Best private schools in NYC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Note that a lot of legacy kids who start in K are really bright. I am very skeptical about the methods that schools use to judge kids for K admit. Hunter is the worst - their K evaluation process is garbage and the kids who get in in 7th grade blow those kids away.

But those who graduated from TT schools and are now old enough to have kids are generally pretty bright. Bright people tend to have bright kids. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but overall, the rule applies. They have good genetic makeup, but more importantly, they are surrounded by their parents having intelligent conversations, parents friends who are smart, successful people, parents are focused on education so make sure homework is getting done. It's not just about affording tutors and enrichment. It is day-to-day life. I'm sure I will get pushback on this but it is true. Children of dedicated teachers apply to this theory too and they are not rich.

So though I tend to agree with the theory that the kids who enter later tend to on average likely be brighter because they are getting in based on more meaningful academic metrics, a lot of the lifers are also bright because they come from bright families, and the K-8 education they got at the TT school, though perhaps not super rigorous, is still meaningful.

And having already been at the school, the transition to HS tends to be smoother just because things aren't as new to them - less culture shock. New kids tend to get over that very quickly, but it is still a thing.

So by and large does this mean that in general and on average those who test in will be more academically performant throughout high school and, by extension, have better college outcomes absent the impact of donor status, athletic recruitment and other 'hooks'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that a lot of legacy kids who start in K are really bright. I am very skeptical about the methods that schools use to judge kids for K admit. Hunter is the worst - their K evaluation process is garbage and the kids who get in in 7th grade blow those kids away.

But those who graduated from TT schools and are now old enough to have kids are generally pretty bright. Bright people tend to have bright kids. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but overall, the rule applies. They have good genetic makeup, but more importantly, they are surrounded by their parents having intelligent conversations, parents friends who are smart, successful people, parents are focused on education so make sure homework is getting done. It's not just about affording tutors and enrichment. It is day-to-day life. I'm sure I will get pushback on this but it is true. Children of dedicated teachers apply to this theory too and they are not rich.

So though I tend to agree with the theory that the kids who enter later tend to on average likely be brighter because they are getting in based on more meaningful academic metrics, a lot of the lifers are also bright because they come from bright families, and the K-8 education they got at the TT school, though perhaps not super rigorous, is still meaningful.

And having already been at the school, the transition to HS tends to be smoother just because things aren't as new to them - less culture shock. New kids tend to get over that very quickly, but it is still a thing.

So by and large does this mean that in general and on average those who test in will be more academically performant throughout high school and, by extension, have better college outcomes absent the impact of donor status, athletic recruitment and other 'hooks'?

Did you read what this poster said?

Very bright “survivors” have great outcomes. Very bright 7th grade and 9th grade admits have great outcomes. If you want to rip through the statistics of who comes out #1, it’ll vary class to class.

If you’re a kindergarten applicant and thinking about this now— you have an exhausting journey ahead of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that a lot of legacy kids who start in K are really bright. I am very skeptical about the methods that schools use to judge kids for K admit. Hunter is the worst - their K evaluation process is garbage and the kids who get in in 7th grade blow those kids away.

But those who graduated from TT schools and are now old enough to have kids are generally pretty bright. Bright people tend to have bright kids. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but overall, the rule applies. They have good genetic makeup, but more importantly, they are surrounded by their parents having intelligent conversations, parents friends who are smart, successful people, parents are focused on education so make sure homework is getting done. It's not just about affording tutors and enrichment. It is day-to-day life. I'm sure I will get pushback on this but it is true. Children of dedicated teachers apply to this theory too and they are not rich.

So though I tend to agree with the theory that the kids who enter later tend to on average likely be brighter because they are getting in based on more meaningful academic metrics, a lot of the lifers are also bright because they come from bright families, and the K-8 education they got at the TT school, though perhaps not super rigorous, is still meaningful.

And having already been at the school, the transition to HS tends to be smoother just because things aren't as new to them - less culture shock. New kids tend to get over that very quickly, but it is still a thing.

So by and large does this mean that in general and on average those who test in will be more academically performant throughout high school and, by extension, have better college outcomes absent the impact of donor status, athletic recruitment and other 'hooks'?

Did you read what this poster said?

Very bright “survivors” have great outcomes. Very bright 7th grade and 9th grade admits have great outcomes. If you want to rip through the statistics of who comes out #1, it’ll vary class to class.

If you’re a kindergarten applicant and thinking about this now— you have an exhausting journey ahead of you.

Sorry, my question could have been asked more clearly. What I'm really getting at is the following. Picking on Trinity because it admits the most for high school. Assuming 120 kids in the graduating class and 35% ivy+ matriculation rate this yields 42 admits. Let's say 14 (1/3) are donors, 6 are Prep for Prep, 10 others are athletes or some other hook, this leaves 12 spots left for the remaining 90 students. Two questions:

1) Is this breakdown overly punitive (e.g. the assumed proportion of donors and 'hooked' kids is too high)?
2) If it's not too punitive, how many of those 12 spots go to survivors vs kids who test in during 9th grade?

I understand the numbers will vary by class but surely over many years they average out to a range. Would love to know what folks think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, my question could have been asked more clearly. What I'm really getting at is the following. Picking on Trinity because it admits the most for high school. Assuming 120 kids in the graduating class and 35% ivy+ matriculation rate this yields 42 admits. Let's say 14 (1/3) are donors, 6 are Prep for Prep, 10 others are athletes or some other hook, this leaves 12 spots left for the remaining 90 students. Two questions:

1) Is this breakdown overly punitive (e.g. the assumed proportion of donors and 'hooked' kids is too high)?
2) If it's not too punitive, how many of those 12 spots go to survivors vs kids who test in during 9th grade?

I understand the numbers will vary by class but surely over many years they average out to a range. Would love to know what folks think.

It is difficult to say because the children testing in are as well-resourced and connected as the survivors. Many bright students from TT SS schools looking for a change of scenery and students from private K-8 schools applying. The reality is if your child is unconnected, you will be better off going to SHS for a chance at Ivy+.

[Anonymous]

Collegiate letters out! Did anyone who did *not* send a first choice letter get accepted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the [near] future brings.

Good luck! Note that privates come out first so your kid might get into a private they really like and that influences their mindset when they find out about publics. Be sure to revisit any private they are remotely considering - once you are in you can ask a lot more questions than when you have to be polite and not ruffle feathers during the application process - you are now the buyer.

Also note that you can accept the private and you have to put down a deposit but full tuition isn't committed for a while so you don't have to make an absolute decision in that one week or so between when publics announce and privates require a decision - worst case you lose a deposit but if you end up at public that is a drop in the bucket.

How much is the deposit usually?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the [near] future brings.

Good luck! Note that privates come out first so your kid might get into a private they really like and that influences their mindset when they find out about publics. Be sure to revisit any private they are remotely considering - once you are in you can ask a lot more questions than when you have to be polite and not ruffle feathers during the application process - you are now the buyer.

Also note that you can accept the private and you have to put down a deposit but full tuition isn't committed for a while so you don't have to make an absolute decision in that one week or so between when publics announce and privates require a decision - worst case you lose a deposit but if you end up at public that is a drop in the bucket.

How much is the deposit usually?

Don't you have to sign a contract by the accept deadline? You're not on the hook for the entire year's tuition?

[Anonymous]

Deposit is usually 20%, sometimes 10. The contract generally has an option to cancel and not owe the rest of the tuition as long as it’s done by a certain date (I believe usually around May).

[Anonymous]

I think deposit is $5-10k. I don’t think you are on the hook for full tuition until May 1 or so. Obviously don’t want to throw away that deposit and preferably you can make a final decision in time but worst case if you are switching to public the deposit is nothing compared to your overall savings. Not encouraging but good to know it is an option. Revisits for SHSAT schools are often after the private school response deadline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

Honestly, no. I want to be careful with how I phrase things. I don’t want to discourage anyone from attending, because certain people do thrive there, although i don’t think anyone actually loves trinity. I saw another parent talking about their child entering the upper school and that they’ve had a largely positive experience with the school so far, and that’s great. But being a parent is enormously different than being a student, obviously, and the student experience is extraordinarily intense.

It’s not solely because of the academics - the trinity parent said they’re manageable, and they’re exactly right: they’re just barely manageable. But so many students are miserable trying to manage their academics and extracurriculars. It’s constant stress, and teachers, while top rate, have incredibly high expectations and aren’t the most welcoming. They’re actually strangely cliquish and have clear favorites. All of this is fine: i actually benefited from this and in some sick way, I enjoyed the stress of the academics and always being busy. But most of my friends were capital U unhappy. So was i. At certain points, I probably edged on full-blown depression. I just eked my way through. And the emphasis and pressure to make it look easy is just as important. I stopped going to ad hocs for help at the beginning of sophomore year cause i didn’t want to make it look like i needed help.

You’ll say, as a parent and a fully-matured adult, that this was a stupid thing to do. It was my fault to inflict harm on myself this way. You’re right. It was, and it made my life harder. But I was 15, and the environment made me feel and my friends feel like this was something you needed to do for respect.

I’m not going to get into the social aspects of it. Not gonna talk about the swamp, the partying, homecoming, etc. A lot of it is just par for the course in high school. But there is ABSOLUTELY a social hierarchy at trinity, and even though i graduated more than a decade ago, i still believe it exists. I don’t think trinity cares about changing these things as long as they continue to have the results they have. I also think that, since trinity has such a collection of fabulously wealthy and famous families, everything heightened. You feel the social pressure much more acutely than you would at another school. But again, it just comes with the territory of going to a school like trinity. My best friend left sophomore year to go to choate, which she LOVED fwiw, and there was a hierarchy there, too, however it was far less pronounced, according to her.

My point is the experience of a student and parent are vastly different, and the differences between lower, middle, and upper school are drastic and pronounced. Trinity can actually do damage to you if you let it. But if you manage to make it through, the results can be worth it. Like i said before, I got into an HYP (the same as my sibling), went to a good grad school afterward, and have had a successful career so far. Could i have done that without having a kind of shitty high school experience? I don’t know. But I will say that, deep, deep down, I’d be very concerned with sending my kid to trinity for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

Honestly, no. I want to be careful with how I phrase things. I don’t want to discourage anyone from attending, because certain people do thrive there, although i don’t think anyone actually loves trinity. I saw another parent talking about their child entering the upper school and that they’ve had a largely positive experience with the school so far, and that’s great. But being a parent is enormously different than being a student, obviously, and the student experience is extraordinarily intense.

It’s not solely because of the academics - the trinity parent said they’re manageable, and they’re exactly right: they’re just barely manageable. But so many students are miserable trying to manage their academics and extracurriculars. It’s constant stress, and teachers, while top rate, have incredibly high expectations and aren’t the most welcoming. They’re actually strangely cliquish and have clear favorites. All of this is fine: i actually benefited from this and in some sick way, I enjoyed the stress of the academics and always being busy. But most of my friends were capital U unhappy. So was i. At certain points, I probably edged on full-blown depression. I just eked my way through. And the emphasis and pressure to make it look easy is just as important. I stopped going to ad hocs for help at the beginning of sophomore year cause i didn’t want to make it look like i needed help.

You’ll say, as a parent and a fully-matured adult, that this was a stupid thing to do. It was my fault to inflict harm on myself this way. You’re right. It was, and it made my life harder. But I was 15, and the environment made me feel and my friends feel like this was something you needed to do for respect.

I’m not going to get into the social aspects of it. Not gonna talk about the swamp, the partying, homecoming, etc. A lot of it is just par for the course in high school. But there is ABSOLUTELY a social hierarchy at trinity, and even though i graduated more than a decade ago, i still believe it exists. I don’t think trinity cares about changing these things as long as they continue to have the results they have. I also think that, since trinity has such a collection of fabulously wealthy and famous families, everything heightened. You feel the social pressure much more acutely than you would at another school. But again, it just comes with the territory of going to a school like trinity. My best friend left sophomore year to go to choate, which she LOVED fwiw, and there was a hierarchy there, too, however it was far less pronounced, according to her.

My point is the experience of a student and parent are vastly different, and the differences between lower, middle, and upper school are drastic and pronounced. Trinity can actually do damage to you if you let it. But if you manage to make it through, the results can be worth it. Like i said before, I got into an HYP (the same as my sibling), went to a good grad school afterward, and have had a successful career so far. Could i have done that without having a kind of shitty high school experience? I don’t know. But I will say that, deep, deep down, I’d be very concerned with sending my kid to trinity for high school.

Apologies for poor writing - I’m tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

Honestly, no. I want to be careful with how I phrase things. I don’t want to discourage anyone from attending, because certain people do thrive there, although i don’t think anyone actually loves trinity. I saw another parent talking about their child entering the upper school and that they’ve had a largely positive experience with the school so far, and that’s great. But being a parent is enormously different than being a student, obviously, and the student experience is extraordinarily intense.

It’s not solely because of the academics - the trinity parent said they’re manageable, and they’re exactly right: they’re just barely manageable. But so many students are miserable trying to manage their academics and extracurriculars. It’s constant stress, and teachers, while top rate, have incredibly high expectations and aren’t the most welcoming. They’re actually strangely cliquish and have clear favorites. All of this is fine: i actually benefited from this and in some sick way, I enjoyed the stress of the academics and always being busy. But most of my friends were capital U unhappy. So was i. At certain points, I probably edged on full-blown depression. I just eked my way through. And the emphasis and pressure to make it look easy is just as important. I stopped going to ad hocs for help at the beginning of sophomore year cause i didn’t want to make it look like i needed help.

You’ll say, as a parent and a fully-matured adult, that this was a stupid thing to do. It was my fault to inflict harm on myself this way. You’re right. It was, and it made my life harder. But I was 15, and the environment made me feel and my friends feel like this was something you needed to do for respect.

I’m not going to get into the social aspects of it. Not gonna talk about the swamp, the partying, homecoming, etc. A lot of it is just par for the course in high school. But there is ABSOLUTELY a social hierarchy at trinity, and even though i graduated more than a decade ago, i still believe it exists. I don’t think trinity cares about changing these things as long as they continue to have the results they have. I also think that, since trinity has such a collection of fabulously wealthy and famous families, everything heightened. You feel the social pressure much more acutely than you would at another school. But again, it just comes with the territory of going to a school like trinity. My best friend left sophomore year to go to choate, which she LOVED fwiw, and there was a hierarchy there, too, however it was far less pronounced, according to her.

My point is the experience of a student and parent are vastly different, and the differences between lower, middle, and upper school are drastic and pronounced. Trinity can actually do damage to you if you let it. But if you manage to make it through, the results can be worth it. Like i said before, I got into an HYP (the same as my sibling), went to a good grad school afterward, and have had a successful career so far. Could i have done that without having a kind of shitty high school experience? I don’t know. But I will say that, deep, deep down, I’d be very concerned with sending my kid to trinity for high school.

Apologies for poor writing - I’m tired.

Feels balanced and thoughtful. Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone think any other TT would be any different in terms of demands and stress? It seems baked into any of these places

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think any other TT would be any different in terms of demands and stress? It seems baked into any of these places

That's what I was thinking too. With Trinity here and very negative Brearley feedback in the other thread, is there still a happy place with highly rigorous academics (and we ruled out Dalton for other reasons)? I do hear that Horace Mann really made an effort to balance the academic and the social in high school (and also meaningfully diversified the student body) in recent years, but would love to get some current parent feedback.

[Anonymous]

You don't actually *have* to go for TT, in fact there are lots of reasons to think that unless your kid is an absolute academic rock star their college prospects might even be better at a 2T where they could distinguish themselves a bit more.

Lots of people do the whole Gaston "that makes her the best, and don't I deserve the best?" thing with schools and don't necessarily stop to consider whether it's actually a good match.

Also very importantly it'll give them the time to pursue extracurriculars at a high level, which is not only a resume booster but also lets them have a little more balance in their lives (at least if they have some extracurriculars they enjoy).