The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about Ethan actually did cheat. I’m sorry but hiring hookers getting them to your room, undressing, kissing and then crying. GTFO that’s not “doing nothing”. So annoyed by this. Like is actual penetration the line. Is this Bill Clinton train of thinking?

No, he didn't. He behaved badly, but most of it was by being adjacent to Cameron. Ethan is so passive--do you honestly think he was the impetus behind finding the girls, flirting with them, inviting them back to their room, and undressing them? He was just high and drunk and along for the ride. He rejected Mia's overtures.

I get the sense that Ethan is not normally this passive, and that his passive behavior towards Cameron on this trip is a big part of what is unsettling Harper. I think normally, Ethan is probably pretty direct and opinionated (he built and sold a tech business that has made them incredibly rich, he's probably not a pushover). I also bet that normally he and Harper are both kind of caustic and critical of people they think are less intelligent than them. You get glimpses of this. They seem like a couple who was attracted to each other for being curious, intelligent, and aware. They sit in bed and read books and work on their computers. They probably talk about work a lot and love that they both are so good at and interested in their jobs. I get the sense that if the met some random couple on a vacation and that couple was like "we don't vote or read! I love Dateline and we're friends with Jeff Bezos!" Ethan would be right there with Harper in skewering them later that night as vapid and stupid.

But he's not doing that with Cameron and keep suggesting they are "fun". And you can tell Harper is just like "who are you and what did you do with my husband?" Like I just get the sense based on her interactions with him that he is acting VERY unusually. What reads as her being super negative and unpleasant to him is actually her being confused and frustrated because normally they'd cackle about the dump rich couple from dinner and instead he's suddenly defending them. Is it because he's newly rich and wants to be the dumb rich couple? Or is it because he's distracted by this longstanding beef with Cameron that is consuming him and making him withdraw into himself? It's very unclear. But I think normally Ethan would be rolling his eyes right along with Harper and they'd probably bond over their shared sense of superiority. Harper is frustrated that's not happening and it's making her feel very distant from her husband during a huge shift in their financial circumstances due to his job, not hers. And it's making her insecure.

Cameran did him once. The porn is his attempt at self therapy.

I've wondered about this. The scene with Cameron and Ethan in bed, where Cameron is "coming on" to Ethan is played as a joke, but Ethan didn't look amused.

It seemed very weird to me- like beyond a joke.

I believe they have slept together in the past and also that it is possible they may have slept together the evening with Lucia and Mia. They just didn’t show us.

Interesting theory. There was definitely some weirdness there. I thought it was Cameron asserting his dominance and kind of humiliating Ethan as a power move but it could be more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, catching up on this show, something from the fourth episode caught my attention.

Early in the episode, Daphne is telling Harper that she doesn't have many female friends and says something like "Well you know girls." And then says they always just want something out of her and then talk about her behind her back.

Then towards the end of the episode, Tanya is telling Portia how much she likes the gay guys and makes a point of saying that she doesn't like women because "most women are drips." She says it's not their fault, they have reasons to be sad, but they are no fun.

It struck me because in both conversations, it's a woman telling another woman how terrible ALL women are. With no sense of self-awareness that they are describing both themselves AND the woman they are talking to. Like Daphne, if all women are self-interested gossips, what does that make you? And Tanya, if all women are depressing drips, what exactly is your deal?

Also, on a personal note, I'm a woman and I couldn't help but think "Yeah, women ARE like that a lot" during both conversations. But I don't consider myself that way.

Anyway, I don't think he show is trying to criticize women, but I do think it's criticizing the way that women tend to be their own biggest critics.

And this is the genius of the show.

[Anonymous]

saw first few episodes then it wants dto charged me for the rest.....is that the case with everyone else? I like it so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Albie is so gross

I am kind of confused by the distaste for Albie in this thread. I don't find him distasteful, I actually do find him to be pretty much what you'd want out of a guy? He takes no for an answer, isn't shaming any of the women for their choices. Isn't excusing the bad behavior of the men in his life. I do think he is going to get screwed over by a woman and we will see his true colors but I don't think he's done anything bad and wonder if this is a choice in itself. Showing a non dominant but confident guy who isn't incredibly anything (not incredibly handsome or powerful or anything at all, just very average, but essentially one of the only people making good choices that don't hurt others) but who is unlikeable for some amorphous reason. A foil to Cam who from all objective measures is absolutely horrible but is SO handsome and affectionate that you have to keep reminding yourself how bad he is when he's not being blatantly terrible.

agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saw first few episodes then it wants dto charged me for the rest.....is that the case with everyone else? I like it so far.

No. Do you pay for HBOmax individually or through hulu or other? You have to pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

By not doing what Cameron does =! A good guy. A good guy should have his own convictions.

[Anonymous]

For the first few episodes I thought this season is a flop. Whoever is playing Portia is pretty bad and so are Italian girls, their roles are so stupid. There is no depth.

Now it’s becoming a bit interesting.

There is a lot of speculation on TikTok that the Wyoming lover is Tanya’s husband and they gays will try to kill her to get her inheritance to pay for their villas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

[Anonymous]

Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing to me that women (I'm a woman, ftr) are all over this thread talking about how they don't trust Albie, they think he's a jerk, they don't trust Ethan, he's the worst. But Cameron is far and away the worst guy on the show and hardly anyone calls him out on it. Most of the comments are just about how Theo James is hot. But Cameron is disgusting. Understand if he's cheating as aggressively and flagrantly as we've seen him during this week (with a couple hookers he met in the bar, trying to hook up with Harper right in front of his wife), he's also a TRASH dad and likely has some kind of constantly rotating STDs that he passes onto his wife.

Dom's also a piece of work but at least he is capable of acting like a kind person in the moment even if his big picture behavior is terrible.

But people are focusing in on Albie and Ethan? Okay. Who, by the way, are both incredibly attractive but also NOT cheating a$$holes.

I think there is less conversation about Cameron being an ahole because there is no question about it; there isn’t a lot of room for discussion around if he’s secretly bad or whatever. It’s obvious.

+1 what's to say - he;s hot and horrible. the others seem more complex, so more interesting to talk about.

I think he's actually there to be like, people like Cameron seem more dangerous but he's actually maybe the least dangerous because Cameron is transparently awful. You see him and you understand what his flaws are. They aren't hidden. His horribleness is on display and a threat that is clear and on display is in some ways less threatening and easier to manage.

The other men keep their dangers more hidden, they are harder to pin down. And so in some ways they are more dangerous. You see a bear you avoid a bear. The lioness silently stalking you or the quicksand you don't see can be more dangerous because you aren't defending yourself from them.

I think a point here is that the show wants you to see Cam and immediately see his grossness and to judge him for it. And then have all these other ambiguously bad men emerge more quietly to show that there are threats everywhere, and one shouldn't necessarily feel like just because they aren't like Cam there are 'good'. He is the black and white in a show that plays in shades of grey.

DP

I dunno - it does not feel like the writers care that much about the audience.

I just see nearly all the characters as empty and vapid. Even the prostitutes are conveyed with little sympathy for the circumstances that led them to that life at such a young age.

The only character I find likable is played by Aubrey Plaza but I am sure the writers will mess her up soon enough …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Albie is so gross

I am kind of confused by the distaste for Albie in this thread. I don't find him distasteful, I actually do find him to be pretty much what you'd want out of a guy? He takes no for an answer, isn't shaming any of the women for their choices. Isn't excusing the bad behavior of the men in his life. I do think he is going to get screwed over by a woman and we will see his true colors but I don't think he's done anything bad and wonder if this is a choice in itself. Showing a non dominant but confident guy who isn't incredibly anything (not incredibly handsome or powerful or anything at all, just very average, but essentially one of the only people making good choices that don't hurt others) but who is unlikeable for some amorphous reason. A foil to Cam who from all objective measures is absolutely horrible but is SO handsome and affectionate that you have to keep reminding yourself how bad he is when he's not being blatantly terrible.

For me, the distaste is because I get the vibe that he isn't all that he seems/wants to be. He is parroting progressive/feminist ideas he heard in college but he has an underlying entitlement that you can tell is going to come out at some point.

I think he is the classic "nice guy" where he will feel like he is entitled to affection from a woman because he has done and said all the right, feminist-approved things. And he will turn nasty when he doesn't get what he thinks he deserves.

And for all his presumed protesting about prostitution and his dad's behavior, once he'd done it himself, he got comfortable with it pretty quick. His only hesitation about it was pretty patronizing.

[Anonymous]

Who has the best butt among the three? Albie English wanker or Cameron? My vote goes to Albie although we haven’t seen Ethan’s yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys think Daphne is happy with her situation? I get the feeling that some people here think she has her cake and is eating it too (married to rich, good looking Cam, banging a hot trainer on the side) but some of her facial expressions suggest to me that she’s not happy about Cam’s cheating, she knows way more about it than she’s letting on to Harper, and she might end up snapping.

It seems to me that she is lying to herself when she tells Harper she’s found a way to be at peace with it.

There was this very interesting exchange in Noto where Daphne asks Harper if she thinks Ethan would cheat, and Harper basically says "absolutely not, he's not like that." This is before Daphne has confessed that she knows Cameron cheats, and Daphne has this look on her face that is *pissed*. And you can understand it because she knows what Cameron is like and Daphne is very much an alpha woman (she is almost certainly used to being the prettiest woman in any room, and having the hottest husband), and I think it really, really bothered her that Harper and Ethan might have something that Daphne can't have -- a loyal marriage.

I think Daphne wants very much to believe that all rich guys cheat, it's just part of the deal, and that's why it's okay for her to look the other way and do "what she wants." I actually think she finds Harper and Ethan kind of threatening, because if they can be wealthy and find a way to still have a functioning monogamous relationship, then what does that make Daphne and Cameron?

There are also these exchanges in Noto that highlighted how Ethan and Cameron are different, even though they are both rich and successful. Ethan is "a nerd" (Harper fully endorses this) and built his company with his intelligence and his success is based on diligent hard work and being smart. Cameron is a shmoozer. He's a finance guy and his success is built on, essentially, a house of cards (Daphne even alludes to this when she notes that a lot of Cameron's colleagues are "Bernie Madoff types" -- that's not a compliment, even in finance circles). So I think there's this implication that Ethan and Harper are kind of the real deal, that their wealth is more earned and that their marriage is more meaningful. And that Cameron and Daphne are all surface. And I don't think Daphne or Cameron enjoys thinking about that comparison but I think they've both considered it.

But I also think that Daphne and Cameron will successfully get either Ethan or Harper or both to do something that betrays the other, and that the story of the foursome will end with Daphne and Cameron victorious in bringing the other couple down their level.