literacy topics necessary to be a contributing member of society.

People in our country do not understand basic economics. Are people not required to take an economics course in college?

Going to college gives kids a shot at making it. Kids aren't stupid, they can see that every professional they interact with has a college degree and they realize that the cashier at the grocery store most likely doesn't. Taking out the loans and trying to make it work is worth a roll of the dice because our society doesn't hire white collar professionals with only high school diplimas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is really under-reported, in fact I've never seen it reported, how uneducated millions of the 18 year old "adults" are who are taking out federal loans. All high school diplomas are not created equally.

Inner-city public high schools graduate kids that can't read above a 6th grade level. Bottom of the class at public high schools in poor white and Hispanic communities aren't any better. Convicts get their GED in county jail but can't write a single coherent sentence. All of these legal adults are allowed to go sign up for $30K in federal student loans even though they're nowhere near college ready.

It is no wonder the dropout rate for this cohort is 80 to 90%. Tens of millions of these poor students were never fit for college, never will be, but they were allowed to rack up up to $30K in federal student loans. It's predatory. The "scam" for-profit and private colleges get a lot of ink spilled, but the colleges most likely to be scamming students in this cohort are local community colleges and commuter universities who admit basically everyone. But they're "public institutions" so they get a pass as if they're noble.

The completion rate at the community college Jill Biden teaches at is only about 25%. So 3 in 4 low-income students there just waste their time and leave with a mountain of loans. Most community colleges have even worse completion rates.

Shouldn't kids be learning - IN HIGH SCHOOL - the consequences of taking out student loans? Shouldn't this be part of their education?

+1000

There are calls among students, BOEs, and employers all over the country for more financial literacy teaching in schools. Yes it's complicated because it probably needs to be a mandatory class not just an elective. And I absolutely HATE the argument that financial literacy must be taught by parents. If this isn't a factor that perpetuates the cycle of poverty, I don't know what is. Why should children be subject to the same financial mistakes as their parents? Education really needs to level the playing field, and this includes financial education. This, and what about children whose parents work multiple jobs, or single parent households, or children in broken or toxic or abusive families? Not every child comes from a home equipped to teach them about balancing checks and loan interests. It's such a travesty. Teach financial literacy in grade school. All the way through graduation.

I am the pp and I totally agree. I think kids who want to go to college should be required to take a course on the impact of student loans. Along with all the other financial literacy topics necessary to be a contributing member of society.

People in our country do not understand basic economics. Are people not required to take an economics course in college?

People who have take economics in college probably realize that college economics has nothing to do with personal finance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fix the system, don’t put a useless bandaid on problematic outcomes. Typical democrat strategy to buy votes but fix nothing.

Republicans aren’t talking about it all. No solutions.
Just nothing.

There is nothing to discuss. People willing took out loans, so they need to repay their debt. The end.

Once again, these loans prey on kids. A 17 or 18 year old does not understand what they are getting into. And nobody explains to them that $60k in loans will end up costing them several hundred thousand over the course of their life. I watched my own kids get offers and accept loans. None of this was laid out for them.

There were a lot of 17 and 18 year olds at my state school who didn't take out $60k in loans. Sorry that other 17 and 18 year old were chasing status and paid full freight at ritzy private schools.

PG Community College is $6k/year. If you're household income is $100k or less, it's free.


60k is full pay at a state school.......not private. And 60k of unsubsidized loans is easily 80-100k by graduation.

PGCC is a state school. Also, UMD tuition is $10,779. Sorry that some people chose GW or AU, but that's on you not me.

PGCC is a community college. It does not provide a bachelors degree and for any other degree like nursing, it requires 2 years of pre-reqs PLUS 2 years of nursing courses so 4 years. The tuition is 6kx4- 24k. UMD is 11kx4= 44k. This does not include transportation, housing, food, lab fees, books, personal needs, etc. PGCC own website states that the cost of attendance per year for students living with family is 17.5k compared to 25.5k if you are not living with family so....100k for 4 year nursing degree assuming 30k working full-time first two year (60k) and nothing or negligible during nursing because you are told not to work (ask me how I know) and you still end up with 40k for CC degree. Even if your income pays all of your non-tuition costs its still 24k in loans, which when compounded daily starting from 6 months past the loan origination date is at least 35-40k. If all the cards go in your favor and you have family to subsidize your living costs.

UMD is 11233 per year starting this fall so without any yearly increases during 4 years it is 45k in tuition and fees alone. Room and Board or Rent and Food is 7k per semester plus summer if you are not privileged enough to have a house to go home to during the summer is easily 20k X4=80K. Show me a college kid making 40k after taxes while going to school full-time (exemption for these random CS interns apparently making 75/hour). Median independent full-time student income is 14k per year in 2015-2016, assume increases of even 5k and you get to 20k x 4=80k, still leaving you 45k in loans plus everything outside of tuition, rent, and food. Transportation, personal products, clothing, hygiene products, healthcare costs, cell phone bill, car insurance with car, bus pass or metro pass, gas, utilities, etc. Easily 20k over 4 years.

If you start from the assumption that everyone is like you or your kids who have a home and parents who support you, it is hard to understand where most kids are coming from when they take out significant loans to attend state schools. Even just having somewhere to go during the summer is a privilege that saves money because it is likely that that family buys clothes, toilet paper, food, etc. for their kid as well.

Corrections to your numbers above-

PGCC (MOnt. College is likely similar) https://www.pgcc.edu/media/wwwpgccedu/content-assets/paying-for-college/financial-aid/forms-and-documents/2022-23-FINAL-Cost-of-Attendance-Budgets.pdf

1. The tuition, fees, and books costs come out to be $6000. Maryland a promise Scholarship (available to all families that make less than $100k (single parent AGI $150k two parent AGI) covers $5000 of that. An argument should be made that it shouldn’t be last dólar funding for student recipients of Pell Grants, but that’s a different argument.

2. Your figures include $7000+ for living with a parent. Plus $2000 for transportation costs and $2000 for personal expenses. I’m not sure everyone agrees that room and board (especially when living with a parent) should be free to all students. Why provide free housing to students at community colleges snd not free housing to 18-22 year olds that are engaged in an apprenticeship or workforce training program? The transportation cost is $2000 alone. While I agree that public transportation should be free to kids (like DC’s Kids Ride Free) I suspect that cost assumes car ownership. People often point to Europe has places for tuition free schools, but students still need to pay for living expenses there. Some communities in Europe are experimenting with providing free student housing in exchange for providing living support to the senior community either in their houses or in assisted living facilities. Maybe consider that rather than free housing without requirements.

3. By all means, stabilize tuition increases, increase Pell Grants, expend Maryland promise Scholarships, provide better public transportation options, but canceling student loans doesn’t fix anything moving forward. That’s the piece that’s necessary to fix.

And if your parents make over 150k and dont provide any assistance....thats where full cost comes to bear. Some of yall again assume that everyone elses parents do the right thing. No grants, all loans, no housing providing by parents. Do the math for that.

It is so funny to me the garbage that is spilled about adults being adults at 18. Let your kids grow up! And then you cant even fathom a middle class family not paying for some or most of a 18-22 year olds expenses. Going to college solo with no grants is expensive- even at state schools.

[Anonymous]

Remember when there was going to be some plan to address college affordability? Whatever happened to that?

[Anonymous]

LOL. This didn't go quite as she was hoping......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember when there was going to be some plan to address college affordability? Whatever happened to that?

That would actually be a tremendous, generational boon to Americans but it's easier to just call for a useless one-off debt cancelation and play to your base and buy a few more votes. Politicians are all garbage but the current administration is particularly idiotic and nakedly self-serving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should working class people who had NOTHING TO DO with these loans bail out those who made bad decisions?

The working class are the ones getting bailed out by $10K forgiveness. The government has my tax monies and I want some of it back.

The working class who never went to college? Nope. Try again.
We have tens of millions of people barely keeping their heads above water because of Biden's recession.... they didn't go to college... and you want THEM to bail out those who did?

NO WAY!

Nurses are working class. Teachers are working class. Social workers are working class. People who started college but didn’t finish are definitely working class.

Or are only white guys in $60K pickup the “real” working class Americans?

You cant lump in college dropouts with teachers and nurses. Many college dropouts make a lot of money.

My neighbor never went to college. Shortly after high school, he went to prison. He lives in a multimillion dollar house with an infinity pool and a basketball court and sends his kids to private school. You can say that broadly speaking, people who go to college tend to earn more. But you cant make "definite" statements about the financial prospects of people who dont go to college.

DP. I have no clue what point you are trying to make in the context of a discussion about student debt.

That the idea that college is a prerequisite for success is not true. There is a strong correlation. But its still a choice you can opt out of and still do well.

What does that have to do with nurses, teachers and social workers being working class?

Nothing. The pp I was responding to brought up nurses and teachers.

However, the fact that 4 years of college brings you a working class salary (in those cases) is an excellent argument againsy the ROI of college. You'd be better off attending a coding boot camp.

How well do you think society would work with no nurses, teachers or social workers?

Why not pay off the loans of nurses, teachers, and social workers?

I think we absolutely need changes to our higher education system to make it feasible for people to get the degrees they need to do these jobs without being impoverished by the debt afterward. We could find a way to pay these professions better, or we can find a way to make education more affordable. But that doesn't do a lot for the people already working in those professions and carrying the associated debt, so I would support debt relief for them. But I'm also not opposed to student debt relief generally.

Why not pay of all of the debt for nurses, teachers and social workers instead of paying off only some for then paying off the debt for physicians, lawyers, accountants, and misc. business majors?

Because tons of lawyers and business majors in this country make working class wages.

How do you not get this yet?

lul, wut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should working class people who had NOTHING TO DO with these loans bail out those who made bad decisions?

The working class are the ones getting bailed out by $10K forgiveness. The government has my tax monies and I want some of it back.

The working class who never went to college? Nope. Try again.
We have tens of millions of people barely keeping their heads above water because of Biden's recession.... they didn't go to college... and you want THEM to bail out those who did?

NO WAY!

Nurses are working class. Teachers are working class. Social workers are working class. People who started college but didn’t finish are definitely working class.

Or are only white guys in $60K pickup the “real” working class Americans?

You cant lump in college dropouts with teachers and nurses. Many college dropouts make a lot of money.

My neighbor never went to college. Shortly after high school, he went to prison. He lives in a multimillion dollar house with an infinity pool and a basketball court and sends his kids to private school. You can say that broadly speaking, people who go to college tend to earn more. But you cant make "definite" statements about the financial prospects of people who dont go to college.

DP. I have no clue what point you are trying to make in the context of a discussion about student debt.

That the idea that college is a prerequisite for success is not true. There is a strong correlation. But its still a choice you can opt out of and still do well.

What does that have to do with nurses, teachers and social workers being working class?

Nothing. The pp I was responding to brought up nurses and teachers.

However, the fact that 4 years of college brings you a working class salary (in those cases) is an excellent argument againsy the ROI of college. You'd be better off attending a coding boot camp.

How well do you think society would work with no nurses, teachers or social workers?

Why not pay off the loans of nurses, teachers, and social workers?

I think we absolutely need changes to our higher education system to make it feasible for people to get the degrees they need to do these jobs without being impoverished by the debt afterward. We could find a way to pay these professions better, or we can find a way to make education more affordable. But that doesn't do a lot for the people already working in those professions and carrying the associated debt, so I would support debt relief for them. But I'm also not opposed to student debt relief generally.

Why not pay of all of the debt for nurses, teachers and social workers instead of paying off only some for then paying off the debt for physicians, lawyers, accountants, and misc. business majors?

Because tons of lawyers and business majors in this country make working class wages.

How do you not get this yet?

lul, wut?

Cry me a river. Median salary of lawyers is ~$128k/year. https://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm

Median income of Americans is around $44k.

[Anonymous]

There would be more people voting against democrats for cancelling debt than new voters voting for them for cancelling the debt.

They either need to give money to everyone for any debt they choose or make in state tuition free for state colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There would be more people voting against democrats for cancelling debt than new voters voting for them for cancelling the debt.

They either need to give money to everyone for any debt they choose or make in state tuition free for state colleges.

That ought to help with inflation!!!!

And, make tuition free for state colleges? Nothing is free. You mean, the government would pay for it?
What do you suppose that would do to the cost of college, pp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL. This didn't go quite as she was hoping......

Americans are selfish. What else is new?