How can rational people believe in any religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there perfect physics down to the stone and then subatomic particles? Why are their physical universes that follow patterns? Why are there tiny cells with amazing functions? Believing all this happened at random takes faith. Believing all this is knitted together by God takes faith. At least the later has the Bible as evidence and the places and events of the Bible are traced.

It does not take any faith whatsoever.

All of the physics things are explained by the big bang. If evidence is found of a better explanation, we'll switch to that one.

All of those biological things are explained by evolution, with the exception of abiogenesis, and there is mountains of evidence explaining how that might have happened.

Asking how it "happened" implies there was a before it happened. There is no evidence of that, and no reason to think there was. It's quite likely time began with the big bang so there was nothing for it to come from.

None of this is simple, but it is all easy to believe once you understand.

You know what is hard to believe? A magic man in the sky who existed forever outside of time but then decided to create time and everything in it on a nearly infinite scale but place his personal fishtank on the third stone from a sun in the corner of one of billions of galaxies. And he stays hidden except for a short while to a bunch of illiterate shepherds 2 millennia before mass media. And he allowed thousands of similar stories of gods to exist but those are all false and just his is true.

That is the definition of preposterous.

Oh, nonsense. We have good Physics explanations from a very very short time after the big bang until now. We have no widely accepted Physics explanation for the big bang itself or its creation.

Let me repeat since you fail to understand. There is no evidence that the big bang was “created”, or hasn’t always existed, or that there was anything before it. There is no evidence there was time before it.

That is the “nonsense”, and it is your nonsense.

Nah. Pretty clear from the words above you don't actually understand Physics. Maybe buy a Physics textbook - I recommend Feynman's Lectures - and work through it all.

I have read a couple of Feynman’s excellent books, although I do not pretend to be expert. I understand at least as well as you, because if you had any real argument, you would have had a much more substantive response than “go read a book”. Weak.

Speaking of Feynman, here are some quotes from him:

On God and Mystery: "God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand."
On Doubt and Science: "Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt."
On Faith vs. Knowledge: "I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without any purpose - which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell."

Now here’s the Feynman fact I want to you read very carefully:

He often compared asking what was "before" the Big Bang to asking what is "north of the North Pole". If time itself is a property of the universe that began expanding at that point, the word "before" might be logically meaningless in that context.

[Anonymous]

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

My god doesn't have a gender and is everywhere not just "in the sky." My heaven is a spiritual concept not a place in the sky. Hell is the pain and torment I feel alive due to my selfishness and self centeredness, not a place where I am sent to be jabbed with pitchforks by some guy off a potted meat label. God helps mr release that selfishness and self centeredness and live a more peaceful life.

I realize now you're gonna claim I have a made up religion. Convenient huh. May the magic woman in the sky blight your crops 🤪

[Anonymous]

Life began with one cell in a primordial soup.

That cell eventually crawled onto land and learned to walk around.

Then it crawled back into the ocean.

🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

Doesn’t the bible always refer to god as “he”?

Doesn’t the bible say man was made in god’s own image?

Doesn’t the bible constantly refer to him being in “the heavens”?

Doesn’t the bible say god is all powerful?

Sounds exactly like a magic man in the sky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

Doesn’t the bible always refer to god as “he”?

Doesn’t the bible say man was made in god’s own image?

Doesn’t the bible constantly refer to him being in “the heavens”?

Doesn’t the bible say god is all powerful?

Sounds exactly like a magic man in the sky.

1. No, the Bible does not always refer to God as "He" as I already noted above. Also, as I already explained, the use of gendered pronouns for God does NOT mean that God has a gender. Gendered pronouns can convey attributes of God (strength, nurturing, etc). It's metaphor.

2. The Bible says mankind/humanity was made in God's image. Both man and woman were made in God's image. It's not about physical similarities (because, as I said before, God has no boost). It's about mankind's capacity for creativity, stewardship, etc.

3. "The heavens" is not literally the sky.

4. "All powerful" doesn't mean "magic."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

Doesn’t the bible always refer to god as “he”?

Doesn’t the bible say man was made in god’s own image?

Doesn’t the bible constantly refer to him being in “the heavens”?

Doesn’t the bible say god is all powerful?

Sounds exactly like a magic man in the sky.

1. No, the Bible does not always refer to God as "He" as I already noted above. Also, as I already explained, the use of gendered pronouns for God does NOT mean that God has a gender. Gendered pronouns can convey attributes of God (strength, nurturing, etc). It's metaphor.

2. The Bible says mankind/humanity was made in God's image. Both man and woman were made in God's image. It's not about physical similarities (because, as I said before, God has no boost). It's about mankind's capacity for creativity, stewardship, etc.

3. "The heavens" is not literally the sky.

4. "All powerful" doesn't mean "magic."

1) Educate me and tell me where god's gender is not he. And before you tell me to "google it", I did:

Yes, the Bible consistently uses masculine pronouns ("He," "Him") and titles ("Father," "King") to refer to God, though it explicitly states God is a Spirit without human sexual characteristics. While masculine language is dominant (e.g., Theos in Greek), female metaphors—such as a mother comforting a child or a mother hen (Isaiah 66:13, Matthew 23:37)—appear occasionally to describe His love, explains GotQuestions.org.

2. This is your interpretation, and it is fine but absolutely requires acceptance of non-standard meanings for the terms "image" and "likeness". So how would a rationalization to have it mean whatever you wanted differ?

3. This one I am calling you on. They meant heavens, they meant the sky

Psalm 68:4: Explicitly calls God the "One who rides on the clouds"
Deuteronomy 33:26: "There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, who rides the heavens to help you, and in His excellency on the clouds."
Psalm 18:9: "He bowed the heavens also, and came down; dark clouds were under his feet."
Exodus 16:10: "And as Aaron spoke... they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud."
Matthew 24:30: Jesus predicts that people "will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
The Tower of Babel: The people said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens" (Genesis 11:4). This indicates they believed a sufficiently tall building could physically enter God's space.
Jesus’ Ascension: After His resurrection, Jesus "was lifted up before their very eyes, and a cloud took him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9). Two angels then asked the disciples, "Why do you stand looking into heaven?".
A "Vaulted Dome": The Bible describes God as "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens and has founded His vaulted dome over the earth" (Amos 9:6).
Jesus Praying: When Jesus performed miracles or prayed, He often began by "looking up to heaven" (Mark 6:41; John 17:1).
A "High" God: Multiple verses emphasize God's literal height: "For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love..." (Psalm 103:11).
God Looking Down: "The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand" (Psalm 14:2).

I literally could fill pages with this. Again, if you want to claim it means other than what the words say, well, then that means it can be whatever you want, and therefore pretty meaningless as a guideline.

4. Would you like another bunch of quotes like above or would you just like to stop at "water into wine"?

Man. Sky. Magic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

Doesn’t the bible always refer to god as “he”?

Doesn’t the bible say man was made in god’s own image?

Doesn’t the bible constantly refer to him being in “the heavens”?

Doesn’t the bible say god is all powerful?

Sounds exactly like a magic man in the sky.

1. No, the Bible does not always refer to God as "He" as I already noted above. Also, as I already explained, the use of gendered pronouns for God does NOT mean that God has a gender. Gendered pronouns can convey attributes of God (strength, nurturing, etc). It's metaphor.

2. The Bible says mankind/humanity was made in God's image. Both man and woman were made in God's image. It's not about physical similarities (because, as I said before, God has no boost). It's about mankind's capacity for creativity, stewardship, etc.

3. "The heavens" is not literally the sky.

4. "All powerful" doesn't mean "magic."

1) Educate me and tell me where god's gender is not he. And before you tell me to "google it", I did:

Yes, the Bible consistently uses masculine pronouns ("He," "Him") and titles ("Father," "King") to refer to God, though it explicitly states God is a Spirit without human sexual characteristics. While masculine language is dominant (e.g., Theos in Greek), female metaphors—such as a mother comforting a child or a mother hen (Isaiah 66:13, Matthew 23:37)—appear occasionally to describe His love, explains GotQuestions.org.

2. This is your interpretation, and it is fine but absolutely requires acceptance of non-standard meanings for the terms "image" and "likeness". So how would a rationalization to have it mean whatever you wanted differ?

3. This one I am calling you on. They meant heavens, they meant the sky

Psalm 68:4: Explicitly calls God the "One who rides on the clouds"
Deuteronomy 33:26: "There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, who rides the heavens to help you, and in His excellency on the clouds."
Psalm 18:9: "He bowed the heavens also, and came down; dark clouds were under his feet."
Exodus 16:10: "And as Aaron spoke... they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud."
Matthew 24:30: Jesus predicts that people "will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
The Tower of Babel: The people said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens" (Genesis 11:4). This indicates they believed a sufficiently tall building could physically enter God's space.
Jesus’ Ascension: After His resurrection, Jesus "was lifted up before their very eyes, and a cloud took him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9). Two angels then asked the disciples, "Why do you stand looking into heaven?".
A "Vaulted Dome": The Bible describes God as "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens and has founded His vaulted dome over the earth" (Amos 9:6).
Jesus Praying: When Jesus performed miracles or prayed, He often began by "looking up to heaven" (Mark 6:41; John 17:1).
A "High" God: Multiple verses emphasize God's literal height: "For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love..." (Psalm 103:11).
God Looking Down: "The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand" (Psalm 14:2).

I literally could fill pages with this. Again, if you want to claim it means other than what the words say, well, then that means it can be whatever you want, and therefore pretty meaningless as a guideline.

4. Would you like another bunch of quotes like above or would you just like to stop at "water into wine"?

Man. Sky. Magic.

:eye roll:

This is why people don't answer your question. Your interpretation of pronouns and likeness and heavens as a non-religious person is not valid when asking what they mean to a religious person. You asked what the difference is between God and a magic man in the sky. I answered with the religious understanding of God as: Not one gender; Everywhere, not just in "the sky."

Calling God's power "magic" trivializes belief and allows you to feel superior. You belittling people and calling it a win makes no difference to my faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How, specifically, does your god differ from a magic man in the sky? If your explanation is apt I promise I will never use that phrase again.

Interesting how the people who object to the term can't, or won't answer this question.

"Magic man in the sky" is (as PP admitted) pejorative and derisive. It is a caricature of what religious people believe, not an accurate description of the religious conception of God. It's not a good faith engagement with the complexity of belief about the nature of God. It's not an argument against God so much as an over-simplification so that the idea can be dismissed out of hand.

To give you a cursory answer to your ridiculous question:

God isn't a "magic man in the sky." God is not gendered and doesn't have a body. Anthropomorphizing God can help us conceptualize a Divine being beyond our language and earthly experience, but that doesn't mean that God literally has arms or that referring to God as "He" denotes a literal maleness. The Bible uses different pronouns for God depending on the context; most often male, but sometimes female when referring to God's mercy or nurturing nature. Not having a body also means that God doesn't have a specific place of residence (God is everywhere, not literally in the sky).

Doesn’t the bible always refer to god as “he”?

Doesn’t the bible say man was made in god’s own image?

Doesn’t the bible constantly refer to him being in “the heavens”?

Doesn’t the bible say god is all powerful?

Sounds exactly like a magic man in the sky.

1. No, the Bible does not always refer to God as "He" as I already noted above. Also, as I already explained, the use of gendered pronouns for God does NOT mean that God has a gender. Gendered pronouns can convey attributes of God (strength, nurturing, etc). It's metaphor.

2. The Bible says mankind/humanity was made in God's image. Both man and woman were made in God's image. It's not about physical similarities (because, as I said before, God has no boost). It's about mankind's capacity for creativity, stewardship, etc.

3. "The heavens" is not literally the sky.

4. "All powerful" doesn't mean "magic."

1) Educate me and tell me where god's gender is not he. And before you tell me to "google it", I did:

Yes, the Bible consistently uses masculine pronouns ("He," "Him") and titles ("Father," "King") to refer to God, though it explicitly states God is a Spirit without human sexual characteristics. While masculine language is dominant (e.g., Theos in Greek), female metaphors—such as a mother comforting a child or a mother hen (Isaiah 66:13, Matthew 23:37)—appear occasionally to describe His love, explains GotQuestions.org.

2. This is your interpretation, and it is fine but absolutely requires acceptance of non-standard meanings for the terms "image" and "likeness". So how would a rationalization to have it mean whatever you wanted differ?

3. This one I am calling you on. They meant heavens, they meant the sky

Psalm 68:4: Explicitly calls God the "One who rides on the clouds"
Deuteronomy 33:26: "There is no one like the God of Jeshurun, who rides the heavens to help you, and in His excellency on the clouds."
Psalm 18:9: "He bowed the heavens also, and came down; dark clouds were under his feet."
Exodus 16:10: "And as Aaron spoke... they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud."
Matthew 24:30: Jesus predicts that people "will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
The Tower of Babel: The people said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens" (Genesis 11:4). This indicates they believed a sufficiently tall building could physically enter God's space.
Jesus’ Ascension: After His resurrection, Jesus "was lifted up before their very eyes, and a cloud took him out of their sight" (Acts 1:9). Two angels then asked the disciples, "Why do you stand looking into heaven?".
A "Vaulted Dome": The Bible describes God as "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens and has founded His vaulted dome over the earth" (Amos 9:6).
Jesus Praying: When Jesus performed miracles or prayed, He often began by "looking up to heaven" (Mark 6:41; John 17:1).
A "High" God: Multiple verses emphasize God's literal height: "For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love..." (Psalm 103:11).
God Looking Down: "The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand" (Psalm 14:2).

I literally could fill pages with this. Again, if you want to claim it means other than what the words say, well, then that means it can be whatever you want, and therefore pretty meaningless as a guideline.

4. Would you like another bunch of quotes like above or would you just like to stop at "water into wine"?

Man. Sky. Magic.

:eye roll:

This is why people don't answer your question. Your interpretation of pronouns and likeness and heavens as a non-religious person is not valid when asking what they mean to a religious person. You asked what the difference is between God and a magic man in the sky. I answered with the religious understanding of God as: Not one gender; Everywhere, not just in "the sky."

Calling God's power "magic" trivializes belief and allows you to feel superior. You belittling people and calling it a win makes no difference to my faith.

So your answer is:

- Religious people have different definitions of words and non-religious people’s definitions of these words is “non-valid”.
- Calling god’s power “magic” trivializes it therefore it is wrong

And this position warrants an eye-roll?

This post from you is great. it illustrates perfectly the illogical and indefensible position religious people must hold, and for good measure adds a whopping portion of condescension and special pleading (my opinion matters, yours does not).

Wowza.

Here’s what you are right about: my calling “god”’s power magic is 100% intended to trivialize it, and I do feel superior, because your life is based on something that there is no evidence is true, and you refuse to look at the evidence, and you refuse to listen to anyone who has a different position, and you even dismiss their opinion as “non-valid”. If those are not valid reasons to feel superior, well, I can’t think of any.

Magic man in the sky it remains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn’t there only be one religion if religion is real?

I believe God presents himself to different people in different ways.

So there’s one God, but a multitude of religions and beliefs

Why does God allow people to fight and kill each other over different religious beliefs, if it is all one God?

Beats me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d go even farther than OP calling religion irrational and say that it’s narcissistic in this modern age. I can understand why humans needed it to answer questions about the world in historical times, but we now have greater scientific knowledge.

We know that humans have been around for a fraction of the 13 billion years the universe has existed. And 99% of species that have ever existed are extinct through multiple mass extinction events. How incredibly self centered to think this was all created especially for us.

And the only reason people even follow the mainstream religions we see today is because those specific cultures survived and won. People believe in Jesus because of conquests and colonial missions, not because it’s inherently more true. If the Roman Empire hadn't fallen, we could just as easily be worshiping Zeus.

Not only that but anthropologists can study societies and predict what kind of God they’ll come up with based on their environment and how they’re organized. Instead people think that they just happen to be so blessed to have been born into the “correct” religion, not fully grasping that people who believe in other religions are just as convinced they are worshipping the true God, and for the most part it’s just product of their environment.

If people were just using it for emotional support, community, etc. I would say it’s all harmless and not care about religion. But in the modern world, it’s still being used as a weapon. It’s a tool to strip women of reproductive rights, spread hate against gay and trans people, and justify wars that only end up lining the pockets of billionaires. It’s a mechanism to keep the masses doing the bidding of the people at the top.

It still boggles my mind how many people can’t see through organized religion. Even as a kid I thought it was all just a polite lie, something people did for tradition.

All of this has been on my mind a lot more now with the crazy rise of Christian nationalism.

And to think, that most of Trump supporters and most people in general think Trump himself isn’t atheist. Wow! That is according to pew in a recent survey they did.

[Anonymous]

Correction, according to pew most people think Trump IS an atheist.

[Anonymous]

So a person is trivialized as "believing in a magic man in the sky" by a person whose raison d'etre on DCUM can be trivialized as ragging on religion and humblebragging on the superior brainpower of atheists.

Kewl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correction, according to pew most people think Trump IS an atheist.

"Not too or not at all religious" doesn't mean atheist. That actually describes most believers.

Anyway, Trump has said many times over the years that he believes in god and heaven.