That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The NYDN piece comparing a similar case makes this sentencing even more disgusting, if that is possible:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-brock-turner-cory-batey-show-race-affects-sentencing-article-1.2664945

Except Brock Turner did not carry an unconscious woman anywhere. And he didn't rape the woman or videotape the act. Nor was he convicted of rape.

The devil is in these little details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he started experimenting with alcohol/drugs the spring of his Senior year of HS and this incident with Emily Doe occurred in January of his freshman year of college (he was a 19 year old freshman, she was a 22 year old college grad with a FT job and a boyfriend). I'm still going to view this guy as a relative newbie to drinking/partying and specifically college parties - and women. He probably didn't have a great deal of experience being at drinking parties with women...

To have the freakin' Vice President of the United States voice an opinion about this is pretty amazing. And to have Barbara Boxer applaud the victim for being brave enough to "come forward"...assuming that you can call sleeping it off in the hospital, waking up with no memory of how you got there and no clue as to what happened to you "coming forward". Would the victim have gone through the rape kit and the crime photography of naked body over being groped/fingered by some drunken hookup? I know that I sure as hell wouldn't.

The only reason that this got as far as it did is because she blacked out. She was terrified of wth may have happened to her...because she didn't know. I feel bad for her. And I am disgusted on her behalf that Brock touched her passed out body the way he did. He had no right to do that.

It all seems like a bit of a witch hunt to me...I actually find myself feeling bad for BOTH of these young people. They have both lost so much...

Well she did expose in her letter that what they did to her unconscious body in the hospital was far worse than what Brock Turner did to her. That issue needs to be swept under the rug.

[Anonymous]

His own letter showed a lot more personal responsibility than Emily Doe's letter did. He's now a convicted criminal on the sex offender registry, she's officially the wounded victim who is waiting for him to pay her back some day. Brock's life has turned into a living nightmare. He never wants to drink again. Ever. He has lost everything over this. Things went from being fun to ruined in a night. Quite literally. He made a horrible, terrible mistake that has taken away everything that he has worked for. He is remorseful for it. If he could take back everything that he did that night. If he could unmeet Emily Doe - he would do it.

His parents and friends are still reeling from what has happened to this promising young man. How can someone so smart and funny and carefree and capable do something so stupid and hurtful? Not just to Emily Doe but to himself. Why did this happen? Why?

The more I read about this case the more I understand the relatively light sentencing suggestion from the PO.

Really? If he'd been sitting on her unconscious body slapping her face back and forth, would you still consider it just a horrible mistake made by a promising young man?

What if he'd stuck foreign objects in her mouth instead of her vagina?

Or how about if he'd taken a passed out girl and simply left her behind behind a dumpster and walked home with no one the wiser if he'd done anything to her or not? Would you still consider him a fine person because of everything he's accomplished?

And if he got away with these types of actions, what do you think the chances are that he would try them again with another woman? Maybe drop something in a drink since the passed out thing worked so well before? Any chance of that at all, or would it just not matter because he's so smart and capable and funny? How about if those qualities find him a wife some day - would that be enough to dismiss the thought of him humping an unconscious woman? What if, because he kept getting away with it, he was still doing it after he'd found a wife? Should we blame the women he encounters and assaults for what - just bringing out his naughty side and potentially ruining his life if they decide they didn't like it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rape culture: When a man is caught IN THE ACT OF ASSAULTING A WOMAN, and people still try to say that deep down, he's not that bad. And she was probably asking for it anyway.

Yeah. And he's being held accountable! What more do you think he deserves - stoning, dismemberment? What more can be done to this guy that hasn't already been done?

He hooked up with a girl and she passed out while they were making out. He didn't rape her, he dry humped her. And while both rape and dry humping an unconscious woman are wrong - most women would agree that there is a pretty darned big difference between the two acts. He didn't rape her, he wasn't convicted of raping her. Or kidnapping her or drugging her or stalking her....

And should pay the price for what he actually DID do. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed by the number and fervor of anonymous rape apologists. Really eye opening, in the most unfortunate way.

Best commentary I've read on the subject "She knew what she was doing by having a vagina on a Friday night."

Do you know what happens when you put a red drop of paint on a cute baby chick? The other chicks see it and peck, peck, peck, attack it until it's dead.

Brock of course is not a baby chick but he isn't exactly Ted Bundy either. It seems so obvious that he got drunk, this young woman got drunk, one thing led to another and he touched her body inappropriately while she was passed out. Yeah, that was pretty awful of him. But he's been convicted and he'll serve his time.

What I don't get is the peck, peck, pecking on this guy - is he really that horrible of a monster? And I don't understand why this victim is being portrayed as a modern day hero. She played a role in victimizing and hurting herself.

I don't get it.

And I don't get THIS! I knew plenty of guys who got blind drink in college. And I would bet my right arm none of them worried that me or one of my female friends would rape them. See how that works? Male privilege means mean don't even have to think about it. Women do, all the time. Survivor here.

They were both blind drunk. In her letter, Emily Doe puts 100% of the blame on Brock Turner - he kissed her on the dance floor, he led her behind the dumpsters, he took off her clothes, he groped her...

How does she know any of this? How does she know that she didn't kiss him or remove her own clothes or walk to the back of those dumpsters or grope him? For someone who has no memory - none - of that night she sure sounds pretty darned positive that all of this was his doing. If she could blame him for getting her drunk she would probably do that too.

She feels that she has zero accountability for being in that situation. VP Biden chastises other younger, less experienced kids for not watching out for this woman at a college party. A party that she really had no business being at in the first place. She was not a college kid anymore. But she's off the hook for getting sh*t faced, passed out drunk behind dumpsters at a college party because she doesn't remember it happening. That's all you have to do - not remember - and even if you were out of control drinking and even if you were making out with a drunk underage guy, even if you were kissing him back it becomes HIS fault. Especially if you're a girl. Because you don't remember.

Brock Turner had no right to sexually assault this woman. But to hear Emily Doe tell it - he pretty much attacked her and took her behind the dumpsters and assaulted her. She was an unwilling victim throughout it all - the wounded antelope. She has to believe that this was all done TO her - she was a victim from beginning to end. Would it make a difference to her if she saw a video of her dancing with him that night and kissing him back? Probably not. Maybe one day he can pay her back her back for that ambulance ride and all the therapy she needs....

If she had driven drunk that night she would have been accountable. If she had murdered someone she would have been accountable. If she had vandalized property or stabbed someone or snatched a purse she would have been accountable. Even if she didn't remember dong it. Instead she hurt herself by getting black out, passed out drunk and going behind dumpsters with a guy that she didn't know. It's all his fault even if she did actively participate in making out with him before she passed out because she doesn't remember. This guy had no business touching her body when she was passed out. Consensual sex becomes non-consensual the minute a person passes out - that is cut and dry, indisputable fact.

But to say that men are more responsible for their actions than women are when it comes to hooking up and having sex because of biology (he penetrated her). To equate passing out while making out to being jumped/attacked/raped by a rapist.....that isn't right.

He is 100% to blame. He penetrated an unconscious person.

Being drunk isn't consent. Kissing him isn't consent. If she voluntarily went behind the dumpster and made out with him, that wasn't consent to being penetrated after she passed out. If she had been conscious, she could have stopped at any time, saying "That was a nice kiss, but I am going home now."

Because she was unconscious, he used her like a thing. That isn't okay. Men are accountable for their own sexual behavior. If that includes rape, then they are accountable. She is not accountable for what happened because she was UNCONSCIOUS when it happened.

She didn't hurt herself. He hurt her. She may have been drunk. She may have been stupid. But she isn't responsible for her own rape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rape culture: When a man is caught IN THE ACT OF ASSAULTING A WOMAN, and people still try to say that deep down, he's not that bad. And she was probably asking for it anyway.

Yeah. And he's being held accountable! What more do you think he deserves - stoning, dismemberment? What more can be done to this guy that hasn't already been done?

He hooked up with a girl and she passed out while they were making out. He didn't rape her, he dry humped her. And while both rape and dry humping an unconscious woman are wrong - most women would agree that there is a pretty darned big difference between the two acts. He didn't rape her, he wasn't convicted of raping her. Or kidnapping her or drugging her or stalking her....

And should pay the price for what he actually DID do. Nothing more, nothing less.

He penetrated her with a foreign object. In many states that would be rape. It's only a technicality that it isn't called rape in California.

He was convicted of 3 major felonies. He deserves at least a year or two. Instead, he got 6 months and probation. It's not enough.

The only consolation is that US Swimming has said that he is not welcome to compete any longer. He is banned for life. He will not be allowed to coach, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed by the number and fervor of anonymous rape apologists. Really eye opening, in the most unfortunate way.

Best commentary I've read on the subject "She knew what she was doing by having a vagina on a Friday night."

Do you know what happens when you put a red drop of paint on a cute baby chick? The other chicks see it and peck, peck, peck, attack it until it's dead.

Brock of course is not a baby chick but he isn't exactly Ted Bundy either. It seems so obvious that he got drunk, this young woman got drunk, one thing led to another and he touched her body inappropriately while she was passed out. Yeah, that was pretty awful of him. But he's been convicted and he'll serve his time.

What I don't get is the peck, peck, pecking on this guy - is he really that horrible of a monster? And I don't understand why this victim is being portrayed as a modern day hero. She played a role in victimizing and hurting herself.

I don't get it.

And I don't get THIS! I knew plenty of guys who got blind drink in college. And I would bet my right arm none of them worried that me or one of my female friends would rape them. See how that works? Male privilege means mean don't even have to think about it. Women do, all the time. Survivor here.

They were both blind drunk. In her letter, Emily Doe puts 100% of the blame on Brock Turner - he kissed her on the dance floor, he led her behind the dumpsters, he took off her clothes, he groped her...

How does she know any of this? How does she know that she didn't kiss him or remove her own clothes or walk to the back of those dumpsters or grope him? For someone who has no memory - none - of that night she sure sounds pretty darned positive that all of this was his doing. If she could blame him for getting her drunk she would probably do that too.

She feels that she has zero accountability for being in that situation. VP Biden chastises other younger, less experienced kids for not watching out for this woman at a college party. A party that she really had no business being at in the first place. She was not a college kid anymore. But she's off the hook for getting sh*t faced, passed out drunk behind dumpsters at a college party because she doesn't remember it happening. That's all you have to do - not remember - and even if you were out of control drinking and even if you were making out with a drunk underage guy, even if you were kissing him back it becomes HIS fault. Especially if you're a girl. Because you don't remember.

Brock Turner had no right to sexually assault this woman. But to hear Emily Doe tell it - he pretty much attacked her and took her behind the dumpsters and assaulted her. She was an unwilling victim throughout it all - the wounded antelope. She has to believe that this was all done TO her - she was a victim from beginning to end. Would it make a difference to her if she saw a video of her dancing with him that night and kissing him back? Probably not. Maybe one day he can pay her back her back for that ambulance ride and all the therapy she needs....

If she had driven drunk that night she would have been accountable. If she had murdered someone she would have been accountable. If she had vandalized property or stabbed someone or snatched a purse she would have been accountable. Even if she didn't remember dong it. Instead she hurt herself by getting black out, passed out drunk and going behind dumpsters with a guy that she didn't know. It's all his fault even if she did actively participate in making out with him before she passed out because she doesn't remember. This guy had no business touching her body when she was passed out. Consensual sex becomes non-consensual the minute a person passes out - that is cut and dry, indisputable fact.

But to say that men are more responsible for their actions than women are when it comes to hooking up and having sex because of biology (he penetrated her). To equate passing out while making out to being jumped/attacked/raped by a rapist.....that isn't right.

How many times does this need to be said? SHE did not hurt herself. HE hurt her. Proven and undeniable. Agreed, women make choices that put themselves in harmful situations. But who causes the harm?? Think about it.

[Anonymous]

How many times does this need to be said? SHE did not hurt herself. HE hurt her. Proven and undeniable. Agreed, women make choices that put themselves in harmful situations. But who causes the harm?? Think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he started experimenting with alcohol/drugs the spring of his Senior year of HS and this incident with Emily Doe occurred in January of his freshman year of college (he was a 19 year old freshman, she was a 22 year old college grad with a FT job and a boyfriend). I'm still going to view this guy as a relative newbie to drinking/partying and specifically college parties - and women. He probably didn't have a great deal of experience being at drinking parties with women...

To have the freakin' Vice President of the United States voice an opinion about this is pretty amazing. And to have Barbara Boxer applaud the victim for being brave enough to "come forward"...assuming that you can call sleeping it off in the hospital, waking up with no memory of how you got there and no clue as to what happened to you "coming forward". Would the victim have gone through the rape kit and the crime photography of naked body over being groped/fingered by some drunken hookup? I know that I sure as hell wouldn't.

The only reason that this got as far as it did is because she blacked out. She was terrified of wth may have happened to her...because she didn't know. I feel bad for her. And I am disgusted on her behalf that Brock touched her passed out body the way he did. He had no right to do that.

It all seems like a bit of a witch hunt to me...I actually find myself feeling bad for BOTH of these young people. They have both lost so much...

Well she did expose in her letter that what they did to her unconscious body in the hospital was far worse than what Brock Turner did to her. That issue needs to be swept under the rug.

No, it doesn't. He's responsible for the medical exam and treatment she had to have, as well. If he hadn't sexually assaulted her, none of the hospital would have been necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

His own letter showed a lot more personal responsibility than Emily Doe's letter did. He's now a convicted criminal on the sex offender registry, she's officially the wounded victim who is waiting for him to pay her back some day. Brock's life has turned into a living nightmare. He never wants to drink again. Ever. He has lost everything over this. Things went from being fun to ruined in a night. Quite literally. He made a horrible, terrible mistake that has taken away everything that he has worked for. He is remorseful for it. If he could take back everything that he did that night. If he could unmeet Emily Doe - he would do it.

His parents and friends are still reeling from what has happened to this promising young man. How can someone so smart and funny and carefree and capable do something so stupid and hurtful? Not just to Emily Doe but to himself. Why did this happen? Why?

The more I read about this case the more I understand the relatively light sentencing suggestion from the PO.

Really? If he'd been sitting on her unconscious body slapping her face back and forth, would you still consider it just a horrible mistake made by a promising young man?

What if he'd stuck foreign objects in her mouth instead of her vagina?

Or how about if he'd taken a passed out girl and simply left her behind behind a dumpster and walked home with no one the wiser if he'd done anything to her or not? Would you still consider him a fine person because of everything he's accomplished?

And if he got away with these types of actions, what do you think the chances are that he would try them again with another woman? Maybe drop something in a drink since the passed out thing worked so well before? Any chance of that at all, or would it just not matter because he's so smart and capable and funny? How about if those qualities find him a wife some day - would that be enough to dismiss the thought of him humping an unconscious woman? What if, because he kept getting away with it, he was still doing it after he'd found a wife? Should we blame the women he encounters and assaults for what - just bringing out his naughty side and potentially ruining his life if they decide they didn't like it?

And what if he was the one who was blacked out drunk and she was only just very drunk. Maybe she was the one sitting on him and shoving her fingers and tongue into his mouth...or bought him drinks....and he drank them willingly but he passed out and she continued to grope him trying to wake him back up.....would it be her fault then? Would he be blameless because he didn't remember? Whoever passes out first wins?

What is your point? Why not stick with what actually DID happen. Neither one of these people behaved admirably that night. They were both drunk off their arses and behaving in ways that they would never behave while sober. And they have both hurt themselves and each other in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYDN piece comparing a similar case makes this sentencing even more disgusting, if that is possible:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-brock-turner-cory-batey-show-race-affects-sentencing-article-1.2664945

Except Brock Turner did not carry an unconscious woman anywhere. And he didn't rape the woman or videotape the act. Nor was he convicted of rape.

The devil is in these little details.

Call it "sexual assault" then. He was convicted of two counts of penetrating Emily's body with a foreign object.

How does that make it better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he started experimenting with alcohol/drugs the spring of his Senior year of HS and this incident with Emily Doe occurred in January of his freshman year of college (he was a 19 year old freshman, she was a 22 year old college grad with a FT job and a boyfriend). I'm still going to view this guy as a relative newbie to drinking/partying and specifically college parties - and women. He probably didn't have a great deal of experience being at drinking parties with women...

To have the freakin' Vice President of the United States voice an opinion about this is pretty amazing. And to have Barbara Boxer applaud the victim for being brave enough to "come forward"...assuming that you can call sleeping it off in the hospital, waking up with no memory of how you got there and no clue as to what happened to you "coming forward". Would the victim have gone through the rape kit and the crime photography of naked body over being groped/fingered by some drunken hookup? I know that I sure as hell wouldn't.

The only reason that this got as far as it did is because she blacked out. She was terrified of wth may have happened to her...because she didn't know. I feel bad for her. And I am disgusted on her behalf that Brock touched her passed out body the way he did. He had no right to do that.

It all seems like a bit of a witch hunt to me...I actually find myself feeling bad for BOTH of these young people. They have both lost so much...

Well she did expose in her letter that what they did to her unconscious body in the hospital was far worse than what Brock Turner did to her. That issue needs to be swept under the rug.

No, it doesn't. He's responsible for the medical exam and treatment she had to have, as well. If he hadn't sexually assaulted her, none of the hospital would have been necessary.

Nope. She is the one who drank herself into black out mode. And she is the one who consented to the exams because she is the one who couldn't remember what had happened to her. If she had remembered that he had fingered, kissed and dry humped her it is quite doubtful that she would have put herself through all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something about his eyes...reminds me of Adam Lanza. Very disturbing.

His pupils are constricted. He looks drunk and probably terrified. He didn't seem to realize initially exactly what was going on, but, from a purely selfish level, to begin to imagine everything lost: his swimming career, his degree, the ability to get a job (is he supposed to live in his dad's basement forever?). Terrified.

Whether he's a hardened sexual predator or a dumb kid, it's normal to be scared. It doesn't mean he's Adam Panda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad to me is that things like this happened from time to time when I was in college in the 80s. No one called it assault. No one reported it. The women felt like crap for drinking too much or trusting the wrong guy. It's taking time but the perspective us changing. Emily Doe may end having a big effect on the national conversation. Good outcome to a bad event.

Huh? Yes even back in the day it was frowned upon BIG TIME to sexually touch a passed out woman...or photograph her...or invite other guys in to look at her...whatever. Same with women and passed out men - it would have been frowned upon to touch a passed out guy's body/take pictures of him/invite the girls in to gawk at him. In general, college kids treat each other with decency thank goodness. But there are some that don't and they were viewed as a problem then just as much as they are now.

Women feel shame when this happens because they know that they drank way too much, allowed a guy that they didn't know to have access to their body, then passed out and lost complete control and memory over what may/may not have happened to them. And they have no way to know what happened or prove that anything happened much less who was responsible.

It has never been a good idea to get Black out drunk. And passing out outside on a public street by a dumpster is about as out of control as it gets.

I know what I saw and heard in college. I know the things that went on. You may say it was frowned upon big time. But honestly at my small private college in NE no one said much of anything. In my perspective things have vastly changed. You may have a different experience. But that does not make mine invalid

You could get yourself arrested and kicked out of school for being a part of this sort of thing - yes, sexually touching/abusing a passed out person was absolutely frowned on at the large public university that I went to.

When I was in school, it was also greatly frowned upon for a woman to get really drunk and pass out.

At my university people blacked out every weekend. We had a huge drinking culture. There were plenty of hookups that I would not call consensual. Apparently others have different experiences which I'm glad to hear. I just know the experience I had at my university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, apparently he didn't seem very drunk. That makes this a very different scenario, a very bad one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3633147/He-didn-t-drunk-wasn-t-slurring-Student-chased-Stanford-rapist-describes-attacker-tried-escape-says-check-unconscious-victim-alive.html

That article makes it sound like she walked outside and he jumped her, dragged her behind those dumpsters and attacked her. The swedes saw him humping the unconscious woman behind the dumpsters.

So where did the kissing that these two did come in? I thought Emily admitted to kissing him. Who kisses a man who is jumping, dragging, attacking and humping them behind a dumpster?

I think there are some things missing from that article.

Brock Turner was walking around the fraternity party and kissing random women. He was sort of aggressive, even in front of other people. He'd been kicked out of another party the week before for doing the same thing.