Brother and SIL's parenting bordering or actual abuse

[Anonymous]

Brother is 40, SIL is 33. Kids are 3 (typical) and 5 almost 6 (mild autism and adhd).

I don't know when to continue saying something, when to cut ties, when to try to contact someone else.

They use spanking but at very high frequency and with a lot of anger. They take away comfort objects (favorite stuffed animal/lovey, favorite blanket) as punishment.

They have no real relationship woth their kids and things are just completely wild over there. Like SIL FaceTimed me the other day and she had to put the phone down three times because the kids are going at each other or acting extremely threatened about everything. SIL said this is what it's always like.

They know I'm against spanking and it's not okay in my house (it's important to me that kids feel safe here). They know I used a lot of trust and relationship/respect to parent my kids. They seem like they don't really care about their children as autonomous people nor that ideally parents should be teaching their kids all sorts of things.

I've tried making a few suggestions but without a relationship with your kids cooperation and listening is a much harder battle.

Thoughts? Seeing what's happening there stresses me but I feel obligated to my niece and nephew in a way that just distancing from them further feels tough. We don't see them a lot. They say they don't go very many places because it's so hard because of their kids behavior.

FWIW my niece with mild autism does fine at school and the authorities have told brother & SIL NOT to spank her as that's really detrimental especially in niece's case.

[Anonymous]

I have a dc with mild autism, and things were really difficult at that age. What we needed ( and didn’t get) was ABA training. Kids with autism or ADHD need so many more repetitions to learn. The parents clearly need better skills. Can they afford ABA? Are there any barriers to therapy that you could remove?

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by a real relationship with their kids? Their kids are 3 and 5.

What authorities told them not to spank?

I don’t spank my children but your way of describing this is very weird.

[Anonymous]

It's because the parents also have mental health disorders. This what abuse looks like, OP. Impaired adults attempting to parent impaired children. And by impaired, they could have high IQs, be successful professionals, etc. But they're emotionally stunted and overwhelmed.

My son with ADHD and autism was very difficult when he was younger (and only tolerable in his preteens and teens because he was on meds). We had to completely overhaul our parenting, but there was still a lot of stress in the house, even without yelling or hitting...

If you think your stress is bad, think how badly the members of that household are stressed out.

You need to a come to Jesus moment. Sit them down, tell them they're abusing their kids, and that they need professional help with autism psychologists and therapists, and possibly also meds for ADHD. And that they themselves would benefit from parenting classes for children with special needs, and possibly therapy for themselves as well. That the ultimate goal of parenting is to not add on more trauma, but to raise a child who is relatively functional, with the least amount of conflict.

[Anonymous]

Do you think spanking is enough to warrant physical abuse? If not, mind your business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a dc with mild autism, and things were really difficult at that age. What we needed ( and didn’t get) was ABA training. Kids with autism or ADHD need so many more repetitions to learn. The parents clearly need better skills. Can they afford ABA? Are there any barriers to therapy that you could remove?

Thanks, that's an idea to maybe give them attendance at a class or find a group to suggest. They have some extra money but spend a lot on travel. They say a lot that therapy is too expensive - speech, psychologist for them, etc. They don't seem to want to see that other people have to develop skills and instead just think that other kids are good and theirs are bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by a real relationship with their kids? Their kids are 3 and 5.

What authorities told them not to spank?

I don’t spank my children but your way of describing this is very weird.

I mean like they don't seem like they love their kids or that they don't seem to see their kids as unique people with their own personalities and strengths challenges etc. I'm not sure how to describe it.

The people who assessed the child and the teachers/principal of the school both told them that spanking is very detrimental.

My dad used to whail on my brother and I think he's doing that and it is a little triggering for me to know that he is repeating all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by a real relationship with their kids? Their kids are 3 and 5.

What authorities told them not to spank?

I don’t spank my children but your way of describing this is very weird.

I mean like they don't seem like they love their kids or that they don't seem to see their kids as unique people with their own personalities and strengths challenges etc. I'm not sure how to describe it.

The people who assessed the child and the teachers/principal of the school both told them that spanking is very detrimental.

My dad used to whail on my brother and I think he's doing that and it is a little triggering for me to know that he is repeating all of that.

Unless you suspect actual physical abuse, stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because the parents also have mental health disorders. This what abuse looks like, OP. Impaired adults attempting to parent impaired children. And by impaired, they could have high IQs, be successful professionals, etc. But they're emotionally stunted and overwhelmed.

My son with ADHD and autism was very difficult when he was younger (and only tolerable in his preteens and teens because he was on meds). We had to completely overhaul our parenting, but there was still a lot of stress in the house, even without yelling or hitting...

If you think your stress is bad, think how badly the members of that household are stressed out.

You need to a come to Jesus moment. Sit them down, tell them they're abusing their kids, and that they need professional help with autism psychologists and therapists, and possibly also meds for ADHD. And that they themselves would benefit from parenting classes for children with special needs, and possibly therapy for themselves as well. That the ultimate goal of parenting is to not add on more trauma, but to raise a child who is relatively functional, with the least amount of conflict.

This is what I've been thinking of doing. That they are harming and need help. They know I did a lot of therapy myself, they agree that our parents did a lot of damage, but they are also practicing pretty extreme religion that believes non-Christian psychologists are dangerous to their faith.

Thanks for how you've worded this I appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think spanking is enough to warrant physical abuse? If not, mind your business.

I don't know because I think a lot of spanking is physical abuse and that a lot of parents use abusive parenting methods all the time but no one stops it. I think the terror and parents yelling as loud as they can and acting aggressively is scaring the kids a lot (it scared me the one time I saw my brother do it). Then they get spanked hard and then there's no love or care coming through either. But not that it's at the level that the kids would be removed i don't think because food clothes shelter is being met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the parents also have mental health disorders. This what abuse looks like, OP. Impaired adults attempting to parent impaired children. And by impaired, they could have high IQs, be successful professionals, etc. But they're emotionally stunted and overwhelmed.

My son with ADHD and autism was very difficult when he was younger (and only tolerable in his preteens and teens because he was on meds). We had to completely overhaul our parenting, but there was still a lot of stress in the house, even without yelling or hitting...

If you think your stress is bad, think how badly the members of that household are stressed out.

You need to a come to Jesus moment. Sit them down, tell them they're abusing their kids, and that they need professional help with autism psychologists and therapists, and possibly also meds for ADHD. And that they themselves would benefit from parenting classes for children with special needs, and possibly therapy for themselves as well. That the ultimate goal of parenting is to not add on more trauma, but to raise a child who is relatively functional, with the least amount of conflict.

This is what I've been thinking of doing. That they are harming and need help. They know I did a lot of therapy myself, they agree that our parents did a lot of damage, but they are also practicing pretty extreme religion that believes non-Christian psychologists are dangerous to their faith.

Thanks for how you've worded this I appreciate it.

Let me guess they are crazy Trumpers too. Yikes.

[Anonymous]

What do you want to do about it? Call CPS? Are you willing to take the kids if they go into foster care? Probably not.

Want to help? Offer to pay for and take the child to therapies. Offer to babysit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by a real relationship with their kids? Their kids are 3 and 5.

What authorities told them not to spank?

I don’t spank my children but your way of describing this is very weird.

I mean like they don't seem like they love their kids or that they don't seem to see their kids as unique people with their own personalities and strengths challenges etc. I'm not sure how to describe it.

The people who assessed the child and the teachers/principal of the school both told them that spanking is very detrimental.

My dad used to whail on my brother and I think he's doing that and it is a little triggering for me to know that he is repeating all of that.

Unless you suspect actual physical abuse, stay out of it.

That IS actual physical abuse, wth?!

[Anonymous]

I’m someone who spanked my kids occasionally when they were younger, and that got me flamed on here. I know that most parents on this board disagree with it, but it was effective with my kids and they’re super successful and going to top colleges, etc. We have a great relationship and all that.

That said, I definitely believe very strongly that there is a right way to use spanking and many wrong ways to use it that can be harmful. It sounds like they may be using it in a harmful way. The problem is, from your perspective, you are never going to convince them to change if you are blanket-opposed to any form of physical correction that they might use. The only hope here to affect change would be with something along the lines of my perspective that there is an effective And calm to do it that does not threaten a kids, basic security, and of course there is a wrong way.

Typos are due to voice dictation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the parents also have mental health disorders. This what abuse looks like, OP. Impaired adults attempting to parent impaired children. And by impaired, they could have high IQs, be successful professionals, etc. But they're emotionally stunted and overwhelmed.

My son with ADHD and autism was very difficult when he was younger (and only tolerable in his preteens and teens because he was on meds). We had to completely overhaul our parenting, but there was still a lot of stress in the house, even without yelling or hitting...

If you think your stress is bad, think how badly the members of that household are stressed out.

You need to a come to Jesus moment. Sit them down, tell them they're abusing their kids, and that they need professional help with autism psychologists and therapists, and possibly also meds for ADHD. And that they themselves would benefit from parenting classes for children with special needs, and possibly therapy for themselves as well. That the ultimate goal of parenting is to not add on more trauma, but to raise a child who is relatively functional, with the least amount of conflict.

This is what I've been thinking of doing. That they are harming and need help. They know I did a lot of therapy myself, they agree that our parents did a lot of damage, but they are also practicing pretty extreme religion that believes non-Christian psychologists are dangerous to their faith.

Thanks for how you've worded this I appreciate it.

OP, your brother and SIL are not the types who are going to respond positively to you coming in there, telling them they're abusive and harming their children, that they need therapy and parenting classes. They will.probably react extremely negatively and potentially even cut you off. This will cause them to dog their heels in even more.