Rule of Law in US -- blurred lines between "illegal" versus "immoral" or "unethical"

[Anonymous]

While reading many of the posts here on DCUM - particularly those threads related to ICE - I wonder where the US went off the rails in defining and governing based on "rule of law" -- IMHO the lines have been blurred between what's "illegal" versus "immoral" or "unethical" -- or even "unfair".

Case in point....shoplifting. It's illegal and against the law. But now we have hordes of people just going into stores and walking away with armfuls of stolen goods. No punishment. Nothing to deter further shoplifting. This is NOT ok.

Another case in point...ICE raids. Are the current methods "immoral" or "unethical"? Sure. But are they truly "illegal"? That's on a case-by-case basis and only for the courts to decide. It's the "rule of law" that must be followed. You can protest the methods but don't judge or demonize ICE agents (or police officers, or any other federal agents) for doing their job and following the "rule of law".

While the US does not have a Code of Conduct, we do have a Constitution and Laws. Whether or not something is "unconstitutional" or "illegal" on sticky subjects should go to the courts for judges to decide. Those who disagree with the courts' decisions or disagree with the "rule of law" need to go pound sand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While reading many of the posts here on DCUM - particularly those threads related to ICE - I wonder where the US went off the rails in defining and governing based on "rule of law" -- IMHO the lines have been blurred between what's "illegal" versus "immoral" or "unethical" -- or even "unfair".

Case in point....shoplifting. It's illegal and against the law. But now we have hordes of people just going into stores and walking away with armfuls of stolen goods. No punishment. Nothing to deter further shoplifting. This is NOT ok.

Another case in point...ICE raids. Are the current methods "immoral" or "unethical"? Sure. But are they truly "illegal"? That's on a case-by-case basis and only for the courts to decide. It's the "rule of law" that must be followed. You can protest the methods but don't judge or demonize ICE agents (or police officers, or any other federal agents) for doing their job and following the "rule of law".

While the US does not have a Code of Conduct, we do have a Constitution and Laws. Whether or not something is "unconstitutional" or "illegal" on sticky subjects should go to the courts for judges to decide. Those who disagree with the courts' decisions or disagree with the "rule of law" need to go pound sand.

When due process is ignored, there are no courts deciding. It is just humans being disappeared to somewhere else. That is called human trafficking and is highly illegal. Yes, shoplifting is bad, and stores are doing what they can to stop it, but equating it with human trafficking is just deplorable.

And we used to hold our elected leaders to higher standards - but Gingrinch and later Trump and the arc in between, shattered it - lying about policy, being an unfaithful spouse (looking at you too, Bill Clinton) set us on a downward path of "gotcha" journalism and whataboutism.

Whatever shortcomings any politician had before 2015, Trump has shattered it all. The GOP has ZERO place to complain about any lying, duplicity, obfuscation etc from anyone in the middle or left until the entire stink of MAGA is eradicated from our political discourse.

[Anonymous]

OP, surely you understand that it is and should be illegal for masked thugs who don't identify themselves to grab law-abiding people off the street because they engaged in peaceful protest, or because they look Latino?

[Anonymous]

MAGA trying to think is somehow worse than when they refuse to think. It just hurts to watch them trip over the own feet while trying to remember tobreathe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, surely you understand that it is and should be illegal for masked thugs who don't identify themselves to grab law-abiding people off the street because they engaged in peaceful protest, or because they look Latino?

Of course. Follow the "rule of law".

[Anonymous]

When you have to ask if it’s “reeeeaaaallllyyyy illegal” to mask up and refuse to ID yourself and cowardly snatch people off the street to make a quota, you also forfeit your right to lecture people on what’s immoral or unethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, surely you understand that it is and should be illegal for masked thugs who don't identify themselves to grab law-abiding people off the street because they engaged in peaceful protest, or because they look Latino?

Of course. Follow the "rule of law".

Okay? So when people are saying it is illegal, that's because it is actually illegal, not "merely" immoral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you have to ask if it’s “reeeeaaaallllyyyy illegal” to mask up and refuse to ID yourself and cowardly snatch people off the street to make a quota, you also forfeit your right to lecture people on what’s immoral or unethical.

I'm just making a point that not everything immoral or unethical is illegal. I'm with OP on following the "rule of law".

If something is illegal then yes, it should not be acceptable. If an ICE agent is found guilty of doing something illegal (again, case by case basis and decided by the courts) they should be prosecuted. That's exactly my point about following the "rule of law". That being said...obstruction of justice and assault on a federal agent is also illegal.

[Anonymous]

How will anyone know if these are even actually ICE agents? As it is, there have been at least three cases where they were NOT ICE Agents, that resulted in 2 kidnappings and a rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How will anyone know if these are even actually ICE agents? As it is, there have been at least three cases where they were NOT ICE Agents, that resulted in 2 kidnappings and a rape.

This, unfortunately, isn't isolated to ICE....there have been cases of bad people impersonating UPS drivers, police officers, etc. and committing similar crimes. These people, just like those impersonating ICE, should be prosecuted according to the law.

[Anonymous]

MAGA is the worst of America, hands down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you have to ask if it’s “reeeeaaaallllyyyy illegal” to mask up and refuse to ID yourself and cowardly snatch people off the street to make a quota, you also forfeit your right to lecture people on what’s immoral or unethical.

I'm just making a point that not everything immoral or unethical is illegal. I'm with OP on following the "rule of law".

If something is illegal then yes, it should not be acceptable. If an ICE agent is found guilty of doing something illegal (again, case by case basis and decided by the courts) they should be prosecuted. That's exactly my point about following the "rule of law". That being said...obstruction of justice and assault on a federal agent is also illegal.

You sound confused. You don't wait until a judge finds someone guilty to prosecute them. It's the other way around. You seem to think nobody can call a particular action "illegal" until the courts find a person guilty of that action.

I feel for well meaning ICE agents that don't want to engage in illegal activities and don't feel able to quit their jobs. That is a tough spot to be in. However, there is definitely a culture of "immigrants = bad people with no rights" in that agency.

[Anonymous]

STOP

You are a Trump supporter.

There is nothing you need to say about Illegality or immorality.

The world and the rest of us are laughing at you fools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will anyone know if these are even actually ICE agents? As it is, there have been at least three cases where they were NOT ICE Agents, that resulted in 2 kidnappings and a rape.

This, unfortunately, isn't isolated to ICE....there have been cases of bad people impersonating UPS drivers, police officers, etc. and committing similar crimes. These people, just like those impersonating ICE, should be prosecuted according to the law.

Of course, and ICE “agents” should be required to provide ID. How else would you know if they are real? Law enforcement typically has to *at least* provide a name and badge number when asked because they are PUBLIC SERVANTS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will anyone know if these are even actually ICE agents? As it is, there have been at least three cases where they were NOT ICE Agents, that resulted in 2 kidnappings and a rape.

This, unfortunately, isn't isolated to ICE....there have been cases of bad people impersonating UPS drivers, police officers, etc. and committing similar crimes. These people, just like those impersonating ICE, should be prosecuted according to the law.

Of course, and ICE “agents” should be required to provide ID. How else would you know if they are real? Law enforcement typically has to *at least* provide a name and badge number when asked because they are PUBLIC SERVANTS.

This. Law enforcement ARE AGENTS OF GOVERNMENT. Even your IRS auditor has to show ID and they comb through your financial records with a fine tooth comb.

But for some reason an AGENT OF GOVERNMENT should be able to snatch you off the street in a mask and unmarked car without showing ID or a warrant?

GTFOH. That's ChiCom behavior.