The Urgency of Normal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new normal. It's never going back to the old days.

Good luck with that. If normal doesn't come back soon we're going to see repeats of the 2021 VA Gov. election nationally, in 2022 and 2024.

Do you want President Desantis? Because this is how you get President Desantis!

Even if we had Desantis for Prez, we can't wish Covid away by taking our masks off. This virus is going to keep mutating and coming back around again and again. Not wearing a mask is not going to make it go away. In fact, it will help spread it. Not even Desantis can make Covid go away. Even he has enough respect for it that he got vaxxed. He just doesn't want to admit it.

I have news for you: wearing masks (especially in schools) hasn't made COVID go away either. And the simple fact is that if we're still having this debate in 2024, and there is one candidate of "5-10 day quarantines and double masking! We're almost there!" and one candidate of "stay home if you feel sick", it's not going to be close. And you can't wish that away by thinking people are suddenly going to go back into lockdown and be cool with masks until we "beat" COVID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

+1 same

I was ok with the restrictions on kids (for the most part) when everything else was restricted too (especially pre vaccine). At this point, in my area and many others, the ONLY restrictions are on kids (and certain large events like concerts). We don’t even have a mask mandate anymore. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

What country did you live in?? In this one, we had a completely incompetent president whose administration failed to maintain the national stockpiles of those supplies and deliberately prevented tests from being developed because he didn't want Americans to know the real numbers. THAT's why we didn't do those things. There were no masks, there were no tests, there was no leadership. There was nothing. Schools had no choice but to close because there were no other options available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

+1 same

I was ok with the restrictions on kids (for the most part) when everything else was restricted too (especially pre vaccine). At this point, in my area and many others, the ONLY restrictions are on kids (and certain large events like concerts). We don’t even have a mask mandate anymore. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

I don't see a mask mandate as a restriction. What other kids restrictions are there?? Our school has some that are intended to protect the youngest children, who can't get vaccinated, but really there aren't many. Of course, we are now in private. But there are still not large events going on. I wish there were. It's not the govt, it's just that people don't feel comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

+1 same

I was ok with the restrictions on kids (for the most part) when everything else was restricted too (especially pre vaccine). At this point, in my area and many others, the ONLY restrictions are on kids (and certain large events like concerts). We don’t even have a mask mandate anymore. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

I don't see a mask mandate as a restriction. What other kids restrictions are there?? Our school has some that are intended to protect the youngest children, who can't get vaccinated, but really there aren't many. Of course, we are now in private. But there are still not large events going on. I wish there were. It's not the govt, it's just that people don't feel comfortable.

OMG, well, kids are masked; have to sit apart from each other; get punished if their mask is below the nose; have weird rules about when they can pee, drink water, and do just about everything else that's normal; lunch is silent and only 10 minutes long, max; they get tested constantly; they are being told they are disease vectors, etc etc etc. I'm talking about my first-grader who now has anxiety about all of that, and therefore is having behavioral challenges and wants to avoid school. Simultaneously he can't hear the teachers half the time, and complains that he can't remember English letter sounds because he can't understand the teacher.

*cue the "you are a bad parent" etc etc etc trolls*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

What country did you live in?? In this one, we had a completely incompetent president whose administration failed to maintain the national stockpiles of those supplies and deliberately prevented tests from being developed because he didn't want Americans to know the real numbers. THAT's why we didn't do those things. There were no masks, there were no tests, there was no leadership. There was nothing. Schools had no choice but to close because there were no other options available.

Trump was/is terrible, but he had nothing to do with any of the things you're complaining about.

The strategic national stockpile de-emphasized masks starting in 2009: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/face-masks-in-national-stockpile-have-not-been-substantially-replenished-since-2009/2020/03/10/57e57316-60c9-11ea-8baf-519cedb6ccd9_story.html

The CDC asserted the sole and exclusive right to develop diagnostic PCR tests in March 2020, put out a test kit that didn't work: https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-officials-knew-coronavirus-test-was-flawed-but-released-it-anyway

And the FDA decided that COVID testing was a "medical device" and therefore asserted jurisdiction, forcing research labs all over the country to stop offering their services: https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/15/diagnostic-tests-shortages-fda-decision/

If you think Trump was the only reason the US couldn't get it together with a COVID response, you are letting a whole slew of incompetent, arrogant bureaucrats off the hook.

[Anonymous]

Just had this convo with my DH and wanted to share a few things. This is all focused on younger kids (age 3 to 6 or so) because that's our situation.

We really do need to start talking about cumulative effects, and when people say that a measure has no cost, or little cost, we need to push back on what that cost is when the measure is implemented over and over, or is ongoing.

This came up because another parent said to my DH that the Pfizer vaccine for under 5s has "no cost", so we should do it even if it turns out it doesn't work, for our 4 yr old. I was kind of take aback by this because it seems bizarre to give a child that age a medical intervention if you don't know it works. Especially because we are now talking about 3 shots.

What if I give my 4 yr old 3 vaccine shots over 3 months, and it turns out it doesn't produce the desired immune response. And then when he turns 5, we're giving him 2 more shots, at least.

Don't you think there might be a cumulative, and negative, impact on a child of being subjected to a medical procedure (yes, mild, but kids really don't like getting shots) 5 times in one year? And that cost could be responsibly weighed agains the potential benefit (which could very well be "0" -- we don't know yet) and a parent could conclude they shouldn't do it?

And I feel similarly about masking, quarantines, and testing. I had no issue teaching my child to wear a mask 2 years ago (I mean it was hard but I didn't object to it at all). My kid is tested weekly for school. We've had almost a dozen quarantines of 10 days or more. And when these things were implemented, my attitude was "yes, of course, whatever we can do to help." But the cumulative effect of 2 years of masking a child who is in this age range isn't nil. Nor is the cumulative effect of doing nasal swabs tests every week. Nor is the cumulative effect of repeatedly disrupting daycare/school schedules for quarantines. The longer any of this goes on, the larger the impact. It might have started out as no big deal, but it's becoming a very big deal.

And if the ultimate benefit is low, because the virus is more mild, or because these measures don't actually decrease spread, we of course should re-evaluate them. I just don't see how we can't.

Two years. Not two weeks, not two months. Two years. We really have to ask ourselves what the end game is, and yes, what the "off-ramps" might be.

[Anonymous]

Cost/benefit. You seem to be more focused on the potential cost of vaccination than the potential cost of COVID. Even if the risks of COVID are low for a 6 year old, vaccinations are still the right thing to do if the risks/costs of vaccination is low and it has the potential benefit of reducing the impact of COVID if caught and reduces the chance of community spread via your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

+1 same

I was ok with the restrictions on kids (for the most part) when everything else was restricted too (especially pre vaccine). At this point, in my area and many others, the ONLY restrictions are on kids (and certain large events like concerts). We don’t even have a mask mandate anymore. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

I don't see a mask mandate as a restriction. What other kids restrictions are there?? Our school has some that are intended to protect the youngest children, who can't get vaccinated, but really there aren't many. Of course, we are now in private. But there are still not large events going on. I wish there were. It's not the govt, it's just that people don't feel comfortable.

OMG, well, kids are masked; have to sit apart from each other; get punished if their mask is below the nose; have weird rules about when they can pee, drink water, and do just about everything else that's normal; lunch is silent and only 10 minutes long, max; they get tested constantly; they are being told they are disease vectors, etc etc etc. I'm talking about my first-grader who now has anxiety about all of that, and therefore is having behavioral challenges and wants to avoid school. Simultaneously he can't hear the teachers half the time, and complains that he can't remember English letter sounds because he can't understand the teacher.

*cue the "you are a bad parent" etc etc etc trolls*

PP, other than the masks you just described a normal school day. If you never noticed how bad it was before now, then let me issue a belated welcome to public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

What country did you live in?? In this one, we had a completely incompetent president whose administration failed to maintain the national stockpiles of those supplies and deliberately prevented tests from being developed because he didn't want Americans to know the real numbers. THAT's why we didn't do those things. There were no masks, there were no tests, there was no leadership. There was nothing. Schools had no choice but to close because there were no other options available.

Trump was/is terrible, but he had nothing to do with any of the things you're complaining about.

The strategic national stockpile de-emphasized masks starting in 2009: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/face-masks-in-national-stockpile-have-not-been-substantially-replenished-since-2009/2020/03/10/57e57316-60c9-11ea-8baf-519cedb6ccd9_story.html

The CDC asserted the sole and exclusive right to develop diagnostic PCR tests in March 2020, put out a test kit that didn't work: https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-officials-knew-coronavirus-test-was-flawed-but-released-it-anyway

And the FDA decided that COVID testing was a "medical device" and therefore asserted jurisdiction, forcing research labs all over the country to stop offering their services: https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/15/diagnostic-tests-shortages-fda-decision/

If you think Trump was the only reason the US couldn't get it together with a COVID response, you are letting a whole slew of incompetent, arrogant bureaucrats off the hook.

Incorrect on the national stockpile - what there was was not maintained specifically by Trump's admin.

CDC and FDA - Trump admin. Directly under his control.

[Anonymous]

Most of you seem to be missing the point. Masks don't hurt children AND masks on unvaccinated children help keep the adults around them safe. If enough teachers get sick or die, or if enough teachers leave the job because they don't feel that their health is being considered, then children will in a much worse position than they are now. So make your choices wisely. Would you rather have your child in school wearing a mask, or would you rather your child not be in school and not wearing a mask? At least with the former, our children are learning. With the later? Not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of you seem to be missing the point. Masks don't hurt children AND masks on unvaccinated children help keep the adults around them safe. If enough teachers get sick or die, or if enough teachers leave the job because they don't feel that their health is being considered, then children will in a much worse position than they are now. So make your choices wisely. Would you rather have your child in school wearing a mask, or would you rather your child not be in school and not wearing a mask? At least with the former, our children are learning. With the later? Not so much.

Before vaccines, sure. But if you think masking young kids is the difference-maker here, now that school-aged kids AND ADULTS have the opportunity to be vaccinated, you're woefully misinformed. And I'm not the anti-science, COVID-denier you think I am: DH and I are fully boosted and we vaccinated our kids as soon as we had the opportunity to. I wear high quality masks anytime I need to be indoors. Our kids mask at school (of course).

But, this idea that kids wearing crappy masks is the difference between teachers getting sick and dying is outrageous. Truly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.

Inflation, Afghanistan, the Ukraine, higher rents, health care disparity, crappy public school? That’s what is really going on. The failure of those promoting masks in areas where the benefits are minimal is just dumb. I fail to understand why, 2 years in, we continue to force an imperfect remediation measure on children for whom it has little to no benefit.

I will never get over why keeping schools closed or kids' activities restricted was more important than protecting those most at risk, including workers in factories, warehouses, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. throughout the pandemic. I'm pro-mask, but there is so much more that could have been done to keep low-wage and high-risk workers safer, including testing and providing free high-quality masks. Not only are we more concerned about restrictions on kids than we are protecting the vulnerable, but we use the poor COVID outcomes for the most vulnerable communities as continued justification for school restrictions.

+1 same

I was ok with the restrictions on kids (for the most part) when everything else was restricted too (especially pre vaccine). At this point, in my area and many others, the ONLY restrictions are on kids (and certain large events like concerts). We don’t even have a mask mandate anymore. The whole thing makes no sense to me.

I don't see a mask mandate as a restriction. What other kids restrictions are there?? Our school has some that are intended to protect the youngest children, who can't get vaccinated, but really there aren't many. Of course, we are now in private. But there are still not large events going on. I wish there were. It's not the govt, it's just that people don't feel comfortable.

OMG, well, kids are masked; have to sit apart from each other; get punished if their mask is below the nose; have weird rules about when they can pee, drink water, and do just about everything else that's normal; lunch is silent and only 10 minutes long, max; they get tested constantly; they are being told they are disease vectors, etc etc etc. I'm talking about my first-grader who now has anxiety about all of that, and therefore is having behavioral challenges and wants to avoid school. Simultaneously he can't hear the teachers half the time, and complains that he can't remember English letter sounds because he can't understand the teacher.

*cue the "you are a bad parent" etc etc etc trolls*

PP, other than the masks you just described a normal school day. If you never noticed how bad it was before now, then let me issue a belated welcome to public school.

Exactly. And I won't be a "you're a bad parent" troll but you are certainly exuding all sorts of anxiety. You may want to think about that and 1) consider getting yourself some help, and 2) take some extra care to NOT model your unhealthy coping skills for your child. If she has anxiety, then she learned it from you. It is a learned behavior. Do better.