Best private schools in NYC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ironically, we largely had the opposite experience at Bronx Science and Stuy. The schools are huge so there are all types including the type you described, so not disagreeing with you and definitely not saying you are wrong. But we also found that both skewed way too heavily towards really socially awkward kids who were making strange jokes and who as an employer I would not stick within a mile of a client (I know they are only in HS but you get my point). My kid, who is far from the coolest kid out there but has very normal, mainstream interests and feels relatively comfortable interacting with a wide variety of people, looked at us and said "please don't make me go here". And this was at the accepted student event for one of them (we had had largely the same experience at the open houses for both schools). My kid was coming from a fairly diverse public middle school so it is not like they were totally sheltered or living in an UMC white bubble their whole life.

Heh, we are having the opposite 'problem' - I also have a very "normal", well-adjusted, and socially comfortable child at a diverse public, and they *loved* Bx Sci (Stuy felt a little less appealing, and maybe more awkward kids, yes). Now we, the parents, think that maybe the right private high school would align better , but it will be a long conversation should they get in. Did your kid end up at Trinity or some other school?

Private but not Trinity. Pained me to spend the money but I could see how much happier they would be elsewhere and wanted HS to be a pleasant experience. Unclear if outcomes will be better from private than if they had gone to SHSAT but so far they are having a great HS experience and doing very well academically and socially so I guess it is worth the money. We are financially in a position where we could afford it within reason - definitely not easy but not making us miserable either. If we were less comfortable financially (again, we are far from rich by NYC standards) I might have told them to deal with it and go public.

In addition to the unhappiness at the open house, the dislike of the public was compounded by the 4-5 kids of the same gender who they knew going there from local public schools, who would normally have been their "go to" friends starting out, were kids they really didn't like for various reasons (reasons which I totally understood) - and again, my kid is generally really easy going, gets along with almost everyone from a wide variety of backgrounds. So it was just a quirk of being the wrong kids in the wrong year. The school was big enough that I'm sure they would have found their people through activities or whatever else, but there were just too many others who they didn't want to be surrounded by in class all day.

And not saying that every kid at their private is their best friend. Plenty of kids they don't really like. But the vast majority are great and they have an excellent friend group. We were very careful in choosing privates - visited a ton, spoke to lots of people, and focused a lot on fit, often over "status." We tried very hard to meet kids who were already there and likely continuing on to get a sense of who their classmates would be.

[Anonymous]

Thanks! I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the [near] future brings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks! I suppose we will just have to wait and see what the [near] future brings.

Good luck! Note that privates come out first so your kid might get into a private they really like and that influences their mindset when they find out about publics. Be sure to revisit any private they are remotely considering - once you are in you can ask a lot more questions than when you have to be polite and not ruffle feathers during the application process - you are now the buyer.

Also note that you can accept the private and you have to put down a deposit but full tuition isn't committed for a while so you don't have to make an absolute decision in that one week or so between when publics announce and privates require a decision - worst case you lose a deposit but if you end up at public that is a drop in the bucket.

[Anonymous]

That’s your flex???! 😂😂
Loser!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a bored angry housewife.

No. I FIREd and am bored on a flight to HK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Good luck! Note that privates come out first so your kid might get into a private they really like and that influences their mindset when they find out about publics. Be sure to revisit any private they are remotely considering - once you are in you can ask a lot more questions than when you have to be polite and not ruffle feathers during the application process - you are now the buyer.

Also note that you can accept the private and you have to put down a deposit but full tuition isn't committed for a while so you don't have to make an absolute decision in that one week or so between when publics announce and privates require a decision - worst case you lose a deposit but if you end up at public that is a drop in the bucket.

Thank you, this is all helpful. I am impressed you were able to meet your child's prospective classmates - is that something that the schools accommodate for or did you have to seek them out on your own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Good luck! Note that privates come out first so your kid might get into a private they really like and that influences their mindset when they find out about publics. Be sure to revisit any private they are remotely considering - once you are in you can ask a lot more questions than when you have to be polite and not ruffle feathers during the application process - you are now the buyer.

Also note that you can accept the private and you have to put down a deposit but full tuition isn't committed for a while so you don't have to make an absolute decision in that one week or so between when publics announce and privates require a decision - worst case you lose a deposit but if you end up at public that is a drop in the bucket.

Thank you, this is all helpful. I am impressed you were able to meet your child's prospective classmates - is that something that the schools accommodate for or did you have to seek them out on your own?

We didn't meet many. But we asked around and part of it was honestly dumb luck. My kid knew one kid at one of the schools they were accepted to and worked through that. At another school we knew a kid who was a year ahead so met kids in that class - not a guarantee but we hoped for the best. And we knew a few kids who were friends of friends who were accepted and definitely going to one school so spent time with them - one of them ended up becoming one of my kid's closest friends.

After my child was accepted we had specific questions about specific parts of different schools and we specifically reached out to either people we already sort of knew at the schools (we were not well connected at any school) or at one school asked admissions to connect us with people who could answer the questions. Again - you are now the buyer so within reason (and being respectful of other people's time), ask away if it is truly important to you. When applying you don't want to rock the boat so might hold back on some questions. Now it is your turn. Very different from when you visit public schools where you are free to say whatever you want (and unfortunately, we hated so many of the public school tours where people went on and on with absolutely ridiculous questions, though unfortunately, this also sometimes happened at privates, which likely didn't bode well for the applicant getting in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s your flex???! 😂😂
Loser!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a bored angry housewife.

No. I FIREd and am bored on a flight to HK

Who said I’m trying to flex? What’s wrong with retiring early? What “should” I be doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To add to my previous post (about the perceived advantage of "one-sided" candidates) - there is more and more research suggesting that early "one-sidedness" does not predict success later in life. Once you look at real high achievers (e.g. Nobel prize winners or elite athletes), you will see that a disproportionate number of them stayed "well rounded" for longer than their peers.

From a recent article in the Economist (Why child prodigies rarely become elite performers):

"The adult superstars also had a reliably different approach to their fields from that of the child prodigies, in that they seemed to maintain interests besides the one in which they eventually became elite... Nobel-prizewinning scientists were less likely to have won academic scholarships than those nominated for a Nobel who did not win. They also took longer to reach senior academic positions, had less impressive early publication records, and maintained interest in fields beyond that for which they won their prize."

It is yet to be seen whether "well-roundedness" will overtake "one-sidedness" in college admission preferences.

The problem with kid prodigies (I'm the mom to one) is when they are not challenged consistently. They don't learn grit. The biggest predictor of success isn't Smarts (though it CAN help), its a love of learning and a growth mindset. Its why finding schools that can support that is so huge and so hard.

[Anonymous]

My daughter had a very easy time at school, so we had her start taking violin at an extremely rigorous music school with an extremely demanding teacher and suitably lofty practice expectations.

She did not end up pursuing violin as an extracurricular when she got older - she’s very good and could probably have gotten into LaGuardia or a decent conservatory but she never really had a passion it - but she still has that work ethic for other stuff (and still has a very accurate musical ear).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To add to my previous post (about the perceived advantage of "one-sided" candidates) - there is more and more research suggesting that early "one-sidedness" does not predict success later in life. Once you look at real high achievers (e.g. Nobel prize winners or elite athletes), you will see that a disproportionate number of them stayed "well rounded" for longer than their peers.

From a recent article in the Economist (Why child prodigies rarely become elite performers):

"The adult superstars also had a reliably different approach to their fields from that of the child prodigies, in that they seemed to maintain interests besides the one in which they eventually became elite... Nobel-prizewinning scientists were less likely to have won academic scholarships than those nominated for a Nobel who did not win. They also took longer to reach senior academic positions, had less impressive early publication records, and maintained interest in fields beyond that for which they won their prize."

It is yet to be seen whether "well-roundedness" will overtake "one-sidedness" in college admission preferences.

The problem with kid prodigies (I'm the mom to one) is when they are not challenged consistently. They don't learn grit. The biggest predictor of success isn't Smarts (though it CAN help), its a love of learning and a growth mindset. Its why finding schools that can support that is so huge and so hard.

Yes, exactly. I have a little genius at home — can work at HS level since 2nd grade — but God forbid she encounter something that is hard for her. She has absolutely no grit. Never had to learn stuff and now doesn’t know how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter had a very easy time at school, so we had her start taking violin at an extremely rigorous music school with an extremely demanding teacher and suitably lofty practice expectations.

She did not end up pursuing violin as an extracurricular when she got older - she’s very good and could probably have gotten into LaGuardia or a decent conservatory but she never really had a passion it - but she still has that work ethic for other stuff (and still has a very accurate musical ear).

I’m doing exactly the same — using rigorous classical music instruction to teach my coasting child hard work. It’s not her passion but nothing else she’s tried requires her to work this hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

Current parent. Lower school is warm and foundational skill building. Middle school is not slow by any stretch— my child has read and analyzed texts that I didn’t read until high school. In several languages.

New 9th grade admits are great test takers because they’ve had to study for the ISEE. But they don’t displace the kids at the top of the “survivors.” Kids getting straight As in middle school (which trust me, is not everyone) keep swimming and the pool just gets deeper. And many of those 9th grade kids come in with their own legacy status.

It seems like many discount Trinity’s lower school (and in this post, even middle) because of its kindness towards siblings/legacy. But many schools have a favorable process for connected families without the gossiped assumption that those are going to end up being the “dumb” kids on graduation day. These aren’t sour grapes (we are not a connected family), but the kids around us who are— they are far from stupid. I don’t really get it. Why aren’t the same questions raised about “survivors” vs 9th grade admits at say, Brearley or Collegiate? Genuinely curious as someone not from this city/world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that we may have the good fortune of receiving offers from Trinity and Dalton for kindergarten. Daughter is bright and loves school. Seems to have an emerging interest in STEM, but she is 4, who knows where she will go as she gets older. Logistically, both schools are convenient to us.

Would appreciate the group's opinions. The prior posts have been helpful to us - any fresh comments appreciated.

I’m actually a trinity grad with family currently at dalton. Recently had family make the choice between trinity and dalton. Chose Dalton in the end.

There’s a weird consensus among certain parents that Dalton STEM is slightly weaker than other TT’s, which I don’t agree with, but who knows?

I always think that if i could go back, I would have chosen dalton for myself, but that’s only because I tend to do better with less supervision and more academic freedom. Family there now is in Little Dalton and they absolutely adore it. I can give more specifics if you’re curious.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ll say quickly that I wasn’t ‘happy’ at Trinity (i was a lifer), and i think that was true for a lot of us. But i wasn’t necessarily unhappy either. I did get a great education and went on to a good college, though, which was the point, i guess.

Really helpful, thanks so much! Any specifics you can share about their experience at Little Dalton would be much appreciated.

Sure!

So there were many reasons why dalton was ultimately chosen and why it’s so beloved now. I’ll list a few good and a couple bad.

First is one small deciding factor: the amount of care dalton put in once they were admitted. The acceptance letter they wrote was truly wonderful, which is a small, but pretty telling, expression of the care they put into choosing the kindergarten class. It was more than a page long and included remarkable insights into our kiddo. TBH, we sort of expected to get into trinity due to multi-generational legacy, etc., but they displayed no enthusiasm or genuine interest, which is fine. Again, when you’re applying, the schools keep a safe distance from parents. Once you’re admitted, though, dalton instantly made an effort to create a sense of community which trinity neglected. Is this the most important thing? Of course not. But it does make a bit of difference when you’re trying to decide between schools like these.

Second, when we did the visit, we loved Little Dalton’s physical space. It’s a special place. Lots of nooks and crannies, hidden hallways, a surprisingly large gym, tons of classrooms, and a sense of joyous, albeit organized, chaos in which a kid can thrive. It feels fun! Big Dalton also holds regular events for Little Dalton, which are lovely, and the older students host the younger ones - not entirely uncommon at other schools, but we like what dalton does, international day, etc. We love house system, too.

Third, their learning philosophy and the structure of their courses is more conducive to learning for youth imo. The fluidity between classes helps: ours is an advanced reader; they got to move up groups in order to stay challenged beginning in K, and the staff were wonderful in encouraging them to progress with their weekly library book all through k. The teachers are absolutely exceptional; ours still exchanges letters to his K teacher, and it’s such a nice little thing.

Fourth, the community is pretty wonderful. Parents are as involved as they want to be: there’s no pressure to be a joiner, but there certainly are more and less involved people. More than that, though, we’ve noticed that there’s an extreme lack of snootiness despite the caliber of some of the parents we’ve met. Most everyone, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been lovely, as are the kids. At Trinity, this has not always been the case, and this dates back to my dad’s days there.

Fifth, fin aid is generous, all things considered. We’re full-pay, but for tons of students and families we’re close with now, dalton has been exceedingly good at ensuring that admitted kids could attend regardless of need. One of the things we loved most about it was how they made it seem that if your child was admitted, it was for a good reason and they truly want you to be able to go.

There are downsides to dalton. For example, afterschool activities fill up FAST. The signup goes up, and the spots for certain classes go in, like, two minutes. It took us 2x to get STEAM and chess (dalton chess is extremely competitive though), and 3x to get tennis. Again, at dalton as anywhere, rich kids will have an advantage in certain things. But we do believe that Dalton puts in sincere effort to make things as fair as possible.

Most importantly, the kiddo loves it there. Still hates getting going in the morning, but by the time they get to school, they’re off to the races, and when they come home, they’re full of stories about things they’ve learned, etc. There’s a lot more, but that’s enough for now. We just love dalton. Like I said above, it’ll be great for some people, not so great for others, but for us, it’s a perfect fit. And I won’t taint your judgment with my memories as a trinity survivor, but there were lots of lows and a few highs…

Could you say more about what it was like as a Trinity survivor? The lower school seems so happy

The lower school is totally fine. I have very happy memories through fifth grade or so. Around seventh grade, the pressure starts to pick up. Then it becomes unrelenting. It gets truly bad, and the competition is so extreme.

I want to mention something quickly: everyone seems to think that purely rich kids get into ivies, that they’re unqualified and that they inflate the number of acceptances to ivy+ schools. 1) That’s not (entirely) true. Occasionally it is - i have some excellent examples from families you’ve definitely heard. But so many of the VERY rich kids/nepobabies did extraordinarily well in school and deserved to get into the schools they did. 2) In my year, around 40% went ivy+. The vast majority of us did not have our names on campus buildings or the NYPL or have parents on the nightly news, etc.

I’m pretty definitively not a genius, so I had to work nonstop from age 13-graduation to ensure that I’d get into a good college. The stress at times could be overwhelming, and there were moments of pretty profound darkness and failure. It didn’t help that my sibling, who very much is a genius, breezed through school like it was a sunday brunch. But, as so many survivors point out, it did make college much, much more tolerable, and I don’t think I could’ve gotten into the colleges i did had i gone somewhere else.

For me, I’m pretty social, so that aspect of the school was never a problem. But there are definitely people who thrive in trinity’s social environment. Others sink. Deep. There are definitely issues with bullying along class (sometimes racial) lines, which i was lucky to avoid, and there are the usual high school things like hotness rankings and some grosser stuff which i won’t go into here. Class and social cache were quite important to life at trinity though. I’m not sure how I avoided the worst of it.

There’s also a trinity bubble. You can literally go your whole school life socializing only with trinity kids, and that can leave you with a pretty warped sense of reality. I certainly suffered it a bit I’m afraid to say. But I was also so busy that my social life mostly consisted of doing things related to EC interests or schoolwork.

There are definitely good things though. I’m still friends with a ton of my fellow survivors - they’re my best and truest friends, actually. I wound up at an HYP, and after that I went to a good grad school. A lot of my current success I have to say I can attribute to some of the ethic Trinity dragged out of me, and I’ve benefited from the networks all the schools afforded me. Still, if i could do it all over again, i think i would have gone to dalton. I actually talked to my mom (a spence grad) about it recently and she agreed. My dad went to trinity, but transferred to exeter b/c he stopped enjoying it and I think he would have loved if I’d gone there.

Oh, well… next life.

Do you think things have changed at Trinity since you were there? Lower School and early years of Middle School seem quite slow though the environment is certainly very warm and welcoming for students. Have heard that the ramp up to High School is intense and new admits in 9th grade for High School overwhelmingly dominate academically. Did the surveyors who weren't from donor families, URM or recruited athletes in your class do well with college admissions? I imagine the admit rate for that cohort would be well below the 40% that's often ascribed to the overall class.

Current parent. Lower school is warm and foundational skill building. Middle school is not slow by any stretch— my child has read and analyzed texts that I didn’t read until high school. In several languages.

New 9th grade admits are great test takers because they’ve had to study for the ISEE. But they don’t displace the kids at the top of the “survivors.” Kids getting straight As in middle school (which trust me, is not everyone) keep swimming and the pool just gets deeper. And many of those 9th grade kids come in with their own legacy status.

It seems like many discount Trinity’s lower school (and in this post, even middle) because of its kindness towards siblings/legacy. But many schools have a favorable process for connected families without the gossiped assumption that those are going to end up being the “dumb” kids on graduation day. These aren’t sour grapes (we are not a connected family), but the kids around us who are— they are far from stupid. I don’t really get it. Why aren’t the same questions raised about “survivors” vs 9th grade admits at say, Brearley or Collegiate? Genuinely curious as someone not from this city/world.

Just have heard anecdotally that new admits in 9th grade are typically all exceptional in some way (Julliard Pre-College, top of their Prep for Prep, cohort, top of their class at their prior G&T or accelerated school, etc) which make them better students / more intense on average at that point than the survivors who came up through a more gentle Lower School and Middle School experience. This is somewhat balanced out by survivor families having more resources to do tutoring when that time comes. Curious if that's been your experience or what you've seen.

[Anonymous]

Note that a lot of legacy kids who start in K are really bright. I am very skeptical about the methods that schools use to judge kids for K admit. Hunter is the worst - their K evaluation process is garbage and the kids who get in in 7th grade blow those kids away.

But those who graduated from TT schools and are now old enough to have kids are generally pretty bright. Bright people tend to have bright kids. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but overall, the rule applies. They have good genetic makeup, but more importantly, they are surrounded by their parents having intelligent conversations, parents friends who are smart, successful people, parents are focused on education so make sure homework is getting done. It's not just about affording tutors and enrichment. It is day-to-day life. I'm sure I will get pushback on this but it is true. Children of dedicated teachers apply to this theory too and they are not rich.

So though I tend to agree with the theory that the kids who enter later tend to on average likely be brighter because they are getting in based on more meaningful academic metrics, a lot of the lifers are also bright because they come from bright families, and the K-8 education they got at the TT school, though perhaps not super rigorous, is still meaningful.

And having already been at the school, the transition to HS tends to be smoother just because things aren't as new to them - less culture shock. New kids tend to get over that very quickly, but it is still a thing.