Ivy outcomes are often just, well, average

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a study years ago that found that most Ivy grads have the same jobs as non-Ivy grads.

My takeaway was that Ivies are worth it if you want to go into a high earning field, but not worth student loans if you're aiming for a regular job. Of course if you get FA then it's worth it regardless of career plans.

For some degrees, you definitely need an Ivy/T10/20. My kid has a summer internship- they noted the Ivy.

PP here, yes - that's exactly what I meant. For some high earning fields, you need that elite education to gain entry. It's worth it if you're gunning for big law or finance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a study years ago that found that most Ivy grads have the same jobs as non-Ivy grads.

My takeaway was that Ivies are worth it if you want to go into a high earning field, but not worth student loans if you're aiming for a regular job. Of course if you get FA then it's worth it regardless of career plans.

For some degrees, you definitely need an Ivy/T10/20. My kid has a summer internship- they noted the Ivy.

PP here, yes - that's exactly what I meant. For some high earning fields, you need that elite education to gain entry. It's worth it if you're gunning for big law or finance.

Also incredibly valuable in the start-up world if you are looking for funding as a 20 year old.

Like 80% of the most recent Y Combinator fundings went to Ivy plus Stanford (Stanford #1) and MIT. Berkeley was another like 3%.

Some of this is cultural…you get far more kids aggregating at these schools with the intent of starting companies. That’s the joke at Stanford…nobody attends to actually graduate, it’s to find your co-founders and drop out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

Well, for starters Stanford isn't an Ivy. If you didn't attend one of these colleges, you probably are not aware of the quality of the education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

Well, for starters Stanford isn't an Ivy. If you didn't attend one of these colleges, you probably are not aware of the quality of the education.

Lol, Stanford and Chicago catching strays! Ivy snobbishness is truly unparalleled. Can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to go into debt for the pleasure of spending four years in an atmosphere of incurious and unrelenting status competition.

[Anonymous]

Admission to an elite college is a childhood achievement with lots of confounding variables. Maybe your parents were wealthy and status obsessed. Maybe your poor parents were covertly narcissistic and pushed you to succeed early so that they wouldn’t feel inferior.

Regardless of the backstory, it’s childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not true. I have never met any family doctor who is an ivy graduate, undergrad or med school. They almost all ended up in some specialties or surgeons.

Not true at all. Many Ivy grad docs work in research or academics, pathology, radiology maybe. IMO, Ivy grads make terrible surgeons. The worst surgeons I’ve ever worked with have been
Ivy grads. Book smarts and the skills needed to be a good surgeon are not the same.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know tons of Ivy grads, maybe handful. They all objectively smart people, but work in very middle paying careers. Pretty sure they could be doing the exact same job and have the same pay if they had a degree from literally anywhere.

[Anonymous]

God these posters are so predictable.

Get over it.

There will be Ivy kids that are brilliant, not just book smart. In fact, many of these kids need to study only a fraction of what your average kid does to ace a test. They don’t need standardized test prep. They never were spending hours on homework like other kids with the same HS course load because they had faster processing speed, better memory, and higher natural intelligence. They read for pleasure a ton. They are intellectually curious.

Is this kind of kid found elsewhere? Of course! You just will find a much higher number of them at an Ivy which makes for an incredibly stimulating environment.

But to categorize anyone that goes to an Ivy as a mere prestige seeker or a grind or book smart is not what you will see there. These are kids in a multitude of different things-club sports as well as academic clubs, additional research, etc.

You can look at undergrad as solely pre-professional to get a job in a very defined field (which AI may do away with eventually) or you can think about it as place to learn, explore and broaden your mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know tons of Ivy grads, maybe handful. They all objectively smart people, but work in very middle paying careers. Pretty sure they could be doing the exact same job and have the same pay if they had a degree from literally anywhere.

I know a ton of public university grads some objectively not smart, some are smart, and many with no job opportunity or in low pay careers. Some may have had success or luck. Some may be lazy, some not.

wtf???? You see how stupid these posts are. It’s fine if you don’t want to spend the $ on an Ivy or you can’t get in one. Truly, it’s fine. You all can quit with these insane posts.

[Anonymous]

In some families—especially immigrant families—having a child attend an Ivy League school is seen as a major marker of parental success. In many of their home countries, admission to a top university is widely viewed as proof of intelligence, discipline, and competence.

That perspective can clash with the more nuanced and the social class-driven realities of higher education in the United States. There can also be a sense of superiority —when a kid gets into an Ivy (especially with tiger parenting). Some parents will openly celebrate it and internalize it as validation of their sacrifices and parenting.

It’s difficult for some people to hear (be reminded) that long-term outcomes matter more than the brand name or prestige. When the return on an expensive education doesn’t match expectations—say, if an Ivy graduate ends up in a lower-paying nonprofit role and still relies on family support—those results are often kept quiet.

In a lot of immigrant families, education is seen as the main path to moving up in life. So when all that effort and sacrifice doesn’t lead to clear financial success or a higher social standing, it can feel really disappointing. Because of that, families may focus publicly on the school’s name while being far less open about what happens afterward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In some families—especially immigrant families—having a child attend an Ivy League school is seen as a major marker of parental success. In many of their home countries, admission to a top university is widely viewed as proof of intelligence, discipline, and competence.

That perspective can clash with the more nuanced and the social class-driven realities of higher education in the United States. There can also be a sense of superiority —when a kid gets into an Ivy (especially with tiger parenting). Some parents will openly celebrate it and internalize it as validation of their sacrifices and parenting.

It’s difficult for some people to hear (be reminded) that long-term outcomes matter more than the brand name or prestige. When the return on an expensive education doesn’t match expectations—say, if an Ivy graduate ends up in a lower-paying nonprofit role and still relies on family support—those results are often kept quiet.

In a lot of immigrant families, education is seen as the main path to moving up in life. So when all that effort and sacrifice doesn’t lead to clear financial success or a higher social standing, it can feel really disappointing. Because of that, families may focus publicly on the school’s name while being far less open about what happens afterward.

Typical brainwashed American who pretends to know everything but actually knows nothing. Many, if not most, immigrants are much more educated and successfully than Americans. It’s funny you portrait them as being desperate for the need to climb the social status ladder, as if they came from the bottom. Many of them and their children are just more intelligent, and bluntly far more superior so attending elite schools is simply a natural thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some families—especially immigrant families—having a child attend an Ivy League school is seen as a major marker of parental success. In many of their home countries, admission to a top university is widely viewed as proof of intelligence, discipline, and competence.

That perspective can clash with the more nuanced and the social class-driven realities of higher education in the United States. There can also be a sense of superiority —when a kid gets into an Ivy (especially with tiger parenting). Some parents will openly celebrate it and internalize it as validation of their sacrifices and parenting.

It’s difficult for some people to hear (be reminded) that long-term outcomes matter more than the brand name or prestige. When the return on an expensive education doesn’t match expectations—say, if an Ivy graduate ends up in a lower-paying nonprofit role and still relies on family support—those results are often kept quiet.

In a lot of immigrant families, education is seen as the main path to moving up in life. So when all that effort and sacrifice doesn’t lead to clear financial success or a higher social standing, it can feel really disappointing. Because of that, families may focus publicly on the school’s name while being far less open about what happens afterward.

Typical brainwashed American who pretends to know everything but actually knows nothing. Many, if not most, immigrants are much more educated and successful than Americans. It’s funny you portrait them as being desperate for the need to climb the social status ladder, as if they came from the bottom. Many of them and their children are just more intelligent, and bluntly far more superior so attending elite schools is simply a natural thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some families—especially immigrant families—having a child attend an Ivy League school is seen as a major marker of parental success. In many of their home countries, admission to a top university is widely viewed as proof of intelligence, discipline, and competence.

That perspective can clash with the more nuanced and the social class-driven realities of higher education in the United States. There can also be a sense of superiority —when a kid gets into an Ivy (especially with tiger parenting). Some parents will openly celebrate it and internalize it as validation of their sacrifices and parenting.

It’s difficult for some people to hear (be reminded) that long-term outcomes matter more than the brand name or prestige. When the return on an expensive education doesn’t match expectations—say, if an Ivy graduate ends up in a lower-paying nonprofit role and still relies on family support—those results are often kept quiet.

In a lot of immigrant families, education is seen as the main path to moving up in life. So when all that effort and sacrifice doesn’t lead to clear financial success or a higher social standing, it can feel really disappointing. Because of that, families may focus publicly on the school’s name while being far less open about what happens afterward.

Typical brainwashed American who pretends to know everything but actually knows nothing. Many, if not most, immigrants are much more educated and successfully than Americans. It’s funny you portrait them as being desperate for the need to climb the social status ladder, as if they came from the bottom. Many of them and their children are just more intelligent, and bluntly far more superior so attending elite schools is simply a natural thing.

Ok. Gaining true respect is another.

[Anonymous]

Truth hurts.