Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
The girls learn that long before rush. Their moms have been grooming them for rush for 5 years at that point.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
The girls learn that long before rush. Their moms have been grooming them for rush for 5 years at that point.
True. And then the sororities provide additional training and practice.
Anonymous wrote:Rush is a tough process and yet can also be bonding for the girls going through it together. I think it is normal for girls to change their minds throughout the process and a sign of resilience in a way to be able to get excited about the houses that want them, instead of pining for the ones that they got dropped by.
Really sad state of mind---to force yourself to get excited about the houses that want them. How about just making friends like normal people. The social anxiety caused by rush process is astounding. It's not really a normal two way street---it's the sorority members selecting who they like based on 5 mins with a girl, not really a good indicator of what a person is really like, which isn't needed because half the "selection criteria" is superficial (looks, money/background, how you dress, etc).
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
the sororities that take all comers are the ones giving the 'training' that PP referred to
Anonymous wrote:I'm an alumni of a big state school sorority. I am also a former national officer. The "rec letter" is now an online form. It helps, but really only to get invited back to the second day. What is most important is your daughter's grades and extracurricular activities and volunteering. There are enough party girls going through recruitment and what sororities want are well rounded women who aren't going to flunk out. The biggest reason people get "cut" is grades and attitude. My cousin is a 4.0 honors student, in one or two activities. But her social skills are that of an elementary school student. she can't make small talk and she has a hard time engaging others in conversation. She was cut even during spring rush and even with my rec letter and my good friends. So it's not all about connections.
My parents were first generation college students and I'm from a blue collar, working class background. I had decent grades and a lot of leadership activities. My dad's law partners wrote letters of rec and I had a lot of older friends in different sororities. The sororities I liked most were not these ones. I found one that was more diverse and inclusive and more welcoming.
For people saying that sororities are not inclusive, you are full of it. I went to a southern state school. My sorority in the 1990s had Black, Asian and Latina women. Several of my pledge sisters were openly LGBTQIA. We had Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, atheists, politically conservative and progressive. Socially conservative and free spirits. Athletic women, artistic women, women who love to volunteer, party girls, slackers, etc.
The best thing about a sorority is the networking. When I moved to a new place and started my professional career, it helped me immensley. I met a lot of my best friends from my sorority. Sure there were a few "mean girls" but the majority of the women in my sorority were awesome: an Olympic athlete, patented a medical device, started a nonprofit, started a small business, etc. All while college students. I worked two jobs while paying for college on my own. Sororities are way more affordable than the dorms or apartments at big state schools. I had parking and a safe clean place to live. I loved it!
Sororities are by their very nature exclusionary, not inclusive. In your own story, a young woman who is very likely neurodiverse was cut just because of who she is. But you can’t even see that.
+1000 I cannot believe pp's post. Who would talk about their cousin like that?? I honestly want to give her a hug.
I recall freshman sorority rush at my Big 10 school over 30 years ago (the smallest Big 10 school but still had 40% greek at that point). Rush happened during New student week---it started 2 days after you set foot on campus. I had an upfront view to this as I resided (much to my dismay--I hadn't asked for it) in THE biggest social/party dorm on campus in the center of the frat quad. Watching all 50 girls on my floor rush except 2 of us was quite entertaining. These new freshman were so desperate for someone to "like them./accept them". Their list of what they wanted changed daily, based on the results from the previous night's rush events==="I love XYZ on Monday and CDE is really not my place. Come Tuesday when XYZ cut you and CDE put you thru to next round---"OMG, I'm in love with CDE". There poor girls had not had time to meet people on campus except in their dorm and were trying so desperately to find their place. IMO, freshman should not be allowed to rush until spring semester----give the kids a chance to make their own friends, adjust to college life in all aspects, then let them decide if they want to rush. I watched girls on my floor who had started becoming friends the first 2 days, really stop being friends after rush, because they ended up in different sororities and "typically girls from sorority A don't hang out with girls from Sorority B"---I kid you not, this was conveyed so many times in the first month of school. At least if you wait until spring semester, kids will have the opportunity to develop their own social circle and then decide if rushing is for them. The whole process before classes even started just seemed unhealthy
I rushed as a Soph (and it was nothing like what is described here). I never was friends with the girls on my dorm floor. Lots of people were but lots were not.
And as for your observations of "desperation", LOTS of people want to be accepted, find friends, etc. etc. Seems pretty smug and judgmental of yourself to put it as you have in this post. EVERYONE wants to find their place.
As for what sororities they liked/didn't like - what's it to you? People adjust preferences based on the options before them all the time. Finally the bit about not hanging out with girls from another sorority was not my experience at all. But, even if it is where you were, I mean, so what? That's likely a function of immaturity that changes with time and it is something that exists in lots of groups.
No skin off my back. But having lived in a dorm where 98% of students went greek during new student week, on a campus that was only 40% greek, and I was not going greek (not my thing for so many reasons), I had unique insight into the process. Yes, people want to fit in. Those girls were doing a good job of finding friends and "fitting in" the 2 days before rush started. Using the normal process for how 18yo make new friends. But once Rush started everything in their life was about Rush. It's cruel and demeaning for 18yo to go thru this process so early in the college process. They had been on campus for TWO DAYS! How about let them adjust to being at college and make friends in a less structured, cruel manner. They were all highly social people and were capable of that. Instead they played the games of the rush system. Switching opinions on what one wants simply because group A (the group on Monday that was your top choice) has decided you don't fit for them, after less than 30 mins of 5 girls from Sorority A talking to you, so then that girl switches direction to whomever "accepts" them. That is NOT normal way to make friends---at least not in my life as a teen, young adult and now much older adult. I certainly don't want my kids thinking they should let others dictate who they are friends with. That is why Rush in Spring semester is a much, much better idea. At that point the kid has adjusted to college, academics, learned to make friends when put in a new situation, perhaps being hundreds of miles from home and not knowing anyone. Then the Rush process would not be quite as cruel (but it still could be). At least then they have had the opportunity to find their place at college themselves, not based on 5 min "interviews". Freshman Fall Rush is not healthy for college students.
Sorority/Fraternity Rush is NOT a normal, healthy process. Feeling that you are a "failure" before classes even start freshman year because you didn't get into any sorority or only got into a "bottom tier sorority" is not necessary
No one is forcing the kids to participate. They can opt out as freshmen (like I did) or go straight into it. They also know the rules, whether explicitly state or not. They are judging the girls on lots of things and you (as the person rushing) know that. So I fail to see how it is cruel in any way to people who WANT to be subjected to the process. Or how wanting to fit in is any different for the girls rushing, or any other kid that age.
Because it is not healthy! Any 18yo attending college is capable of making friends on their own. Let's let them do that for first semester/quarter, then once they are settled let them decide if they want to rush. Teens want to fit in; obviously no one if forcing them to rush, but peer pressure makes them feel that this is the only way to be "popular" and to be with the "in crowd". They are judging girls on a lot of things, but many of those things are not normal/healthy.
My own kids wont rush (one didn't, the other heads off to college this fall and likely wont). They have never been one to "follow the crowd". Youngest has a good friend who is with THE "in crowd" at HS and finds it quite sad that this friend doesn't really do things with my DC while at school because it's not cool to associate with anyone not in the "popular crowd". My DC couldn't care less, but has watched this friend at Homecoming be ditched by her "popular group" and this friend wanders around aimlessly and upset at Homecoming but won't hang with my DC's group (who are all friends with this girl outside of school) because of the perceived effects of doing this. This girl was literally hanging out alone at Homecoming in 10th grade because of this.
Note: my kid is not in the "popular group", but she's well liked by most kids and has tons of friends, she just doesn't care about doing things to appease the popular crowd, she's always been like this and happy to have a group of real friends---she literally hasn't had any girl drama in MS/HS and is still friends with everyone she's hung with since 6th grade (we moved for start of 6th grade). She and her friends support each other and would never ditch a friend at an event/leave them alone to fend for themselves. Their group even attempted to get the other friend to join them at Homecoming but she wouldn't.
So, I view alot of sororities/frats as a continuation of this HS mentality. So I just find it healthier to allow students to adjust to college for a semester and then let them Rush. Note: my college adjusted this by my junior year for this exact reason.
Your youngest sounds like my girl. Not caring about what and who is popular, a solid and diverse (incl. interests) friend group that supports each other and others, and no drama throughout her school time.
Yes, and it's definately a refreshing way to go thru MS/HS for a girl. Ironically, if you ask her older sibling, she is "very popular" based on what sibling hears from others in HS (sibling is 4 years ahead finishing college, yet they say everyone knows and likes the younger sibling). But it's really just that she's a nice, friendly kid who includes everyone and others want to be around, helps others with schoolwork if needed, etc. Key is that she doesn't care about whether she's popular or not, she just picks friends who are good people, support each other, and are fun to be around. She's always been that way. In ES I'd ask if she was friends with X or Y and she responded that she's nice to them and they like her but X and Y are very popular and not always nice to a lot of people, in fact they would bully some kids, so she doesn't really want to be friends or hang with them. She learned early on who the queen b's were and who was mean to others in an attempt to climb the social ladder and she didn't want any part of it. She was happier to have a smaller group of great friends who had her back. For that I am incredibly thankful as it has made the teen years enjoyable for the most part.
Anonymous wrote:Rush is a tough process and yet can also be bonding for the girls going through it together. I think it is normal for girls to change their minds throughout the process and a sign of resilience in a way to be able to get excited about the houses that want them, instead of pining for the ones that they got dropped by.
Really sad state of mind---to force yourself to get excited about the houses that want them. How about just making friends like normal people. The social anxiety caused by rush process is astounding. It's not really a normal two way street---it's the sorority members selecting who they like based on 5 mins with a girl, not really a good indicator of what a person is really like, which isn't needed because half the "selection criteria" is superficial (looks, money/background, how you dress, etc).
The houses have information about grades and leadership positions and extracurricular activities for every single potential new member. And it's more like a 3-6 hour interview process.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
Link? And pretty sure not every school with sororities is affiliated with NPC.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
the sororities that take all comers are the ones giving the 'training' that PP referred to
Every sorority has membershp development programs. Every single one.
Anonymous wrote:Rush is a tough process and yet can also be bonding for the girls going through it together. I think it is normal for girls to change their minds throughout the process and a sign of resilience in a way to be able to get excited about the houses that want them, instead of pining for the ones that they got dropped by.
Really sad state of mind---to force yourself to get excited about the houses that want them. How about just making friends like normal people. The social anxiety caused by rush process is astounding. It's not really a normal two way street---it's the sorority members selecting who they like based on 5 mins with a girl, not really a good indicator of what a person is really like, which isn't needed because half the "selection criteria" is superficial (looks, money/background, how you dress, etc).
The houses have information about grades and leadership positions and extracurricular activities for every single potential new member. And it's more like a 3-6 hour interview process.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
You still don't get it. Not every girl is capable of physically (especially in summer weather and walking around a big campus) completing recruitment. Not every girl can afford the rush application fee, clothing, or dues. Not every girl has experiences to share that wouldn't depress the other girls.
Anonymous wrote:I find it sort of hilarious that DCUM loves asking about how to dress WASPy and what and what isn't classy, and how to appear upper class, but loses its mind when faced with the prospect of sorority recruitment because it's too white and too elitist. Ya'll better pull the mote out of your own eye.
The same people who like greek life as it is are the ones who want to look ''classy.''
No. People who are in sororities don't need to ask an anonymous message board how to dress, act, network or decorate. Sororities do an excellent job providing this training.
Awesome! More young women should be allowed into sororities, then. We could all use that training.
Every NPC rush in the country guarantees a bid for every young woman who completes recruitment. It may not be a bid to her first choice, but everyone gets a bid. Placement rates at even the most competitive campuses is over 90%. Many of the people who don't get bids drop out early because they don't like the choices they have left. It's not that the sororities cut young women. It's that young women cut sororities because they had their heart set on a "top tier" sorority and didn't get invited back and weren't willing to accept a bid from a "lesser" sorority.
don't know about NPC but I do know that there are absolutely schools that guarantee a bid if you continue through the rush process and don't suicide bid. As PP noted, the problem is that many girls drop out simply because they got cut by the "popular" houses. Also, once cut, if the girl drops out of rush, she's eligible for COB (continuous open bidding) and even heard of girls getting into houses that dropped them during formal rush. SO the net net, is there is room for everyone who is interested, but the girls have to be just as open minded as you want the houses to be and not have pre-conceived notions about a particular house because it's not "top tier" (which is again meaningless and those are not really the best houses just the most popular)
Completely agree. It’s a terrible way to begin an enormous change at 18. Beginning your first semester away from home at what should be a really exciting time to be independent and discovering your school with either the extra pressure of pledge commitments or depression from a week of disappointment and rejection is cruel.
Completely agree, it's a gross system and cruel process to go through at an incredibly vulnerable time for young women. Imagine moving to a new neighborhood and starting a new job where you don't yet know where you fit in or who you want to be. Instead of meeting nice normal people in a natural way in your new environment, you have to be interviewed (on Zoom camera for hours the last couple of years) and then quite often rejected after you tried your hardest putting on a fake enthused persona with strangers. It can be devastating to girls. Why do grown adults condone or perpetuate this sick system?
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