The Urgency of Normal

[Anonymous]

I will say that reading the material has made me ready to retire masking at schools under specific circumstances. I would have considered myself a person that was supportive of masking but also a person that follows evidence and experts. I like the proposal of Moco to limit masking at schools. Obviously anyone who wants to wear a mask should continue to do so, but the requirement for children seems not well-grounded in evidence. I'd be happy to dialogue with my school community regarding protection of medically complex kids, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’d really appreciate folks who disagree that in-person education for kids is a priority providing substantive evidence to support that position. So far, I’ve seen none. If I’m missing it, I want to see.

Who is saying that?

Like people already said, schools are open. Sure, there have been some temporary switches to virtual for outbreaks but there's seemingly no threat of all-virtual all the time.

I read through this packet yesterday and it didn't seem to offer anything new.

If we're talking about what we'd like to see discussed - where's the support for masks being harmful? That's what I expected to see in this toolkit because a lot of people seem to be making that claim. But the toolkit authors simply say, "Potential harms from long-term masking are poorly understood, and reports on mask removal have noted social and emotional benefits for students."

That's very similar to the language used to evaluate masks effectiveness, which is more or less a big shrug.

So, again, what's new here?

Go to the MCPS forum. While it's died down in the last week or so, there were a LOT of people calling for virtual earlier in January, because "Omicron," with zero consideration for the trade-offs of doing so. Zero consideration that MoCo is very highly vaccinated. Even short-term virtual has consequences, but the people claiming it doesn't provide no evidence for that claim, just a lot of hyperbole.

As for masks being harmful, how about for kids learning to read? Learning a second language? Learning to recognize and process emotions? With speech delays? Part of the issue is that people don't even want to consider the possibility that indefinitely masking children might not be ideal, when I just came up with multiple scenarios in which it could be problematic, without a lot of effort.

[Anonymous]

^^oh, and we really need to shift the narrative around masking to understand that high quality masks absolutely DO protect the wearer. The claim that "my mask only protects you" is BS. It's disingenuous to keep repeating it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’d really appreciate folks who disagree that in-person education for kids is a priority providing substantive evidence to support that position. So far, I’ve seen none. If I’m missing it, I want to see.

Who is saying that?

Like people already said, schools are open. Sure, there have been some temporary switches to virtual for outbreaks but there's seemingly no threat of all-virtual all the time.

I read through this packet yesterday and it didn't seem to offer anything new.

If we're talking about what we'd like to see discussed - where's the support for masks being harmful? That's what I expected to see in this toolkit because a lot of people seem to be making that claim. But the toolkit authors simply say, "Potential harms from long-term masking are poorly understood, and reports on mask removal have noted social and emotional benefits for students."

That's very similar to the language used to evaluate masks effectiveness, which is more or less a big shrug.

So, again, what's new here?

Go to the MCPS forum. While it's died down in the last week or so, there were a LOT of people calling for virtual earlier in January, because "Omicron," with zero consideration for the trade-offs of doing so. Zero consideration that MoCo is very highly vaccinated. Even short-term virtual has consequences, but the people claiming it doesn't provide no evidence for that claim, just a lot of hyperbole.

As for masks being harmful, how about for kids learning to read? Learning a second language? Learning to recognize and process emotions? With speech delays? Part of the issue is that people don't even want to consider the possibility that indefinitely masking children might not be ideal, when I just came up with multiple scenarios in which it could be problematic, without a lot of effort.

I was the PP. Regarding masks, what I was looking for is evidence. Anyone can come up with whatabouts, including me. I wonder about those things, too, but I don't use the random questions I come up as support in an argument. I see that someone else posted some studies so I'll have to check those out.

[Anonymous]

*come up with

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’d really appreciate folks who disagree that in-person education for kids is a priority providing substantive evidence to support that position. So far, I’ve seen none. If I’m missing it, I want to see.

Who is saying that?

Like people already said, schools are open. Sure, there have been some temporary switches to virtual for outbreaks but there's seemingly no threat of all-virtual all the time.

I read through this packet yesterday and it didn't seem to offer anything new.

If we're talking about what we'd like to see discussed - where's the support for masks being harmful? That's what I expected to see in this toolkit because a lot of people seem to be making that claim. But the toolkit authors simply say, "Potential harms from long-term masking are poorly understood, and reports on mask removal have noted social and emotional benefits for students."

That's very similar to the language used to evaluate masks effectiveness, which is more or less a big shrug.

So, again, what's new here?

Go to the MCPS forum. While it's died down in the last week or so, there were a LOT of people calling for virtual earlier in January, because "Omicron," with zero consideration for the trade-offs of doing so. Zero consideration that MoCo is very highly vaccinated. Even short-term virtual has consequences, but the people claiming it doesn't provide no evidence for that claim, just a lot of hyperbole.

As for masks being harmful, how about for kids learning to read? Learning a second language? Learning to recognize and process emotions? With speech delays? Part of the issue is that people don't even want to consider the possibility that indefinitely masking children might not be ideal, when I just came up with multiple scenarios in which it could be problematic, without a lot of effort.

I was the PP. Regarding masks, what I was looking for is evidence. Anyone can come up with whatabouts, including me. I wonder about those things, too, but I don't use the random questions I come up as support in an argument. I see that someone else posted some studies so I'll have to check those out.

There are many studies of masking listed here on slides 18-20 of the previously-linked power point: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/61e5afd7a33d334ec9f84595/t/61f1468d2b827306c0bea391/1643202191267/Urgency+of+Normal+Toolkit.pdf

[Anonymous]

One of the things I most appreciated about this document is the idea that we need to think critically about how both Covid precautions and, importantly, the way we implement them, impacts kids mental health and ability to learn and function.

So much of the conversation around Covid precautions in schools is divisive, angry, reactionary. This is so stressful for kids. And yes, I am aware there are conservative jerks who drive a lot of this. But I live in a very blue area where there is basically no resistance among school families to things like masking and testing. People get frustrated with the way certain things are implemented, but there is no meaningful opposition to Covid precautions.

Rather, where I live, most of the combative, disruptive behavior is coming from people on the left (I'm on the left! I really disagree with how these people are handling things). And their behavior is really harmful to kids. It's really awful to be telling kids "If you get Covid, you die." When it's not even true! Kids and vaccinated + boosted adults have lower or equal risk from Covid than the flu or, in some cases, car accidents and other threats to safety. Think how damaging it is for kids to communicate this message to them. We should instead be emphasizing the effectiveness of vaccines, showing them how great it is that our society came together to develop these vaccines so quickly. Talk about how kids are at lower risk of Covid so they don't have be stressed or live in fear of the virus, and how that's such a relief to adults to know that kids are less vulnerable to this virus.

I just think a lot of people have become so addicted to doom, and are constantly fighting an imaginary war with Trump or anti-maskers or anti-vaxers (whether they are in your community or not, which, they are not in my community) that they have lost sight of how their behavior is negatively impacting kids. It's like parents who have become so caught up in the conflict with one another during a contentious divorce that they are fighting over custody without every recognizing that the best possible thing they could do for their kids is chill the heck out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’d really appreciate folks who disagree that in-person education for kids is a priority providing substantive evidence to support that position. So far, I’ve seen none. If I’m missing it, I want to see.

Who is saying that?

Like people already said, schools are open. Sure, there have been some temporary switches to virtual for outbreaks but there's seemingly no threat of all-virtual all the time.

I read through this packet yesterday and it didn't seem to offer anything new.

If we're talking about what we'd like to see discussed - where's the support for masks being harmful? That's what I expected to see in this toolkit because a lot of people seem to be making that claim. But the toolkit authors simply say, "Potential harms from long-term masking are poorly understood, and reports on mask removal have noted social and emotional benefits for students."

That's very similar to the language used to evaluate masks effectiveness, which is more or less a big shrug.

So, again, what's new here?

Go to the MCPS forum. While it's died down in the last week or so, there were a LOT of people calling for virtual earlier in January, because "Omicron," with zero consideration for the trade-offs of doing so. Zero consideration that MoCo is very highly vaccinated. Even short-term virtual has consequences, but the people claiming it doesn't provide no evidence for that claim, just a lot of hyperbole.

As for masks being harmful, how about for kids learning to read? Learning a second language? Learning to recognize and process emotions? With speech delays? Part of the issue is that people don't even want to consider the possibility that indefinitely masking children might not be ideal, when I just came up with multiple scenarios in which it could be problematic, without a lot of effort.

I was the PP. Regarding masks, what I was looking for is evidence. Anyone can come up with whatabouts, including me. I wonder about those things, too, but I don't use the random questions I come up as support in an argument. I see that someone else posted some studies so I'll have to check those out.

There are many studies of masking listed here on slides 18-20 of the previously-linked power point: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/61e5afd7a33d334ec9f84595/t/61f1468d2b827306c0bea391/1643202191267/Urgency+of+Normal+Toolkit.pdf

Again, I know that. But those are not about the risks/harms of masking. The authors only say "Potential harms from long-term masking are poorly understood, and reports on mask removal have noted social and emotional benefits for students."

All this discussion is showing me is that, like the authors say, the topic is "poorly understood."

[Anonymous]

The ability to see one’s entire face is critical to a child’s development in every way. Many, many people of all ages are hard of hearing and rely partially in lip reading.
I have read the various articles on protection levels of different masks and let’s be honest - the majority of folks are wearing the little paper ones which protect for 25 minutes.
Mask wearing needs to be weighed against the huge harm being done to children and society in general. If you are high risk - please wear your mask and make it medical grade. But that is YOUR need - and other numerous needs exist in this world.

Let’s at least discuss risk/reward of mask wearing and fine tune who needs to wear them. Children should not be a targeted group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the things I most appreciated about this document is the idea that we need to think critically about how both Covid precautions and, importantly, the way we implement them, impacts kids mental health and ability to learn and function.

So much of the conversation around Covid precautions in schools is divisive, angry, reactionary. This is so stressful for kids. And yes, I am aware there are conservative jerks who drive a lot of this. But I live in a very blue area where there is basically no resistance among school families to things like masking and testing. People get frustrated with the way certain things are implemented, but there is no meaningful opposition to Covid precautions.

Rather, where I live, most of the combative, disruptive behavior is coming from people on the left (I'm on the left! I really disagree with how these people are handling things). And their behavior is really harmful to kids. It's really awful to be telling kids "If you get Covid, you die." When it's not even true! Kids and vaccinated + boosted adults have lower or equal risk from Covid than the flu or, in some cases, car accidents and other threats to safety. Think how damaging it is for kids to communicate this message to them. We should instead be emphasizing the effectiveness of vaccines, showing them how great it is that our society came together to develop these vaccines so quickly. Talk about how kids are at lower risk of Covid so they don't have be stressed or live in fear of the virus, and how that's such a relief to adults to know that kids are less vulnerable to this virus.

I just think a lot of people have become so addicted to doom, and are constantly fighting an imaginary war with Trump or anti-maskers or anti-vaxers


(whether they are in your community or not, which, they are not in my community) that they have lost sight of how their behavior is negatively impacting kids. It's like parents who have become so caught up in the conflict with one another during a contentious divorce that they are fighting over custody without every recognizing that the best possible thing they could do for their kids is chill the heck out.

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things I most appreciated about this document is the idea that we need to think critically about how both Covid precautions and, importantly, the way we implement them, impacts kids mental health and ability to learn and function.

So much of the conversation around Covid precautions in schools is divisive, angry, reactionary. This is so stressful for kids. And yes, I am aware there are conservative jerks who drive a lot of this. But I live in a very blue area where there is basically no resistance among school families to things like masking and testing. People get frustrated with the way certain things are implemented, but there is no meaningful opposition to Covid precautions.

Rather, where I live, most of the combative, disruptive behavior is coming from people on the left (I'm on the left! I really disagree with how these people are handling things). And their behavior is really harmful to kids. It's really awful to be telling kids "If you get Covid, you die." When it's not even true! Kids and vaccinated + boosted adults have lower or equal risk from Covid than the flu or, in some cases, car accidents and other threats to safety. Think how damaging it is for kids to communicate this message to them. We should instead be emphasizing the effectiveness of vaccines, showing them how great it is that our society came together to develop these vaccines so quickly. Talk about how kids are at lower risk of Covid so they don't have be stressed or live in fear of the virus, and how that's such a relief to adults to know that kids are less vulnerable to this virus.

I just think a lot of people have become so addicted to doom, and are constantly fighting an imaginary war with Trump or anti-maskers or anti-vaxers


(whether they are in your community or not, which, they are not in my community) that they have lost sight of how their behavior is negatively impacting kids. It's like parents who have become so caught up in the conflict with one another during a contentious divorce that they are fighting over custody without every recognizing that the best possible thing they could do for their kids is chill the heck out.

So true.

DP and yup. I agree entirely. I live in a very blue part of deep blue MoCo, and I'm still not sure why so many of my educated, self-described progressive neighbors think that "school isn't daycare" is a progressive position. These are people who wear KN95s outside, all the time, and glare at anyone who doesn't, so their contact with the reality of COVID-related risk is tenuous. It's very harmful to kids to see both the anger AND the disconnect from science and evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things I most appreciated about this document is the idea that we need to think critically about how both Covid precautions and, importantly, the way we implement them, impacts kids mental health and ability to learn and function.

So much of the conversation around Covid precautions in schools is divisive, angry, reactionary. This is so stressful for kids. And yes, I am aware there are conservative jerks who drive a lot of this. But I live in a very blue area where there is basically no resistance among school families to things like masking and testing. People get frustrated with the way certain things are implemented, but there is no meaningful opposition to Covid precautions.

Rather, where I live, most of the combative, disruptive behavior is coming from people on the left (I'm on the left! I really disagree with how these people are handling things). And their behavior is really harmful to kids. It's really awful to be telling kids "If you get Covid, you die." When it's not even true! Kids and vaccinated + boosted adults have lower or equal risk from Covid than the flu or, in some cases, car accidents and other threats to safety. Think how damaging it is for kids to communicate this message to them. We should instead be emphasizing the effectiveness of vaccines, showing them how great it is that our society came together to develop these vaccines so quickly. Talk about how kids are at lower risk of Covid so they don't have be stressed or live in fear of the virus, and how that's such a relief to adults to know that kids are less vulnerable to this virus.

I just think a lot of people have become so addicted to doom, and are constantly fighting an imaginary war with Trump or anti-maskers or anti-vaxers


(whether they are in your community or not, which, they are not in my community) that they have lost sight of how their behavior is negatively impacting kids. It's like parents who have become so caught up in the conflict with one another during a contentious divorce that they are fighting over custody without every recognizing that the best possible thing they could do for their kids is chill the heck out.

So true.

DP and yup. I agree entirely. I live in a very blue part of deep blue MoCo, and I'm still not sure why so many of my educated, self-described progressive neighbors think that "school isn't daycare" is a progressive position. These are people who wear KN95s outside, all the time, and glare at anyone who doesn't, so their contact with the reality of COVID-related risk is tenuous. It's very harmful to kids to see both the anger AND the disconnect from science and evidence.

What I have learned from the pandemic is that the progressive left is deeply misogynist. The position of the left on childcare and education in this pandemic was appalling.

History is going to show that children did better in red states in the pandemic, and that is terrible. And I'm a lifelong Democrat.

[Anonymous]

Amen to this! Too many of our kids are suffering from anxiety symptoms and metal health issues that are just coming to the surface as a result of this pandemic. We have all the tools we need in our arsenals to fight back now and the kids should be able to return to some sense of normalcy. This has gone on for too long!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the things I most appreciated about this document is the idea that we need to think critically about how both Covid precautions and, importantly, the way we implement them, impacts kids mental health and ability to learn and function.

So much of the conversation around Covid precautions in schools is divisive, angry, reactionary. This is so stressful for kids. And yes, I am aware there are conservative jerks who drive a lot of this. But I live in a very blue area where there is basically no resistance among school families to things like masking and testing. People get frustrated with the way certain things are implemented, but there is no meaningful opposition to Covid precautions.

Rather, where I live, most of the combative, disruptive behavior is coming from people on the left (I'm on the left! I really disagree with how these people are handling things). And their behavior is really harmful to kids. It's really awful to be telling kids "If you get Covid, you die." When it's not even true! Kids and vaccinated + boosted adults have lower or equal risk from Covid than the flu or, in some cases, car accidents and other threats to safety. Think how damaging it is for kids to communicate this message to them. We should instead be emphasizing the effectiveness of vaccines, showing them how great it is that our society came together to develop these vaccines so quickly. Talk about how kids are at lower risk of Covid so they don't have be stressed or live in fear of the virus, and how that's such a relief to adults to know that kids are less vulnerable to this virus.

I just think a lot of people have become so addicted to doom, and are constantly fighting an imaginary war with Trump or anti-maskers or anti-vaxers


(whether they are in your community or not, which, they are not in my community) that they have lost sight of how their behavior is negatively impacting kids. It's like parents who have become so caught up in the conflict with one another during a contentious divorce that they are fighting over custody without every recognizing that the best possible thing they could do for their kids is chill the heck out.

So true.

DP and yup. I agree entirely. I live in a very blue part of deep blue MoCo, and I'm still not sure why so many of my educated, self-described progressive neighbors think that "school isn't daycare" is a progressive position. These are people who wear KN95s outside, all the time, and glare at anyone who doesn't, so their contact with the reality of COVID-related risk is tenuous. It's very harmful to kids to see both the anger AND the disconnect from science and evidence.

What I have learned from the pandemic is that the progressive left is deeply misogynist. The position of the left on childcare and education in this pandemic was appalling.

History is going to show that children did better in red states in the pandemic, and that is terrible. And I'm a lifelong Democrat.

The problem is simple. In March 2020 Trump and Republicans (wrongly) downplayed the pandemic and so Democrats took the opposite position. Unfortunately, now that the situation has changed--we have more data about the low risk among children, vaccines, etc.--the most far left (including many of our leaders in the DMV) continues to dig in their heels as expression of political affiliation. We have weak leaders. We cannot fear being shamed for asking reasonable questions about whether certain mitigation strategies are doing more harm than good given what we now know. It is unfortunate that pandemic policies have become political weapons. The lunacy of it frustrates me to no end and I'm not sure how we break free of it. Just because some extremists were anti-mask in 2020 does not mean we should be shamed into having mask optional policies. People are stuck in their ways.

[Anonymous]

Pelosi was elbow to elbow breathing all over people when Orange Man said Covid was serious.

The Washington Post, that bastion of right wing lunacy, told us to “get a grippe” and not worry about Covid in February of 2020.

Biden accused Trump of hysterical xenophobia for calling attention to the issue.

When the Democrats realized that an extreme reaction to Covid would benefit them politically, they reversed course.

Anti - lockdown protests were scary super spreader events but blm protests a few weeks later were healthy and wonderful (even if at night a few businesses were destroyed and a few main streets set ablaze)

The vax was untrustworthy and possibly dangerous until Trump was booted from the White House, now they are necessary and wonderful and if you don’t get one you are a threat to society.

All while prominent dem politicians, as terrified of Covid as their republican counterparts, continued to have parties, see family and take vacations while they
told us how very dangerous that was.

If you think this is about health after all you have seen you are a nitwit.