$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finish it out OP. 80k won’t mean very much in 10 years. You’re clearly qualified enough to get a job at a big tech firm — meaning your earning potential will outstrip that 80k very soon. Part of that earning potential could very well depend on that Ivy degree. I’ve found job interviews significantly easier with a degree on my resume.

Your bigger issue is your misery, but 3 semesters is not very long in the grand scheme of things. Please try to take classes that you want to take (art, literature, film — whatever calls to you!). If your parents are no longer paying, that should alleviate guilt about taking what you want at school and doing what you want to do. After school, try to pay off those loans as soon as you can. A boring job is not the end of the work. A boring job can enable you to do things you enjoy doing outside of work. Focus on the happy in your life, and best of luck.

OP here. I thought this too when I took my internship this summer in tech sales at a FAANG. It turns out that having a job I hate also affects my happiness outside of work -- being miserable at my job makes me unable to rest, sleep, or be happy in my waking hours outside of work. Also, if I take out $80k in loans, I'll have to work way more than 40 hrs/week to pay it off -- leaving me with little to no free time post-grad.

If I didn't have the threat of loans hanging over my head (and currently, I don't have any student loans in my name at all; I would have to take them out for my last 3 semesters at Columbia), I'd go into a low-paying but meaningful job in either publishing or environmental education. Hating a 40 hr/week job, to me, is like hating almost all of your waking hours, so I think I'm fine going to a cheaper, less prestigious school and taking on less debt so I can pursue something that makes me genuinely happy instead of hating myself at FAANG or MBB or BB IB or law school.

You can target lower comp than FAANG sale, project manager at cap1 for example, pays 90k at 3-5 year exp and you work from home for 25hr/week in their back office function (risk and ops).
Low paying job isn’t automatically meaningful. Plenty of low paying jobs have harassment, bad work environment and toxic losers who prey on minority women.
Startups also look for office managers (jack of all trades), you will do a touch of marketing, HR and product. You make around 60k but it’s enough to pay off your debt and live in the Shenandoah.
If you wait until 24 and do smith, your job prospects are going to be similar except you will be 27 and your colleagues will be 23.

+1 million

I wish young people would understand this. Those low-paying jobs have a TON of abuse and gaslighting because "don't you support the MISSION?!" is always thrown in your face when you bring it up. Lots of nonprofits are toxic cesspools hiding under a fragile veneer of respectability and build taking advantage of young and naive folks, both as employees and volunteers to churn through, into their operating model. Sotheby's/Chrtistie's are another shitshow entirely.

+2 million

This. The highest paying jobs I've had have been the easiest, and most respectful of me and my time. Not to say they weren't pretty awful at times, but it was WAY worse at lower-paying places.

+3 million

Some of the higher-paying places can be demanding, too, but damn if the mental damage from those lower-paying jobs doesn't stunt a lot of people professionally for a few years.

OP here. Can you talk more about this? No worries if it's too traumatizing for you or too painful to talk about; I've just never really heard about NPO trauma (if that's a phrase, lol)

NPOs can be very abusive workplaces - and they justify it because everyone's there because they are so dedicated to the mission. A lot of low paying but glamorous professions - I know, lol, but yes - like politics, arts, publishing, media, nonprofits, can be abusive like that. And you won't always hear about it because the worlds they exist in are so small and interconnected that no one wants to speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My personal advice would be to tell your parents you will only go back if they pay half of that $80k. So you will take a max of $40k in loans.

Another idea is to try to do a year abroad or even be a visiting student at one of the colleges you like. Check with your advisor at Columbia (there are rules about how many credits you need to earn at the graduating school and how many of those credits must be consecutive before graduation) and some of the colleges. Here's Smith's program:

https://www.smith.edu/admission-aid/how-apply/visiting-year

Another related idea is to get permission to do a summer at another college) and maybe see if Columbia will give you internship credit and try to whittle down your time there to 2-3 semesters instead of 3-4.

Harvard's summer program has lots of 4 credit classes and Cambridge is very pleasant in the summer.

https://summer.harvard.edu/

These are great ideas. Also look into whether you could do summer school in California for cheap and transfer the credits back to Columbia. You might be able to get out in fewer semesters than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal advice would be to tell your parents you will only go back if they pay half of that $80k. So you will take a max of $40k in loans.

Another idea is to try to do a year abroad or even be a visiting student at one of the colleges you like. Check with your advisor at Columbia (there are rules about how many credits you need to earn at the graduating school and how many of those credits must be consecutive before graduation) and some of the colleges. Here's Smith's program:

https://www.smith.edu/admission-aid/how-apply/visiting-year

Another related idea is to get permission to do a summer at another college) and maybe see if Columbia will give you internship credit and try to whittle down your time there to 2-3 semesters instead of 3-4.

Harvard's summer program has lots of 4 credit classes and Cambridge is very pleasant in the summer.

https://summer.harvard.edu/

These are great ideas. Also look into whether you could do summer school in California for cheap and transfer the credits back to Columbia. You might be able to get out in fewer semesters than you think.

OP here. I asked my academic advisor about this, but she said that it wasn't a possibility. Columbia, like most of the Ivies, only accepts credits from classes taken at Columbia or from an approved study abroad program. Taking classes at community college or at a state school won't make my path to graduation faster or cheaper, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

How long will they let you stay on a leave of absence before you have to drop out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

How long will they let you stay on a leave of absence before you have to drop out?

2 years, but technically after the two years, I can apply for an extension for the leave of absence. But I feel like at that point I'd be better off just dropping out...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

How long will they let you stay on a leave of absence before you have to drop out?

2 years, but technically after the two years, I can apply for an extension for the leave of absence. But I feel like at that point I'd be better off just dropping out...

It would make a lot of sense to apply for an extension— and keep that door open, should you need it as an option — at least until you are firmly established in your academic and/or career path. A year —or three — from now, you might be in a very different place, with very difficult goals. Don’t cut of your options if you don’t have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

How long will they let you stay on a leave of absence before you have to drop out?

2 years, but technically after the two years, I can apply for an extension for the leave of absence. But I feel like at that point I'd be better off just dropping out...

It would make a lot of sense to apply for an extension— and keep that door open, should you need it as an option — at least until you are firmly established in your academic and/or career path. A year —or three — from now, you might be in a very different place, with very difficult goals. Don’t cut of your options if you don’t have to.

+1 I am the one who asked how long you have, and I agree with this. I am all for setting out on a path that is right for you - and isn't going to make you miserable - but don't burn bridges before they need burning. Take the leave for as long as you've got, to at least leave that door open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

OP is depressed because her life isn’t her own. She accomplished most of it by being in a fast current built by her parents. She is successful for her age but she never had control, never thought about her own goals, never figured out what made her unhappy vs happy.

OP and go out fail fast and bounce back, or she can stay where is she mistakenly thinking about all the anti-parent behavior will dug her out of this hole (it won’t).

OP here. You nailed my current predicament. But taking out $80k in loans is not conducive to "failing fast" -- it means that I would have to gun for a high-paying but soul-sucking, competitive job after graduation if I wanted to chip away at the principle.

I will almost certainly be graduating into a recession. I thought about how Columbia alumni who graduated in 2008 who also took out an enormous amount of student loans felt 14 years ago -- they probably would've told their high school self to go to a cheaper school and minimize student debt. As someone who will probably be in their shoes post-grad, I'm much better off trying to finish college in a way that leaves me with little to no debt than borrowing an enormous amount of money for a fancy degree.

Last night, I laid in bed wondering what my future would be like if I stayed at Columbia. I'd borrow the $80k, work for some consultancy post-grad, and be absolutely miserable. PP, you're right that I'm depressed because my life isn't my own. I didn't have any agency in my childhood, and I won't have any agency in the future if I take out this much in loans. I know this will make me even more depressed, so it's best if I cut this off right now while I don't have any student debt.

The only reason to take a high-paying job you hate, IMO, is if you have children to support (not me, obviously, and I don't plan on having kids in the future), extended family members to support (my parents don't need me to help out with finances now that their HHI is $200k/year), or a large amount of student debt (which I'm trying to avoid). As long as I can avoid those three things, I'm fine starting out with a lower-paying job and working my way up the latter into something that's medium-paying in the long-run. Sure, I'll never make as much money as the MBB/BB IB/ FAANG/Big Law folks, but I know I'll be much happier doing things my own way.

Is it possible to take a leave of absence while you breathe through this a bit? Does it have to be dropping out or taking out the $80k in loans, today?

I am sorry you're going through this. As someone who graduated Columbia Law with $160k in debt, never wanting to be a lawyer and hating the profession, those loans are no fun even if the school makes people think you're something special.

To clarify, I'm on a leave of absence and I've been on one since January

How long will they let you stay on a leave of absence before you have to drop out?

2 years, but technically after the two years, I can apply for an extension for the leave of absence. But I feel like at that point I'd be better off just dropping out...

It would make a lot of sense to apply for an extension— and keep that door open, should you need it as an option — at least until you are firmly established in your academic and/or career path. A year —or three — from now, you might be in a very different place, with very difficult goals. Don’t cut of your options if you don’t have to.

Oops. That should have been “very different goals”. I hope they’re not too difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

If you only have three semester left,you can do it. Just take easy classes and finish. I don’t think the seven sisters schools will be the cure. There are C students from ivies that do fine. I think let go of the pressure, coast your way through, and just finish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

If you only have three semester left,you can do it. Just take easy classes and finish. I don’t think the seven sisters schools will be the cure. There are C students from ivies that do fine. I think let go of the pressure, coast your way through, and just finish.

NP here, did you not read the part where OP has to take out $80k in loans to finish? That's hardly letting go of the pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal advice would be to tell your parents you will only go back if they pay half of that $80k. So you will take a max of $40k in loans.

Another idea is to try to do a year abroad or even be a visiting student at one of the colleges you like. Check with your advisor at Columbia (there are rules about how many credits you need to earn at the graduating school and how many of those credits must be consecutive before graduation) and some of the colleges. Here's Smith's program:

https://www.smith.edu/admission-aid/how-apply/visiting-year

Another related idea is to get permission to do a summer at another college) and maybe see if Columbia will give you internship credit and try to whittle down your time there to 2-3 semesters instead of 3-4.

Harvard's summer program has lots of 4 credit classes and Cambridge is very pleasant in the summer.

https://summer.harvard.edu/

These are great ideas. Also look into whether you could do summer school in California for cheap and transfer the credits back to Columbia. You might be able to get out in fewer semesters than you think.

OP here. I asked my academic advisor about this, but she said that it wasn't a possibility. Columbia, like most of the Ivies, only accepts credits from classes taken at Columbia or from an approved study abroad program. Taking classes at community college or at a state school won't make my path to graduation faster or cheaper, unfortunately.

I’m the original poster. Do a study abroad! Look at the approved programs. They’re not going to approve a community college but there’s a very good chance they’ll approve a summer at another Ivy that offers summer classes or a semester or two as a visiting student at a peer school, like the ones you like. Find a program you like there, a professor you want to study with, contact the professor and go back to your Columbia advisor with the pitch and how this experience will complement your Columbia experience.

Also, have you checked with the colleges you like to make sure they won’t require parents’ info once you turn 24? I know Fafsa considers you an independent at 24yo but my kid was 24yo her senior year at a top nescac school and parents’ info was required for the CSS. The other issue is you might lose a lot of credits transferring. I really would look into the study away options to minimize your time on the Columbia campus - and tell your parents you will only return if they split the $80k with you.

[Anonymous]

^^ Ugh! Sorry - I’m obviously not the OP. I’m just the person suggesting the study abroad/ visiting student / internship to shorten your time on campus. Even an independent study could help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

If you only have three semester left,you can do it. Just take easy classes and finish. I don’t think the seven sisters schools will be the cure. There are C students from ivies that do fine. I think let go of the pressure, coast your way through, and just finish.

NP here, did you not read the part where OP has to take out $80k in loans to finish? That's hardly letting go of the pressure.

But finishing will lead to a job to pay back those loans. From my perspective I think there will be a lot less pressure when she’s done, rather than continue to have it hanging over her during a leave of absence. Just trying to help but everyone’s got their own POV.