Ivy outcomes are often just, well, average

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I want to make clear that OP is confusing "average" with "low-paying". The jobs that help the most people and "change the world" are usually not very well paid. My husband has an MD and a PhD and is a research scientist. The pay is not good, but your cancer treatments may be better for his contributions. A lot of these jobs are labors of love.

Have some respect, OP.

Op is poorly educated and has a limited intellect based on the quality of their analysis and their belief in the universality of their narrow experience.

[Anonymous]

Op, you literally came here to sh*t on well-educated researchers and high school teachers? We should be doing the opposite. These people are the best of society. Every single Ivy-educated researcher and teacher could get a higher paying job but loves what they do and are changing lives. They aren’t “average,” they are the best of humanity and we should be encouraging more of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have met multiple ivy degree holders working jobs in high school education, middling research depts, "self employed" scrapping by. Sure there are some high profile ivy leaguers but in the end many end up in same jobs as middling t200 degree holders.

The correct way to view outcome is to think of two Bell curves representing the distribution of outcomes of Ivy graduates and t200 graduates. It is without question that the Ivy Bell curve has a mean that is higher than that of the t200 Bell curve. Both Bell curves have tails representing good and bad outliers (Ivy grads driving Uber/stocking shelves, Ivy grads becoming prominent techies/politicians, t200 grads doing the same). Both Bell curves overlap so you see Ivy and t200 grads working the same role in the same office, creating the misleading impression that the outcomes are similar. What most "local observations" fail to capture is the fact that the Ivy Bell curve is to the right of the t200 Bell curve, suggesting that for any given percentile, Ivy grads in that percentile have better outcomes than those from t200.

I’m not entirely sure this is the case; i don’t have the study handy, but recall reading somewhere that, conditional on being admitted to an Ivy, the outcomes are basically the same wherever you go. (I.e., kids who were admitted to Ivies but ended up going elsewhere for whatever reason had basically the same outcomes as those who went.). To a first cut, it’s the talent of the kid that drives the outcome. That said, it’s certainly true that for certain prestige-sensitive pathways going to an Ivy makes a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, you literally came here to sh*t on well-educated researchers and high school teachers? We should be doing the opposite. These people are the best of society. Every single Ivy-educated researcher and teacher could get a higher paying job but loves what they do and are changing lives. They aren’t “average,” they are the best of humanity and we should be encouraging more of this.

THANK you. I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Yale and deliberately became a high school teacher. On purpose because I wanted to. Yale was fun and I got a good education. And, I got a really fantastic husband. 10 out of 10. Would recommend.

We have a lot of teachers in the Boston area from Harvard. My son had a special ed teacher in elementary school who graduated from Harvard and he was a saint. Brilliant, patient, dedicated, all around amazing. He was made for the job. He made a huge difference in my son’s life and made school a little more bearable for him.

This is so amazing. My sister is a kindergarten teacher with an Ivy degree and loves her job.

These highly educated teachers make a big difference in the quality of life of kids. These kids grow into adulthood and never forget these teachers.

A great teacher is a great teacher. The most beloved, intelligent, make-a-difference teacher at my kid’s school went to VCU. The Ivy educated ones don’t get extra points just because they could have made more money. In many cases, they’re able to make less because of family wealth or a high earning spouse.

[Anonymous]

One of my dearest friends went to Harvard and is an elementary school teacher. She is brilliant and this is her passion. She also has an advanced degree in special ed. I would have LOVED for her to teach my kids. She is amazing. Grow up, OP. Not everyone wants to do investment banking or law. She has a trust fund and was a legacy, so money isn’t an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I want to make clear that OP is confusing "average" with "low-paying". The jobs that help the most people and "change the world" are usually not very well paid. My husband has an MD and a PhD and is a research scientist. The pay is not good, but your cancer treatments may be better for his contributions. A lot of these jobs are labors of love.

Have some respect, OP.

Says a SAHM

[Anonymous]

This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I want to make clear that OP is confusing "average" with "low-paying". The jobs that help the most people and "change the world" are usually not very well paid. My husband has an MD and a PhD and is a research scientist. The pay is not good, but your cancer treatments may be better for his contributions. A lot of these jobs are labors of love.

Have some respect, OP.

Yeah and also jobs that change the world are not always high profile. I have a very satisfying job in which I can really help people. I'm very happy with it. Am I famous? No. High profile? No? What the OP would consider average? Quite possibly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a study years ago that found that most Ivy grads have the same jobs as non-Ivy grads.

My takeaway was that Ivies are worth it if you want to go into a high earning field, but not worth student loans if you're aiming for a regular job. Of course if you get FA then it's worth it regardless of career plans.

For some degrees, you definitely need an Ivy/T10/20. My kid has a summer internship- they noted the Ivy.

PP here, yes - that's exactly what I meant. For some high earning fields, you need that elite education to gain entry. It's worth it if you're gunning for big law or finance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a study years ago that found that most Ivy grads have the same jobs as non-Ivy grads.

My takeaway was that Ivies are worth it if you want to go into a high earning field, but not worth student loans if you're aiming for a regular job. Of course if you get FA then it's worth it regardless of career plans.

For some degrees, you definitely need an Ivy/T10/20. My kid has a summer internship- they noted the Ivy.

PP here, yes - that's exactly what I meant. For some high earning fields, you need that elite education to gain entry. It's worth it if you're gunning for big law or finance.

Also incredibly valuable in the start-up world if you are looking for funding as a 20 year old.

Like 80% of the most recent Y Combinator fundings went to Ivy plus Stanford (Stanford #1) and MIT. Berkeley was another like 3%.

Some of this is cultural…you get far more kids aggregating at these schools with the intent of starting companies. That’s the joke at Stanford…nobody attends to actually graduate, it’s to find your co-founders and drop out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

Well, for starters Stanford isn't an Ivy. If you didn't attend one of these colleges, you probably are not aware of the quality of the education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

Well, for starters Stanford isn't an Ivy. If you didn't attend one of these colleges, you probably are not aware of the quality of the education.

Lol, Stanford and Chicago catching strays! Ivy snobbishness is truly unparalleled. Can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to go into debt for the pleasure of spending four years in an atmosphere of incurious and unrelenting status competition.