The Urgency of Normal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not about kids. It’s about signaling that you aren’t Republican, kids and their experiences be damned.

Sure, but the people who go that route are unintentionally signaling how not progressive they truly are, if they're more concerned with what other people think of them than policies that impact actual human children.

Congratulations you just described modern American liberalism

+1 Progressives talk a big game about equity but shut down any discussion of whether their policies actually address the injustice or actually benefit marginalized communitie. Why actually work to help children, when you can spend all of your time telling adults how terrible they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not about kids. It’s about signaling that you aren’t Republican, kids and their experiences be damned.

Sure, but the people who go that route are unintentionally signaling how not progressive they truly are, if they're more concerned with what other people think of them than policies that impact actual human children.

Congratulations you just described modern American liberalism

+1 Progressives talk a big game about equity but shut down any discussion of whether their policies actually address the injustice or actually benefit marginalized communitie. Why actually work to help children, when you can spend all of your time telling adults how terrible they are?

Then they’re not actually progressive, are they? Those of us who actually do work to help kids and address equity know how important social structures like in-person school are. I’m just disappointed by how many believe otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Agree.

Get the kids back in school - full time - with no mask mandates.

Both remote learning and masks are detrimental to learning .... particularly for young children.

I can't help but wonder how many people here - a mere 2 1/2 years ago - were seeking advice on how to limit screen time for children. And, now, in many places they are plopped in front of a computer for 5 or 6 hours a day. This is not healthy.

Nor are masks - especially for young children. They need to see faces and smiles. They, like adults, take cues from facial expressions. Speech for the very young can be impacted by masking.
And, then there are the psychological issues. If your child likes to wear masks, or "doesn't mind" wearing masks, I would worry. This is not normal.

I saw this today too. Maybe people are starting to wake up to the risks that these mitigation efforts have on children. Seems the risks are higher than the virus itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like how the efficacy of masks need double blind studies that shows conclusively that they stop the spread of COVID but the dangers of mask just need vague hand waving concerns about "development." The double standard reflects motivated thinking.

A study of masks cannot be double blinded. I think the point of the references in the toolkit was that the literature on masking in schools as a whole is either methodologically deficient or does not show benefits. The toolkit actually says more controlled studies are needed. But I think the message is that public policies should require evidence. Early in the pandemic we did anything and everything because we didn't know better and didn't have vaccines. I think evidence is now required--the burden of proof should be on those mandating the policies.

I think the burden of proof should be on those who seek to spread the virus in public. "First, do no harm" and all of that. We know that 900,000 people are dead of COVID. We only have vague notions as to whether or not masks cause developmental problems. Stopping the spread of COVID is obviously the clear and present danger. We know from, for example, the Bangladesh study that widely distributed surgical masks reduce the spread.

[Anonymous]

While we know that 900,000 have died of Covid, now that a vaccine is available that greatly reduces mortality, we should no longer base public health measures on the absolute number of deaths to date. The death rate among the vaccinated is the more relevant measure at this point IMO.

[Anonymous]

This is the new normal. It's never going back to the old days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the new normal. It's never going back to the old days.

Good luck with that. If normal doesn't come back soon we're going to see repeats of the 2021 VA Gov. election nationally, in 2022 and 2024.

Do you want President Desantis? Because this is how you get President Desantis!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new normal. It's never going back to the old days.

Good luck with that. If normal doesn't come back soon we're going to see repeats of the 2021 VA Gov. election nationally, in 2022 and 2024.

Do you want President Desantis? Because this is how you get President Desantis!

Yup. Dems are just handing the GOP something to run in, it’s infuriating. Refusing to listen to valid criticisms of existing Covid restrictions, or adjust restrictions based on new info or circumstances, just gives Republicans an opportunity to sound reasonable. Why serve that up for them? Why can’t WE be the reasonable ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not about kids. It’s about signaling that you aren’t Republican, kids and their experiences be damned.

Sure, but the people who go that route are unintentionally signaling how not progressive they truly are, if they're more concerned with what other people think of them than policies that impact actual human children.

Congratulations you just described modern American liberalism

+1 Progressives talk a big game about equity but shut down any discussion of whether their policies actually address the injustice or actually benefit marginalized communitie. Why actually work to help children, when you can spend all of your time telling adults how terrible they are?

+1

So many pro-extended closure conversations on DCUM went something like this:

"We have to work to get kids back in school. This is harming the most vulnerable children permanently. There is significant evidence about the harms of the school closures that is accumulating."

"What????!?? My kids were totally fine with DL! You are a terrible parent because your kids didn't do well in DL."

"Uh, I am not talking about my kids. I'm talking about kids as a cohort, and there is troubling data."

"You just hate your kids."

It was utterly nonsensical. It was so illogical that I wondered if the pro-closure people were just trolls. They seemed totally incapable of thought beyond the four walls of their house.

[Anonymous]

The website mentioned by OP is a right wing talking point piece of propaganda that was largely denounced by the wider medical community and found to be full or errors and false statements, in spite of the legitimate credentials of those who originally wrote it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not about kids. It’s about signaling that you aren’t Republican, kids and their experiences be damned.

Sure, but the people who go that route are unintentionally signaling how not progressive they truly are, if they're more concerned with what other people think of them than policies that impact actual human children.

Congratulations you just described modern American liberalism

+1 Progressives talk a big game about equity but shut down any discussion of whether their policies actually address the injustice or actually benefit marginalized communitie. Why actually work to help children, when you can spend all of your time telling adults how terrible they are?

+1

So many pro-extended closure conversations on DCUM went something like this:

"We have to work to get kids back in school. This is harming the most vulnerable children permanently. There is significant evidence about the harms of the school closures that is accumulating."

"What????!?? My kids were totally fine with DL! You are a terrible parent because your kids didn't do well in DL."

"Uh, I am not talking about my kids. I'm talking about kids as a cohort, and there is troubling data."

"You just hate your kids."

It was utterly nonsensical. It was so illogical that I wondered if the pro-closure people were just trolls. They seemed totally incapable of thought beyond the four walls of their house.

Not the direct PP you’re quoting, but one of the other ones - right, exactly.

It was either “my kids are thriving in DL” or “you’re a horrible racist for even daring to mention that DL is harming vulnerable kids.” I saw the latter thrown around a LOT in a FB group for parents in our school system. Painfully, I know some of these people IRL; it would have been comforting to imagine they were trolls but, alas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the new normal. It's never going back to the old days.

Good luck with that. If normal doesn't come back soon we're going to see repeats of the 2021 VA Gov. election nationally, in 2022 and 2024.

Do you want President Desantis? Because this is how you get President Desantis!

Even if we had Desantis for Prez, we can't wish Covid away by taking our masks off. This virus is going to keep mutating and coming back around again and again. Not wearing a mask is not going to make it go away. In fact, it will help spread it. Not even Desantis can make Covid go away. Even he has enough respect for it that he got vaxxed. He just doesn't want to admit it.

[Anonymous]

If we look normal (no masks), then we will be normal (no Covid). Got it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not about kids. It’s about signaling that you aren’t Republican, kids and their experiences be damned.

Sure, but the people who go that route are unintentionally signaling how not progressive they truly are, if they're more concerned with what other people think of them than policies that impact actual human children.

Congratulations you just described modern American liberalism

+1 Progressives talk a big game about equity but shut down any discussion of whether their policies actually address the injustice or actually benefit marginalized communitie. Why actually work to help children, when you can spend all of your time telling adults how terrible they are?

+1

So many pro-extended closure conversations on DCUM went something like this:

"We have to work to get kids back in school. This is harming the most vulnerable children permanently. There is significant evidence about the harms of the school closures that is accumulating."

"What????!?? My kids were totally fine with DL! You are a terrible parent because your kids didn't do well in DL."

"Uh, I am not talking about my kids. I'm talking about kids as a cohort, and there is troubling data."

"You just hate your kids."

It was utterly nonsensical. It was so illogical that I wondered if the pro-closure people were just trolls. They seemed totally incapable of thought beyond the four walls of their house.

Not the direct PP you’re quoting, but one of the other ones - right, exactly.

It was either “my kids are thriving in DL” or “you’re a horrible racist for even daring to mention that DL is harming vulnerable kids.” I saw the latter thrown around a LOT in a FB group for parents in our school system. Painfully, I know some of these people IRL; it would have been comforting to imagine they were trolls but, alas.

I'm a quoted PP. I don't know how much I buy into all of the points in the toolkit, but this resource is beneficial in reframing the dialogue. As part of the progressive stubborn refusal to acknowledge real harms to all children, but especially to those most at risk, by school restrictions, the party line was to demand that those seeking a change in current school status, whether it was returning to hybrid, or in person, or lifting mask requirements, or whatever, prove that a change in position was justified. While requiring a demonstration of "safety," these voices refused to acknowledge, even slightly, the drawbacks of continued distance learning.

We are now two years into the pandemic, and these NPIs are no longer temporary measures. The harms caused by continued COVID restrictions in childrens' lives are cumulative. The default for schools is regular school with no masks. Are we at a point where we can return to that? I, personally don't think so. However, it is no longer appropriate to consider NPIs and closures as the default. Keep them in place as long as they are needed, but the decisions should be purposeful and made only when the negative consequences of having them in place have been discussed and acknowledged. That's the message.

[Anonymous]

If we can keep everyone's attention on the fight against masks then they will not notice what's really going on.