DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok DA parents. Let's hear your arguments for why losing Sky Blue PDA, MI Hawks and FC Stars to ECNL does not matter...

It does matter but it is more of a regional issue. Certainly losing PDA affects the overall strength of the division, but the players ultimately decide where to play. Frankly, what a club in Michigan does has several degrees of separation from my kid, PDA less so. But, at the end of the day, the players will choose the platform that works for them.

Does any of this mean that my kid is going to immediately run to BRYC, McLean or Loudoun now? Not any more or less than before honestly. But, I am one of the few posters that has always maintained that there is room for both leagues in regards to the girls game. Women's soccer is huge in this country and the overall availability to more higher quality programs does not harm the players. It DOES harm the chest beaters who need to proclaim their kid is in the best, but instead they should be thinking, my kid is in the best for her.

#MONEYGRAB

Yes, every girl gets to be ELITE and wear a fancy patch. The big USSDA and ECNL nets has resulted in dilution and no movement and a bunch of B teamers will be on DD's roster. Nothing new, no concentration of talent. I guess I should be more thankful that so many parents willing to put their DD on as a roster filler and support an elite option almost everywhere I drive in NoVA. Do the DA-lovers even realize that their DD will get starts 25% of the time, yes, and then be quickly pulled out to ride the pine like they do the other 75% of the matches??

Doesn’t your DD get the challenge she needs at National Training Centers and her National Team call ups?

Hmmmm, in that case could then save $$ and switch to play with the DD of the Pipeline poster.

If DD is player 1-6 giving up starts to B players 12-20 from the same local scene, that stinks. An environment where DD has to battle weekly to be in that 1-6 against players that were in the 1-6 from surrounding clubs, now that is healthy. New faces, new weekly competition. This instead is the same old club's green or red or blue team served up as something fresh and new and elite, but it's the same 'ol, same ol'

If your DD is player 12-20, lucky you, she gets to wear a patch now because daddy can pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ It isn’t that you will lose it will be the manner in which you happen to lose. Believe me nobody would ever bill a Loudoun vs PDA game as the “Super Bowl of Soccer”.

What you will find out is that your team is not uniquely good beyond CCL. Even BRYC in a weak division found out that there is another level.

You miss the point. I don't care at all about the scores in youth soccer. Like - at all.

[Anonymous]

Back in the 80s it was: my dad's stronger than your dad.

2018: my daughter is better than your daughter.

good lord. Take a step back. None.of.this.shit.matters. It just doesn't in life.

I had fun playing, but women's college soccer wasn't all it's cracked up to be and I dropped it when my STEM degree and my desire to have a social life in college took over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bet FCV Dad was crying when Sky Blue PDA embarrassed (his favorite word) them in the first DA game ever. It brought back bad memories of DD losing to Loudoun so many times. If only his DD could be on the best soccer team in the universe - all would be good. But there is no World Cup for his DD. Such a tragic tale of sorrow.

PDA is a great club and team, something that humility can recognize and give credit to. Your bravado is going to take a big hit when you actually begin to play some strong teams. Good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I hear some of the major clubs take issue with the strict DA rules as being the best for player development. DA limited substitution rules prevent re-entry of girls during a half. Even college soccer in the U.S. allows re-entry in second half. US Soccer is so concerned about developing for the international game when what we parents want is to get our girls into college soccer. We realize USWNT is a pipe dream. It's the top clubs that really matter. If they leave, it's over.

US Soccer may figure it out eventually but it took them 5-10 years to work out boys soccer. Do they have that long of a window on the girls side?

ECNL has same re-entry constraint.

No they don’t. You can sub more players, and players can renter in ECNL

Not PP but at the 14-15 age groups, it appears quite similar, but clearly not the same (couldn't find an exact detailed explanation, but given 18 player game roster max, 1 goalie per team so 7 field subs max ( if a back up goalie) then 6 field subs?

DA- "7 subs with across 3 moments with no re-entry. half time does not count as "moment", five across 3 for U-16/17 and U-18/19"".

ECNL - "Substitutions: U13-U18/U19: FIFA, seven (7) per half. Players may not re-enter in the same half."

Having watched DA & ECNL substitutions, not being able to go back in either doesn't leave a whole lot of getting in a groove type thing.. I feel like they both have their pluses and minuses depending on the coaches philosophy.

However it doesn't affect the number of minutes a coach can allocate to players, maybe just changes of strategy over the game. Comes down to coach's philosophy on time distribution on development vs winning - not the sub rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easy search

FCV DA- 23 games this year
Mclean u16 ECNL - 14 games this year

9 games difference?

What's that? 3 separate tournaments to catch up? What's the added cost that ECNL leaves off to seem more fiscally competitive.

Thank you. My DD in ECNL played 44 competitive games this year (league games plus ECNL Florida showcase and other showcase tournaments). She never played more than 1 game in a day. Please explain how the PP's statement that DA plays twice as many games as ECNL is true.

Cost is a separate debate that I frankly don't care about.

So your daughter played 14 league games and 30 tournament/showcase games so far this year. You sure about that?

That's like 10 showcases in a year?

You are close... 8 showcases, plus the ECNL playoffs. Total of 30 tournament games and 14 league games. So is you DA team playing twice as many games (88 games) as my kid's ECNL team (as the PP claimed)?

NP here. Why the heck would your team do 8 showcases? That is insane, and hopefully not the norm.

Maybe so the girls can be seen by as many college coaches as possible? Just a wild guess.

If you need to go to 8 showcases to find a reasonable number of college coaches who may be interested, there is a serious problem with the league. That's way more than your average top travel team needs to do to place their players in college. For boys DA, there are exactly 2 showcases a year that all the teams go to, and virtually all the college coaches, plus scouts from pro teams, go to them as well. It's very efficient and cuts down on travel costs. I had assumed girls DA and ECNL followed a similar format.

Can someone with ECNL experience confirm whether it's normal/possible for a team to go to 8 ECNL showcases, plus playoffs?

NP and ECNL parent here. First there are not "8 ECNL showcases." There are 2 ECNL showcase plus the ECNL playoffs. Other showcase type tournaments commonly attended each year by our ECNL team include Jeff Cup, CASL, Loudoun, Bethesda, OBGC and SAC. So not impossible or even unusual for an ECNL team to play 8 showcases plus playoffs.

Thanks for the response. I have a follow-up if you are willing to answer: what is the reason a team would decide to go to as many as 6-8 additional tournaments/showcases on top of the 2 ECNL ones (plus potential playoffs)? Do teams feel that there are not enough college coaches in attendance at the official ECNL showcases? And do parents have to pay all the travel costs for all the showcases?

Sure, first the costs of additional showcases are pretty minimal. For the additional 6 showcases my DD's team goes to only CASL and Jeff Cup have any travel/lodging costs and those are minimal since the kids share a bus ride. The other showcases are all local.

As for why 6 additional showcases ... I have not asked the coaches but there are probably several reasons.

First, most girls don't go to all 8 of the showcases the team participates in. The girls playing HS soccer will probably miss a couple. Injuries, college visits, SAT/ACT exams, weddings, graduations, etc will rule out some of the showcase weekends.

Third, smaller college programs don't attend most of the 8 showcases. Some of the NESCAC colleges my DD is interested in only attend 2 or 3 of the 8 total showcases the team participates in. So participating in more showcases maximizes the likelihood that each player on the roster will get to play in front of colleges that are of interest to the player and that fit each players academic and athletic profile.

Fourth, for the girls not playing HS soccer it makes sense to keep them playing competitive games when the ECNL league games go dormant during the HS season.

Again these are just my thoughts as a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Easy search

FCV DA- 23 games this year
Mclean u16 ECNL - 14 games this year

9 games difference?

What's that? 3 separate tournaments to catch up? What's the added cost that ECNL leaves off to seem more fiscally competitive.

Thank you. My DD in ECNL played 44 competitive games this year (league games plus ECNL Florida showcase and other showcase tournaments). She never played more than 1 game in a day. Please explain how the PP's statement that DA plays twice as many games as ECNL is true.

Cost is a separate debate that I frankly don't care about.

So your daughter played 14 league games and 30 tournament/showcase games so far this year. You sure about that?

That's like 10 showcases in a year?

You are close... 8 showcases, plus the ECNL playoffs. Total of 30 tournament games and 14 league games. So is you DA team playing twice as many games (88 games) as my kid's ECNL team (as the PP claimed)?

NP here. Why the heck would your team do 8 showcases? That is insane, and hopefully not the norm.

Maybe so the girls can be seen by as many college coaches as possible? Just a wild guess.

If you need to go to 8 showcases to find a reasonable number of college coaches who may be interested, there is a serious problem with the league. That's way more than your average top travel team needs to do to place their players in college. For boys DA, there are exactly 2 showcases a year that all the teams go to, and virtually all the college coaches, plus scouts from pro teams, go to them as well. It's very efficient and cuts down on travel costs. I had assumed girls DA and ECNL followed a similar format.

Can someone with ECNL experience confirm whether it's normal/possible for a team to go to 8 ECNL showcases, plus playoffs?

NP and ECNL parent here. First there are not "8 ECNL showcases." There are 2 ECNL showcase plus the ECNL playoffs. Other showcase type tournaments commonly attended each year by our ECNL team include Jeff Cup, CASL, Loudoun, Bethesda, OBGC and SAC. So not impossible or even unusual for an ECNL team to play 8 showcases plus playoffs.

Thanks for the response. I have a follow-up if you are willing to answer: what is the reason a team would decide to go to as many as 6-8 additional tournaments/showcases on top of the 2 ECNL ones (plus potential playoffs)? Do teams feel that there are not enough college coaches in attendance at the official ECNL showcases? And do parents have to pay all the travel costs for all the showcases?

Sure, first the costs of additional showcases are pretty minimal. For the additional 6 showcases my DD's team goes to only CASL and Jeff Cup have any travel/lodging costs and those are minimal since the kids share a bus ride. The other showcases are all local.

As for why 6 additional showcases ... I have not asked the coaches but there are probably several reasons.

First, most girls don't go to all 8 of the showcases the team participates in. The girls playing HS soccer will probably miss a couple. Injuries, college visits, SAT/ACT exams, weddings, graduations, etc will rule out some of the showcase weekends.

Third, smaller college programs don't attend most of the 8 showcases. Some of the NESCAC colleges my DD is interested in only attend 2 or 3 of the 8 total showcases the team participates in. So participating in more showcases maximizes the likelihood that each player on the roster will get to play in front of colleges that are of interest to the player and that fit each players academic and athletic profile.

Fourth, for the girls not playing HS soccer it makes sense to keep them playing competitive games when the ECNL league games go dormant during the HS season.

Again these are just my thoughts as a parent.

My second point disappeared somehow. The additional showcases are important to girls who are 8-20 on the roster. Those girls benefit greatly from additional opportunities to be seen by college coaches beyond the ECNL events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok DA parents. Let's hear your arguments for why losing Sky Blue PDA, MI Hawks and FC Stars to ECNL does not matter...

I have yet to see announcements from the clubs themslves; I don't care how many articles any posts. None of these clubs have made announcements, meaning it still remains an unconfirmed rumor.

It also means negotiations could be ongoing with USSF.

[Anonymous]

^^Thanks--that's useful information. I can see how a showcase team that lets you opt in or out of particular tournaments (outside of the ECNL-mandated ones) would be a good option for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok DA parents. Let's hear your arguments for why losing Sky Blue PDA, MI Hawks and FC Stars to ECNL does not matter...

I have yet to see announcements from the clubs themslves; I don't care how many articles any posts. None of these clubs have made announcements, meaning it still remains an unconfirmed rumor.

It also means negotiations could be ongoing with USSF.

These club announcements will be made tomorrow (Wed).

[Anonymous]

And now we have US Youth Soccer National Leagues. My brain hurts...

https://www.usyouthsoccer.org/us-youth-soccer-announces-new-leagues-structure---the-us-youth-soccer-national-leagues/

[Anonymous]

No one can deny that PDA and company are great clubs in the sense that they have strong teams (as much a function of name reputation and available player pool as anything else). Are they great developmentally? I don't know, because I have often noted in looking at the GDA stats that PDA for example is very skewed in starts. I also know that those megaclubs don't like being told what to do (as in 25% starts is one of the rules they don't care for). They want to win and win big. If that means some players ride the bench, so be it. For example, even against the weaker clubs in the division, they still often don't start their non-starters, and if they do, it's for limited minutes. So, while they are great at winning, would PDA be great to develop my DD? I'm not sure about that.

However, I will again reiterate: their teams are always strong teams - by a Cobra Kai approach or however it is.

That said, we didn't choose the GDA because of PDA, and we won't leave because of it either. I'm overall impressed with year one of the GDA. Is it perfect? No. Did it start stronger than the boys did? Yes. Do I think the ECNL will go away? No. But it took a long, long time for US Youth Soccer's ODP program and National League program to become the watered down product it is today. A looong time. (which by the way, I still recommend and say it has its place. If you aren't doing DA, please, put your child in ODP).

More importantly, the philosophy it is founded on is solid. The year round season is better to anyone who is objective. I keep hearing about how important high school soccer is to girls. That's because of social reasons. So if your player is playing soccer socially, the GDA is not the right choice - based on the very principles it was founded on. If your player wants to become the greatest player possible, the GDA is the right choice - with or without PDA. Any and every league is always more than 5 or even 10 clubs. The girls who play year round will become better than they will by high school soccer. Period.

To anyone though who thinks the USSF will simply roll over, I honestly think you don't realize the type of organization it is. USSF is a top down, we will do what we want, kind of organization. I have seen sooo many showcases, sooo many tournaments. The quality of the DA showcases is undeniable.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ the last two items in that one paragraph were intended to be separate items.

[Anonymous]

Are we calling Jeff Cup a showcase. Man I'm done with this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From what I hear some of the major clubs take issue with the strict DA rules as being the best for player development. DA limited substitution rules prevent re-entry of girls during a half. Even college soccer in the U.S. allows re-entry in second half. US Soccer is so concerned about developing for the international game when what we parents want is to get our girls into college soccer. We realize USWNT is a pipe dream. It's the top clubs that really matter. If they leave, it's over.

US Soccer may figure it out eventually but it took them 5-10 years to work out boys soccer. Do they have that long of a window on the girls side?

And the bolded is a major problem with US Soccer on the world stage. The simple fact that the college game cant even play the same game as the rest of the world does is pathetic. Nothing says be an aggressive raw athlete first and a talented soccer player second than the ability to rest and then go back into the game later. Who needs possession to tire the other team down when instead you can just sprint after long ball after long ball all game until one goes in for a goal.

It is this fundamental objective that US Soccer with DA is trying to change. No, they are not interested in developing college players by mimicking the college game, they are trying to develop players who are capable of playing the same game that the rest of the world is playing.

American style of possession is; switch, switch, release forward along wing, cross, shoot repeat. There is no patience or proper tempo of play.

Damn..I read this and asked myself if I had written it and forgotten I did. Perfectly put.