S/O Can we talk about how bad Lin-Manuel Miranda's music is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Broadway music for the NPR set - haha. yes!

I also hate musicals and yet watched Hamilton and still don't like musicals. I also felt "yelled at"!

But Moana was the worst of the worst - I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater.

I think maybe the problem is that ppl expect waaaay too much from children's movies? They are movies for children...it's not going to be Citizen Kane. The best you are going to get is a couple of winking jokes aimed at the parents and maybe a catchy song or two.

Taking your kids to see a Disney movie is an activity you do to entertain your kids. I don't understand how doing that causes you "psychic pain" unless your expectations are extremely out of whack

And what praytell do you think a kid aged 5-10 gets out of Encanto?
They like the colors and beats.
This was an adult movie for sure.

My 10 year old understood the plot and can hold her own discussing encanto. Yes, she liked the colors. But she got more out of it than “pretty!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Broadway music for the NPR set - haha. yes!

I also hate musicals and yet watched Hamilton and still don't like musicals. I also felt "yelled at"!

But Moana was the worst of the worst - I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater.

I think maybe the problem is that ppl expect waaaay too much from children's movies? They are movies for children...it's not going to be Citizen Kane. The best you are going to get is a couple of winking jokes aimed at the parents and maybe a catchy song or two.

Taking your kids to see a Disney movie is an activity you do to entertain your kids. I don't understand how doing that causes you "psychic pain" unless your expectations are extremely out of whack

And what praytell do you think a kid aged 5-10 gets out of Encanto?
They like the colors and beats.
This was an adult movie for sure.

My 10 year old understood the plot and can hold her own discussing encanto. Yes, she liked the colors. But she got more out of it than “pretty!”

NP. My 5 year old followed the movie just fine. Not on the same level I did, of course, but she understood Mirabelle was left out because she didn't have a special gift and that she helped bring the family together at the end. My 8.5 year old obviously understood it on a deeper level than my 5 year old but again, not not the same level as adults do. But that's what great about kids' movies these days - they are for kids and adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Broadway music for the NPR set - haha. yes!

I also hate musicals and yet watched Hamilton and still don't like musicals. I also felt "yelled at"!

But Moana was the worst of the worst - I literally was groaning in psychic pain in the movie theater.

I think maybe the problem is that ppl expect waaaay too much from children's movies? They are movies for children...it's not going to be Citizen Kane. The best you are going to get is a couple of winking jokes aimed at the parents and maybe a catchy song or two.

Taking your kids to see a Disney movie is an activity you do to entertain your kids. I don't understand how doing that causes you "psychic pain" unless your expectations are extremely out of whack

I love animated movies and I’m over age 10. I don’t even remember any of the songs from Moana. But there are many beloved songs from other Disney and non-Disney movies.
Let it go
Beauty and the Beast
Rainbow connection
Aladdin

Maybe watch Moana again? I think it would be hard to argue that You're Welcome and How Far I'll Go are not in the same category as those others

The reprise of How Far I'll Go is right up there for me in the absolute best disney songs of all time. I would not put You're Welcome there but more like, Under the Sea etc, strong secondary songs.

I listened to both of these songs - they just don't move me. They're entertaining but they're not songs I would play over and over again, or sing, or want to learn to play on an instrument.

DP. But the songs from Beauty and the Beast move you and you play those over and over again? I mean, perhaps you just gravitate to the older Disney stuff because there's nothing remarkable about most of the older songs.

They do, and when the movie was out, I could play them over and over again. I also have the sheet music for songs from Beauty and the Beast. Several songs were nominated for Oscars and the theme song did win. So a few people thought the music from Beauty and Beast was remarkable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he first became popular I immediately recognized him as the bad beatboxer from the mid 2ks reboot of Electric Company. I find him overly earnest and dewy-eyed, a little too "aww shucks you love my stuff?" That said I do love the music, even if everything seems to come from the same template.

Yes, 100%

Dp. I find him endearig and sincere. Sorry you guys are so cynical that you can't see that. If he bragged than you wouldn't like that either! Either way in your eyes he can't get a break.

Nah, sorry. Your options are not Kanye or LMM. A lot of artists I respect are just professional about it. They are t bragging but they know they are good because they have good taste. LMM is still acting like he can’t believe anyone likes his work. It is absolutely grating. The “sweetness” comes across as what the terms call try hard.

His personality didn’t bother me when he first became a thing, but at this point I think he needs therapy. I feel like he’s still desperately trying to win people over. For someone that successful, this reads as incredibly needy and also lacking in boundaries.

Also, the lip bite selfies. Just… stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he first became popular I immediately recognized him as the bad beatboxer from the mid 2ks reboot of Electric Company. I find him overly earnest and dewy-eyed, a little too "aww shucks you love my stuff?" That said I do love the music, even if everything seems to come from the same template.

Yes, 100%

Dp. I find him endearig and sincere. Sorry you guys are so cynical that you can't see that. If he bragged than you wouldn't like that either! Either way in your eyes he can't get a break.

Nah, sorry. Your options are not Kanye or LMM. A lot of artists I respect are just professional about it. They are t bragging but they know they are good because they have good taste. LMM is still acting like he can’t believe anyone likes his work. It is absolutely grating. The “sweetness” comes across as what the terms call try hard.

His personality didn’t bother me when he first became a thing, but at this point I think he needs therapy. I feel like he’s still desperately trying to win people over. For someone that successful, this reads as incredibly needy and also lacking in boundaries.

Also, the lip bite selfies. Just… stop.

You know what? I'm not a fan of LMM and I don't think he needs to change for you. He's hugely popular and has a charm that appeals to many, even if you are not one of them. I'm surprised that you are so vociferously against him. To each his own, but it would probably be healthier for you to just skip anything with him and not work yourself into such a frenzy trying to convince others to dislike him. You seem like you're going to give yourself an ulcer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thank you for writing this and taking the heat! I have felt this way for a long time but this is not an opinion you're allowed to have in polite society right now. I'm not sure why.

It's strange because I like all kinds of things that other people don't like -- super niche, nerdy science fiction; poetry; opera; modern dance; detailed British nature paintings. Like just random art that speaks very specifically to my aesthetic and topical interests. I have zero problems when people say they don't like these things. I don't expect them to.

I think that's the difference. A lot of people who love LMM get mad if you say it's not their thing because their is an expectation that everyone will like it. That's a weird expectation. Even the more popular stuff I like (Lizzo, Game of Thrones, Amy Winehouse, Louise Penny novels), I know people who don't like them. And it's fine! They like other things.

LMM's talk-singing thing, and specifically the way a lot of his songs are designed to feel like you are being buried in words and feelings, is not my thing. I believe it has to do with aesthetic, I really appreciate more sparse musical aesthetics, I like feeling carried by music not hit by it. Which yes, means I'm heavily invested in melody and beat, whereas LMM is more focused on the lyrics themselves, musical punctuation, and a kind of excess. That's fine. Not my thing.

It's not a personal insult to YOU if I don't like the thing you like. Liking things is subjective, by definition.

Good point. Half the English population cannot process quickly spoken language so the cleverness and meaning of the rapped lyrics, which are ALWAYS storytelling with LMM, are lost. Or require a look up later or a 2nd viewing, etc.

Is that a good thing? Is that “depth” if many people need multiple exposures to get it? My work addict spouse on the spectrum didn’t understand or appreciate Hamilton at all. But he’ll toe the line and say it was fantastic because that’s what the reviews said. That’s too bad, he may have learned some history and Miranda’s/author’s take on some historic figures.

1776 was the superior musical about the nation's founding. The history is better, it's funnier, and it confronts the slavery issue head-on, rather than using actors of color to obfuscate the founders' sins.

oh okay there can only be one good musical about the founding fathers. thanks, musical police, for letting us know

PP - I didn't say Hamilton was bad. I just think 1776 was better, and its strongest points happen to be Hamilton's weakest.
Hamilton was fine. It becomes better when you realize that Burr is the hero.

you mean anti-hero. He murdered a man with 7 children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When he first became popular I immediately recognized him as the bad beatboxer from the mid 2ks reboot of Electric Company. I find him overly earnest and dewy-eyed, a little too "aww shucks you love my stuff?" That said I do love the music, even if everything seems to come from the same template.

Yes, 100%

Dp. I find him endearig and sincere. Sorry you guys are so cynical that you can't see that. If he bragged than you wouldn't like that either! Either way in your eyes he can't get a break.

Nah, sorry. Your options are not Kanye or LMM. A lot of artists I respect are just professional about it. They are t bragging but they know they are good because they have good taste. LMM is still acting like he can’t believe anyone likes his work. It is absolutely grating. The “sweetness” comes across as what the terms call try hard.

His personality didn’t bother me when he first became a thing, but at this point I think he needs therapy. I feel like he’s still desperately trying to win people over. For someone that successful, this reads as incredibly needy and also lacking in boundaries.

Also, the lip bite selfies. Just… stop.

Ya' know what? you aren't going to convince me that I shouldn't like LMM. Personally, I think you need the therapy because you are "trying too hard" to get people to not like him. Makes me like him even more! Just avoid if you don't appreciate his talent and his goodness.

[Anonymous]

Look, call Hamilton all the names you want, but my elementary schooler can accurately describe the Compromise of 1790 and knows who wrote the Federalist Papers and why. I’m calling it a win.

Also, after years of superheroes, it was delightful to see him ask to dress as Hamilton for Halloween! Lin Manuel is a mensch as far as I’m concerned. He made history interesting for a generation of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Only you.

Ha. No, OP. It isn't only you. Many people agree with you, they're just shouted down by the Hamilton-heads who can't bear any criticism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Only you.

Ha. No, OP. It isn't only you. Many people agree with you, they're just shouted down by the Hamilton-heads who can't bear any criticism.

There are very few (maybe no?) posters saying that someone has an obligation to like him or his music.

[Anonymous]

Agree, OP. I like that 'More' Moana song if that his his writing (for a kids movie) but that's all I can think of.

Not my bag.

Plus, he looks like the love child of PeeWee Herman and Steve from Blue's Clues.

[Anonymous]

I think LMM is a genius and love his music and lyrics. Y’all are haters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think LMM is a genius and love his music and lyrics. Y’all are haters.

His lyrics may be genius, but his melodies aren’t lyrical because so many notes have to be fit into a bar to accommodate the words. Try listening to an instrumental version of his songs - strings of 16th notes then repeated intervals between notes. The melodies end up sounding percussive - this might be why some listeners feel the music is being shouted at them. I’m not saying it’s bad but my preference would be amazing lyrics with lyrical melodies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Only you.

Ha. No, OP. It isn't only you. Many people agree with you, they're just shouted down by the Hamilton-heads who can't bear any criticism.

LMM is much more than Hamilton. We are huge fans of his in part because the music and lyrics are ones that my kids love and my DH and I like, too. Moana, Vivo, Encanto, etc - all great animated musicals as far as we’re concerned with themes and stories that are more complex than some of the other animated fare.

The poster who said Moana caused her psychic pain - I don’t get you, I don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think LMM is a genius and love his music and lyrics. Y’all are haters.

His lyrics may be genius, but his melodies aren’t lyrical because so many notes have to be fit into a bar to accommodate the words. Try listening to an instrumental version of his songs - strings of 16th notes then repeated intervals between notes. The melodies end up sounding percussive - this might be why some listeners feel the music is being shouted at them. I’m not saying it’s bad but my preference would be amazing lyrics with lyrical melodies.

You’re being too academic. My kids - me - we all sing along to the music without any issues. It’s catchy music.