Violin parents - looking for advice

[Anonymous]

My recently turned 13-year-old plays violin at her middle school and in a youth orchestra on the weekends. She appears to be naturally good at this and can get by without practicing much. This has turned into not practicing at all, or a power struggle if we ask her to practice. She's one of three middle schoolers in the group - the rest are in high school - and she is in second violin and seems fine with that.

She did say she wanted a new teacher, so we asked around and her orchestra conductor who was an assistant under Daniel Barenboim said he only takes 7 students and he would take her on, but she would obviously need to step it up. She was not into this teacher option.

I'm at a loss here. It's like she doesn't want to practice but doesn't want to quit. She wanted a new teacher - which I thought would invigorate things - but doesn't want the one we found. She thinks she is playing sports in high school; she is unlikely to make any team beyond freshman so I thought this was a great option for getting involved with something.

FWIW she's going to orchestra camp for the second year in a row - her choice. We are not pushing this on her.

Any suggestions here?

[Anonymous]

OP here - I know nothing about orchestra or music lessons really so not sure the Barenboim thing is relevant! My DH took piano and he is the one who feels she is squandering her talent and opportunities, I'm more like this sounds fun to do through HS and in a community orchestra if she wants when she gets older.

[Anonymous]

She doesn't sound like she's playing at a stratospherically high level, OP, so I don't think either you or your husband should agonize too much about this.

The only thing you might consider for her is continuing violin all 4 years of high school, for college admission purposes. Given that she's already been playing for a few years, is in a youth orchestra, and you haven't mentioned another passionate hobby of hers, this might be a valuable extra-curricular she could list. Therefore, because of that, you do need to find another teacher and push her to practice a little bit, just so that she can stay at a level that will ensure she gets into the next levels in her youth orchestra. School orchestras are very low level, because they deal with kids who don't have private teachers - it's normal she would find that music really easy, even without practice. But depending on your state, the All-State orchestra she can join will require that she enroll in school orchestra. The older the kids become, the more selective the youth and All-State (or All-County, or whatever) orchestra groupings - she needs to understand this. She can't let herself stagnate while other kids her age are practicing diligently, otherwise she's not going to make the cut and all her years of instrumental experience won't show up on her applications. College apps are only interested in what students did in high school. They don't care about middle school.

Levine School of Music is a solid choice. For private studios, I only know the top ones of the DC area (Lea Stern, etc), and she would have to step it up massively to not feel out of place there! Emil Chudnovsky is a high caliber teacher who takes all levels of students, but he puts them through the wringer. Maybe someone will come along with a more middle-of-the-road studio suggestion.

[Anonymous]

Thank you! We are not in DC but appreciate the advice.

I guess my question - what is language to push someone to practice who claims they don't want to or actually doesn't want to? It's a power struggle at this point so I think she thinks if she practices, we win and she loses. That's not the framing I'm going for here but not sure if there is a better way to approach.

[Anonymous]

Have you asked her what she hopes to accomplish by getting a new teacher?

[Anonymous]

Sounds like she wants to play violin for fun and is content at the level she's at. Let her start playing a sport and learning it. You can do things for fun and not to be impressive at them. There's a value to having fun.

[Anonymous]

I played violin.

The teacher you found is not a good match for her - she does not want to work hard enough.

I grew up with a teacher who would get annoyed at me every lesson because she wanted me to practice 1.5 hours a day and due to other obligations I only averaged about 20 min. I was good, but I was not concert violinist material. It was absurd of her to expect me to practice that much.

Can you cut a deal with her that she practice at least fifteen minutes, five times a week?

Regardless, let her continue playing if she wants even if she isn not practicing much. It's fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you! We are not in DC but appreciate the advice.

I guess my question - what is language to push someone to practice who claims they don't want to or actually doesn't want to? It's a power struggle at this point so I think she thinks if she practices, we win and she loses. That's not the framing I'm going for here but not sure if there is a better way to approach.

Various parents have done it different ways. You can pay her to practice, or bribe her in various ways with little treats and gifts. Or you can just say: "from now on, violin is like all your other chores, and I expect 15 min of practice daily. You will not get your usual privileges (money, outings with friends, driving around for stuff, screentime) if you don't do it."

My 15 yo daughter has been playing for more than 10 years, and I just said, this is something we do every day. It needs to become routine, like brushing teeth. So I remind her every day, and she waffles a bit, but she always ends up practicing. Sometimes when she's tired or very busy, it's only a few minutes. Sometimes before auditions and recitals, it's more than an hour, and she does several practices a day. I always make sure to praise the effort, not the achievement, and at the end of every audition or recital, we get a little treat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you asked her what she hopes to accomplish by getting a new teacher?

Yes, she said she felt like she was not getting better. It did seem very child directed - my kid would say I want to play xyz music and they would work on that and whatever she was playing in the youth orchestra.

This is very 7th grade, but one issue with the teacher was it was at her school on Tuesdays after school, which was the day everyone went to Starbucks. So from her perspective she was missing out on a big social thing. The teacher was the same one who teaches the strings at the school part-time.

She is leaving after this year but wants to take my kid on as a private student, but I think it would be over zoom and that is not an option on our end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you! We are not in DC but appreciate the advice.

I guess my question - what is language to push someone to practice who claims they don't want to or actually doesn't want to? It's a power struggle at this point so I think she thinks if she practices, we win and she loses. That's not the framing I'm going for here but not sure if there is a better way to approach.

Various parents have done it different ways. You can pay her to practice, or bribe her in various ways with little treats and gifts. Or you can just say: "from now on, violin is like all your other chores, and I expect 15 min of practice daily. You will not get your usual privileges (money, outings with friends, driving around for stuff, screentime) if you don't do it."

My 15 yo daughter has been playing for more than 10 years, and I just said, this is something we do every day. It needs to become routine, like brushing teeth. So I remind her every day, and she waffles a bit, but she always ends up practicing. Sometimes when she's tired or very busy, it's only a few minutes. Sometimes before auditions and recitals, it's more than an hour, and she does several practices a day. I always make sure to praise the effort, not the achievement, and at the end of every audition or recital, we get a little treat.

We are currently doing option 2 and she gets a treat - boba or mochinut - after every orchestra practice.

But now she complains about practicing or its like a huge eye roll and sigh. But all other signs is she likes doing this.

[Anonymous]

What else is your daughter doing?

My DD doesn’t play violin, but another instrument. If we lose track and don’t limit screens, she will skip practicing. If we say, no more screens or get serious about it over multiple days, even if we don’t remind her, she will practice plenty. She also plays a sport seriously, so she doesn’t have unlimited free time but definitely plenty to squeeze in 10-15 min a day.

We use screens more often than I would like for this. No screens until xyz. I don’t know how long that will last. Maybe until 9th grade. After that, it really is on her how much effort she wants to put into anything extra curricular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I played violin.

The teacher you found is not a good match for her - she does not want to work hard enough.

I grew up with a teacher who would get annoyed at me every lesson because she wanted me to practice 1.5 hours a day and due to other obligations I only averaged about 20 min. I was good, but I was not concert violinist material. It was absurd of her to expect me to practice that much.

Can you cut a deal with her that she practice at least fifteen minutes, five times a week?

Regardless, let her continue playing if she wants even if she isn not practicing much. It's fine.

Agree with this. My teachers growing up were similar. My son’s teacher tries to find fun songs for him to play, along with more traditional lessons. She is probably too nice when he doesn’t practice enough! But he enjoys it and maybe will continue playing for longer than if it were more regimented and strict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What else is your daughter doing?

My DD doesn’t play violin, but another instrument. If we lose track and don’t limit screens, she will skip practicing. If we say, no more screens or get serious about it over multiple days, even if we don’t remind her, she will practice plenty. She also plays a sport seriously, so she doesn’t have unlimited free time but definitely plenty to squeeze in 10-15 min a day.

We use screens more often than I would like for this. No screens until xyz. I don’t know how long that will last. Maybe until 9th grade. After that, it really is on her how much effort she wants to put into anything extra curricular.

OP here - this is helpful. She plays a sport a season through her school so not at a super competitive level but does have days of practice and games. I think the screens are at play over here as well.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP that said practice should be part of the daily routine like other chores and homework. That's my view and I make my kids practice daily, though they definitely complain about it too. I think it's normal to complain about having to practice. Instrument practice is work and most kids would rather do something fun, even if they otherwise enjoy playing their instrument.

If I were you, I'd start requiring her to practice 15 minutes daily (with privileges contingent on it being done or whatever makes sense in your situation)--and especially if you're looking for a teacher to help her improve. I think it is perfectly ok to say this is the rule from now on because dad and I say so. It would be great if she could see the value in it for herself but you're the parent, she's the kid--you can tell her to do things because you think they're important. At some point soon in her life she'll be old enough to make her own decisions about whether to continue or not.

I am sure you can find another teacher that can help her grow without expecting more than she's willing to commit to at this point. Most kids are not super driven and I know there are teachers that can work well with those kids too.

[Anonymous]

I had a serious musician who practiced several hours a day at her age.

The teacher you are considering would likely do things like: assign a piece and break it into various tasks -- spend this much time memorizing the music by reading it over and attempting to play it in your head without the violin; spend this much time doing scales; spend this much time working on a specific technique; spend this much time on the piece you are working on; spend this much time listening to recordings of various artists playing the piece and noticing the differences between the way they interpret the piece, spend this much time learning music theory perhaps by doing a workbook, etc.

This is not something that can be accomplished in fifteen minutes a day. A serious teacher kind of wants music to be a lifestyle.

It's like if your kid was an athlete and they might go to practice, work out on their own, do some stretching, go to the gym to lift sometimes, etc. Not just going to practice but doing a bunch of other things that support that practice. Eventually watching videos of their games -- or musical performances -- and critiquing them, watching others play, etc.

It doesn't sound like your child wants music to be a lifestyle, which is fine, but she's not going to do well with a teacher who does. Have you asked the director of her youth orchestra for a recommendation? He or she likely knows your child a bit, knows her strengths and can recommend someone appropriate.