Ford dropping F-150 EV in $20 billion pivot back to gasoline

[Anonymous]

Ford Motor Co. is drastically scaling back its electric vehicle plans and refocusing its U.S. manufacturing footprint on hybrid and gasoline vehicles to reduce losses from an EV market that never developed the way it envisioned

https://www.autonews.com/ford/an-ford-ev-pivot-lightning-death-1215/

So if Ford and all Americans automakers are getting out of the EV market is it time to drop all tariffs on Chinese EVs? American automakers are telling us that they are not in the EV business and Americans do not want to buy EVs specially EVs that cost $20,000.

EV will not compete with gas power cars. So what is the reason for high tariffs of Chinese EVs?

[Anonymous]

Biden tried to have a defacto mandate to produce more EVs. The manufacturers responded by investing more in the production of EVs. Now that Trump is in charge he doesn't give a shit about climate and loves oil so he undid everything Biden did (not that I completely agreed with that approach either). Trump doesn't want Chinese stuff here. Trump doesn't want China making any money much less on EVs. So we get more emissions, less consumer choice and more expensive gas and cars.

[Anonymous]

I was always disappointed that the Ford lightning never took off. When they first announced it, it was supposed to cost about $40,000 for a basic model. They took deposits and by the time production models were out. It was closer to 80 and out of reach for many of those people who put deposits down.

[Anonymous]

No. They aren't getting out, they are changing focus. Whoever thought EV trucks would be a thing was insane. But smaller cars oriented toward urban and suburban people will continue.

[Anonymous]

I mean, this is why we're about to invade Venezuela. Ford knows it and is getting ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. They aren't getting out, they are changing focus. Whoever thought EV trucks would be a thing was insane. But smaller cars oriented toward urban and suburban people will continue.

What are you talking about? Ford had one of the best EVs on the market with the F150. It doubled as a generator which was a huge selling point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden tried to have a defacto mandate to produce more EVs. The manufacturers responded by investing more in the production of EVs. Now that Trump is in charge he doesn't give a shit about climate and loves oil so he undid everything Biden did (not that I completely agreed with that approach either). Trump doesn't want Chinese stuff here. Trump doesn't want China making any money much less on EVs. So we get more emissions, less consumer choice and more expensive gas and cars.

Above is completely accurate from my perspective as an automotive industry employee.

Chinese cars do not conform with American safety standards. Their structure and guts are cheaped out. It's like the early days of import cars in America even though they look nice and shiny.

Also, I'm aware nobody white collar has any pity for American manufacturing workers. However, I hope you'll give some thought to to the many social problems created by the loss of good-paying American jobs with benefits to other countries. Also, having domestic manufacturing of complex products is truthfully a major national security issue. You might enjoy your $20K car without an consequences to you personally but in aggregate there might be grave risks and long-term consequences for the broader economy. Cheap, junky products lead to more consumption. Quicker replacements, more trash, etc.

Americans think they are entitled to everything. The best jobs at the highest pay, the newest technology at no increase in price from anywhere in the world, control the world's politics without spending more and ensuring domestic manufacturing capability, etc. But that's not realistic.

If you want to help the electric vehicle industry, just buy an electric vehicle. Believe me, everyone is looking for signs of sustainable consumer interest.

[Anonymous]

Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden tried to have a defacto mandate to produce more EVs. The manufacturers responded by investing more in the production of EVs. Now that Trump is in charge he doesn't give a shit about climate and loves oil so he undid everything Biden did (not that I completely agreed with that approach either). Trump doesn't want Chinese stuff here. Trump doesn't want China making any money much less on EVs. So we get more emissions, less consumer choice and more expensive gas and cars.

Above is completely accurate from my perspective as an automotive industry employee.

Chinese cars do not conform with American safety standards. Their structure and guts are cheaped out. It's like the early days of import cars in America even though they look nice and shiny.

Also, I'm aware nobody white collar has any pity for American manufacturing workers. However, I hope you'll give some thought to to the many social problems created by the loss of good-paying American jobs with benefits to other countries. Also, having domestic manufacturing of complex products is truthfully a major national security issue. You might enjoy your $20K car without an consequences to you personally but in aggregate there might be grave risks and long-term consequences for the broader economy. Cheap, junky products lead to more consumption. Quicker replacements, more trash, etc.

Americans think they are entitled to everything. The best jobs at the highest pay, the newest technology at no increase in price from anywhere in the world, control the world's politics without spending more and ensuring domestic manufacturing capability, etc. But that's not realistic.

If you want to help the electric vehicle industry, just buy an electric vehicle. Believe me, everyone is looking for signs of sustainable consumer interest.

You know nothing about Chinese manufacturing or Chinese EVs. Tesla manufactures the majority of their cars in China. Their cars are cheaper because of superior manufacturing(automation, integrated supply lines, etc). The Chinese will easily surpass US safety standards with a product that is superior to any car made in the US and for 1/2 the cost. China passenger car market is 40% of the world market. The US is only 16% of the market. Now the Chinese are moving in to EV semi trucks.

You are like most people in the industry- totally clueless what is going in the largest car market in the world. China is the global leader in car design and manufacturing. Yet you think they can not meet US safety standards? BDY one car manufacturer in China has 110,000 engineers. Ford has 11,000 worldwide. There are over 300 car manufacturers in China. Chinese cars and EVs meet EU safety standards which are a lot more stringent vs the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden tried to have a defacto mandate to produce more EVs. The manufacturers responded by investing more in the production of EVs. Now that Trump is in charge he doesn't give a shit about climate and loves oil so he undid everything Biden did (not that I completely agreed with that approach either). Trump doesn't want Chinese stuff here. Trump doesn't want China making any money much less on EVs. So we get more emissions, less consumer choice and more expensive gas and cars.

Above is completely accurate from my perspective as an automotive industry employee.

Chinese cars do not conform with American safety standards. Their structure and guts are cheaped out. It's like the early days of import cars in America even though they look nice and shiny.

Also, I'm aware nobody white collar has any pity for American manufacturing workers. However, I hope you'll give some thought to to the many social problems created by the loss of good-paying American jobs with benefits to other countries. Also, having domestic manufacturing of complex products is truthfully a major national security issue. You might enjoy your $20K car without an consequences to you personally but in aggregate there might be grave risks and long-term consequences for the broader economy. Cheap, junky products lead to more consumption. Quicker replacements, more trash, etc.

Americans think they are entitled to everything. The best jobs at the highest pay, the newest technology at no increase in price from anywhere in the world, control the world's politics without spending more and ensuring domestic manufacturing capability, etc. But that's not realistic.

If you want to help the electric vehicle industry, just buy an electric vehicle. Believe me, everyone is looking for signs of sustainable consumer interest.

You know nothing about Chinese manufacturing or Chinese EVs. Tesla manufactures the majority of their cars in China. Their cars are cheaper because of superior manufacturing(automation, integrated supply lines, etc). The Chinese will easily surpass US safety standards with a product that is superior to any car made in the US and for 1/2 the cost. China passenger car market is 40% of the world market. The US is only 16% of the market. Now the Chinese are moving in to EV semi trucks.

You are like most people in the industry- totally clueless what is going in the largest car market in the world. China is the global leader in car design and manufacturing. Yet you think they can not meet US safety standards? BDY one car manufacturer in China has 110,000 engineers. Ford has 11,000 worldwide. There are over 300 car manufacturers in China. Chinese cars and EVs meet EU safety standards which are a lot more stringent vs the US

It's easy for you to take cheap shots at me. Relatively few Chinese models are exported to Europe. Especially not lots of the cheaper cars that you would like access to. EU safety standards are fairly similar to US safety standards, but are not harmonized.

It is sad for me that you lack faith in American ingenuity, American engineering, and American manufacturing.

Students from all over the world come to American universities to study STEM here, H1B visa holders want to move here permanently, and Tesla products were designed by Americans/people in America. But you just want to continue the tired narrative of how inferior the domestic industry must be because it doesn't give you personally exactly what you want to buy at the exact low price that you want to pay for it. You are intellectually blinded by your own consumer self-interest and low faith in American workers.

I can assure you that people in the US industry are quite well-informed about China. Most global companies have JVs there. Tesla produces there but is starting to struggle since it doesn't have the funds to keep innovating rapidly. There is a lot of product choice because many startup companies have goverment or private investment similar to Tesla during its early massive money-losing years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. They aren't getting out, they are changing focus. Whoever thought EV trucks would be a thing was insane. But smaller cars oriented toward urban and suburban people will continue.

What are you talking about? Ford had one of the best EVs on the market with the F150. It doubled as a generator which was a huge selling point.

And they sold a grand total of ZERO to the fleets.

The F150 is the world's best selling truck and has been for decades. But that isn't because of people like you and me. Itis because state governments, the federal government, builders and contractors buy them by the lot of 5000 at a time. And NONE was a Lightening. It ws a stupid gimmick. That's it.

[Anonymous]

If they are refusing to sell EVs these tariffs have to go to zero.

I do understand why republicans will not allow us to buy EVs.

[Anonymous]

For the F-150, a good quality hybrid makes a while lot more sense than a pure EV ever did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. They aren't getting out, they are changing focus. Whoever thought EV trucks would be a thing was insane. But smaller cars oriented toward urban and suburban people will continue.

This. Especially the insane part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden tried to have a defacto mandate to produce more EVs. The manufacturers responded by investing more in the production of EVs. Now that Trump is in charge he doesn't give a shit about climate and loves oil so he undid everything Biden did (not that I completely agreed with that approach either). Trump doesn't want Chinese stuff here. Trump doesn't want China making any money much less on EVs. So we get more emissions, less consumer choice and more expensive gas and cars.

Above is completely accurate from my perspective as an automotive industry employee.

Chinese cars do not conform with American safety standards. Their structure and guts are cheaped out. It's like the early days of import cars in America even though they look nice and shiny.

Also, I'm aware nobody white collar has any pity for American manufacturing workers. However, I hope you'll give some thought to to the many social problems created by the loss of good-paying American jobs with benefits to other countries. Also, having domestic manufacturing of complex products is truthfully a major national security issue. You might enjoy your $20K car without an consequences to you personally but in aggregate there might be grave risks and long-term consequences for the broader economy. Cheap, junky products lead to more consumption. Quicker replacements, more trash, etc.

Americans think they are entitled to everything. The best jobs at the highest pay, the newest technology at no increase in price from anywhere in the world, control the world's politics without spending more and ensuring domestic manufacturing capability, etc. But that's not realistic.

If you want to help the electric vehicle industry, just buy an electric vehicle. Believe me, everyone is looking for signs of sustainable consumer interest.

You know nothing about Chinese manufacturing or Chinese EVs. Tesla manufactures the majority of their cars in China. Their cars are cheaper because of superior manufacturing(automation, integrated supply lines, etc). The Chinese will easily surpass US safety standards with a product that is superior to any car made in the US and for 1/2 the cost. China passenger car market is 40% of the world market. The US is only 16% of the market. Now the Chinese are moving in to EV semi trucks.

You are like most people in the industry- totally clueless what is going in the largest car market in the world. China is the global leader in car design and manufacturing. Yet you think they can not meet US safety standards? BDY one car manufacturer in China has 110,000 engineers. Ford has 11,000 worldwide. There are over 300 car manufacturers in China. Chinese cars and EVs meet EU safety standards which are a lot more stringent vs the US

It's easy for you to take cheap shots at me. Relatively few Chinese models are exported to Europe. Especially not lots of the cheaper cars that you would like access to. EU safety standards are fairly similar to US safety standards, but are not harmonized.

It is sad for me that you lack faith in American ingenuity, American engineering, and American manufacturing.

Students from all over the world come to American universities to study STEM here, H1B visa holders want to move here permanently, and Tesla products were designed by Americans/people in America. But you just want to continue the tired narrative of how inferior the domestic industry must be because it doesn't give you personally exactly what you want to buy at the exact low price that you want to pay for it. You are intellectually blinded by your own consumer self-interest and low faith in American workers.

I can assure you that people in the US industry are quite well-informed about China. Most global companies have JVs there. Tesla produces there but is starting to struggle since it doesn't have the funds to keep innovating rapidly. There is a lot of product choice because many startup companies have goverment or private investment similar to Tesla during its early massive money-losing years.

This reads like MAGA PR post.