Ford dropping F-150 EV in $20 billion pivot back to gasoline

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

LOL @ "modelling suggests.". Even if it actually exists, there's zero infrastructure for this.

Hydrogen is a terrible fuel for cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

lol too expensive! Hydrogen per gallon price equivalent to a gallon of gas is $30. The problem you do not understand is EVs are 91-94% efficient. That is 3-4 times more efficient vs burning fossil fuels or hydrogen made from natural gas.

The US is already generating 43% of it electricity from NG. If NG increases by $1 this winter your electricity bill will increase by 25%. Now you want to use NG to make hydrogen? There is no carbon saving, it’s more expensive and increase demand will increase electricity prices.

Sounds like a great plan!

[Anonymous]

So the only way you can make a gas car more efficient is to make it run on electricity and convert the engine to a generator.

This is what ford is doing.

[Anonymous]

I was in two major cities in China last year (Shanghai and Chengdu) and the EVs are impressive. About half the cars on the road are EVs or hybrids -- easy to tell because they have a green license plate.

The interior and interface on the EVs is way ahead of just about all I've seen on EVs from other countries, except maybe Tesla (interface-wise.. Tesla interiors are nothing special). Yes, those $20k EVs will not pass US crash testing, but give it a year or two and they will, if they want to. Chinese EVs do sell in Europe, so they need to meet the NCAP safety regulations which are not far from US safety regs.

And in my recent trip to Southeast Asia, Chinese EVs are really taking over. Consumers there are very price-conscious, and you get a lot of value for your money, crashworthiness aside. The biggest issue there is lack of public EV charging infrastructure, but most people seem to be using them around town so can charge at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

lol too expensive! Hydrogen per gallon price equivalent to a gallon of gas is $30. The problem you do not understand is EVs are 91-94% efficient. That is 3-4 times more efficient vs burning fossil fuels or hydrogen made from natural gas.

The US is already generating 43% of it electricity from NG. If NG increases by $1 this winter your electricity bill will increase by 25%. Now you want to use NG to make hydrogen? There is no carbon saving, it’s more expensive and increase demand will increase electricity prices.

Sounds like a great plan!

Yet every major oil company is heavily investing in hydrogen production. Electricity production will go nuclear, hydrogen cars will piss water a much needed commodity in states like CA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the only way you can make a gas car more efficient is to make it run on electricity and convert the engine to a generator.

This is what ford is doing.

This has been done for a few different cars. It’s basically the technology used in freight trains. I’d guess that the majority of the time you would be running on battery, and the gas would only kick in on long trips or when towing. The smaller engine used for charging the batteries could use the Atkinson cycle, which would make it pretty efficient. It’s honestly a great idea. EV 95% of the time, but gas range and fill-up speed when needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an EV and I would never buy one again. First, it has sent our electric bill through the roof - with electricity going up all the time, I'm not sure it's that much less than gasoline! Second, the car needs a lot more maintenance than a regular gas vehicle, and its all much more expensive. The tires must be replaced 2x a year. The battery hasn't needed replacing yet but when it does, it will cost a fortune. Third, the risk of fire is really scary - once they start burning, it's really hard to put them out. For me, I'm counting the months until I can trade it in on a gas vehicle.

Troll. There is nowhere in the country where it costs more to operate an EV than a gas car. And no one needs to replace tires 2x a year. And virtually no one is replacing the battery. There are tens of thousands of Tesla that are over 10 years old on the road and yet you’d struggle to find a few scattered stories of people replacing the battery.

EV maintenance is a fraction of ICE maintenance because the car doesn’t depends on constant explosions to run. Arguing otherwise is just not serious.

I'm this poster and it is a BMW iX. Maybe I should have bought a Tesla.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

lol too expensive! Hydrogen per gallon price equivalent to a gallon of gas is $30. The problem you do not understand is EVs are 91-94% efficient. That is 3-4 times more efficient vs burning fossil fuels or hydrogen made from natural gas.

The US is already generating 43% of it electricity from NG. If NG increases by $1 this winter your electricity bill will increase by 25%. Now you want to use NG to make hydrogen? There is no carbon saving, it’s more expensive and increase demand will increase electricity prices.

Sounds like a great plan!

Yet every major oil company is heavily investing in hydrogen production. Electricity production will go nuclear, hydrogen cars will piss water a much needed commodity in states like CA.

My friend is producing (overseas) a hydrogen powered stove that only needs water - https://www.kinetic7.com/ Would be great if they could convert that to cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

lol too expensive! Hydrogen per gallon price equivalent to a gallon of gas is $30. The problem you do not understand is EVs are 91-94% efficient. That is 3-4 times more efficient vs burning fossil fuels or hydrogen made from natural gas.

The US is already generating 43% of it electricity from NG. If NG increases by $1 this winter your electricity bill will increase by 25%. Now you want to use NG to make hydrogen? There is no carbon saving, it’s more expensive and increase demand will increase electricity prices.

Sounds like a great plan!

Yet every major oil company is heavily investing in hydrogen production. Electricity production will go nuclear, hydrogen cars will piss water a much needed commodity in states like CA.

My friend is producing (overseas) a hydrogen powered stove that only needs water - https://www.kinetic7.com/ Would be great if they could convert that to cars.

It also has — and needs — a solar panel and a battery. It needs electricity to split water into hydrogen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart move the transition from ICE vehicles will not be to traditional EVs like Teslas but to hydrogen powered vehicles.

It won’t happen as quickly as many would like to see late 2060s or early 2070s but it will eventually happen.

This is ridiculous. Look at the issues with getting charging stations for EVs up and running and multiply those by 1,000 for hydrogen. Not to mention there is only like one model being produced now.

I mean I could see some fleets using hydrogen but it will be forever before consumers are buying them.

Oil companies will transition to hydrogen production and distribution. Existing gas stations will phase into hydrogen charging stations.

There is no naturally occurring source of hydrogen. Almost all of it is derived from natural gas or other hydrocarbons.

To make hydrogen, you must use electricity. Far more efficient to either burn the hydrocarbons or use the electricity directly.

There is no net energy in hydrogen and huge handling issues. It will never work.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

You should have paid attention to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen

"Modeling suggests that enough natural hydrogen exists to meet humanity's demand for hydrogen for thousands of years"

lol too expensive! Hydrogen per gallon price equivalent to a gallon of gas is $30. The problem you do not understand is EVs are 91-94% efficient. That is 3-4 times more efficient vs burning fossil fuels or hydrogen made from natural gas.

The US is already generating 43% of it electricity from NG. If NG increases by $1 this winter your electricity bill will increase by 25%. Now you want to use NG to make hydrogen? There is no carbon saving, it’s more expensive and increase demand will increase electricity prices.

Sounds like a great plan!

You keep resorting to creating hydrogen from somewhere and are ignoring the fact that there are vast deposits of hydrogen. In term sof infrastructure, the same arguments were made with respect to internal combustion engines, telephones, cellphones, the internet, etc., etc. The infrstucture gets built over time. It doesn't just bloom like a crocus.

[Anonymous]

Truck buyers are the probably the pickiest owners out there. The lightening can tow but loses half the range.

They are awesome otherwise, but just priced too high. The batteries have very little degradation based on Reddit comments. They use mostly normal F150 parts so they should be easy to get repairs done for a long time. I might pick up a used one when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truck buyers are the probably the pickiest owners out there. The lightening can tow but loses half the range.

They are awesome otherwise, but just priced too high. The batteries have very little degradation based on Reddit comments. They use mostly normal F150 parts so they should be easy to get repairs done for a long time. I might pick up a used one when the time comes.

If you’re lucky. I watched some towing tests, and for any decent sized trailer the range is about 120 miles. You can get 350-400 miles with a gas or hybrid F150, and you can easily gas up and be driving again. The lightning tows great, but it’s not practical for towing unless it’s very short range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an EV and I would never buy one again. First, it has sent our electric bill through the roof - with electricity going up all the time, I'm not sure it's that much less than gasoline! Second, the car needs a lot more maintenance than a regular gas vehicle, and its all much more expensive. The tires must be replaced 2x a year. The battery hasn't needed replacing yet but when it does, it will cost a fortune. Third, the risk of fire is really scary - once they start burning, it's really hard to put them out. For me, I'm counting the months until I can trade it in on a gas vehicle.

Hmmmm. I haven’t noticed much of an increase in our electricity bill since we bought a Tesla. We’re the opposite, now that we have an EV (and three ICE vehicles), we want to switch to all EV. They’re simply easier to maintain.

Nonetheless, I’m in the auto industry and everyone is betting that hydrogen, not EV, is the future.