Ivy outcomes are often just, well, average

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God these posters are so predictable.

Get over it.

There will be Ivy kids that are brilliant, not just book smart. In fact, many of these kids need to study only a fraction of what your average kid does to ace a test. They don’t need standardized test prep. They never were spending hours on homework like other kids with the same HS course load because they had faster processing speed, better memory, and higher natural intelligence. They read for pleasure a ton. They are intellectually curious.

Is this kind of kid found elsewhere? Of course! You just will find a much higher number of them at an Ivy which makes for an incredibly stimulating environment.

But to categorize anyone that goes to an Ivy as a mere prestige seeker or a grind or book smart is not what you will see there. These are kids in a multitude of different things-club sports as well as academic clubs, additional research, etc.

You can look at undergrad as solely pre-professional to get a job in a very defined field (which AI may do away with eventually) or you can think about it as place to learn, explore and broaden your mind.

Thank you for saying this. I'm very very excited for DC who is headed to HYPS this fall - for the exploring , learning, broadening his mind part, and for meeting peers who are as curious as he is... he has already started reading books written by professors there and I know he's the type to go to them and tell them he read their book and start discussing it. High school was a grind for him and so glad it's almost over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know tons of Ivy grads, maybe handful. They all objectively smart people, but work in very middle paying careers. Pretty sure they could be doing the exact same job and have the same pay if they had a degree from literally anywhere.

I know a ton of public university grads some objectively not smart, some are smart, and many with no job opportunity or in low pay careers. Some may have had success or luck. Some may be lazy, some not.

wtf???? You see how stupid these posts are. It’s fine if you don’t want to spend the $ on an Ivy or you can’t get in one. Truly, it’s fine. You all can quit with these insane posts.

Is it fine, though? Is it fine to have a high-stats kid and just … let them not apply to an Ivy?

[Anonymous]

I have walked around many universities. I don't think I ever felt so dumb as being on the Harvard yard during class turnover! The graduates may end up in average lives but damn they are intelligent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know tons of Ivy grads, maybe handful. They all objectively smart people, but work in very middle paying careers. Pretty sure they could be doing the exact same job and have the same pay if they had a degree from literally anywhere.

I know a ton of public university grads some objectively not smart, some are smart, and many with no job opportunity or in low pay careers. Some may have had success or luck. Some may be lazy, some not.

wtf???? You see how stupid these posts are. It’s fine if you don’t want to spend the $ on an Ivy or you can’t get in one. Truly, it’s fine. You all can quit with these insane posts.

Is it fine, though? Is it fine to have a high-stats kid and just … let them not apply to an Ivy?

I have a college sophomore at an Ivy. I was being sarcastic. But, my point being: why does OP care what anyone else chooses to do? Seriously, why? And all these stupid anecdotal stories, so dumb. I can find a lot of losers in every rank of school, and smart people too.

FWIW- my Ivy kid is absolutely thriving and the opportunities being handed to him and the encouragement by faculty members to apply for internships and special discussion groups, etc is beyond what I imagined only 1.5 years in. He’s already had a semester abroad working an internship, as well as classes at a top university over there. He has a fully paid/funded research panel his profs told to apply for in Europe this summer, and it’s secured. He’s had countless connections.

We chose to pay over in-state because my kid is the type that would lap up any opportunity. He’s innately curious. He handles school work and plays a club sport and has a thriving social life in addition to 2 clubs and model UN.

So, yeah, he’s not in STEM and the Ivy network is already helping him a ton. It’s a little more difficult for kids not in STEM at many state schools. The goal is to be able to do something he loves and is meaningful, to support himself but not just: “how much $ can I make?” A lot of Ivy are at my agency- not everyone wants to be an investment banker/finance bro or hedge fund manager or a partner at a law firm. With AI at warp speed who knows what jobs will become obsolete. It’s best to have some versatility.

So just worry about your own kids/family and not what others choose to do. You’ll be much happier in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some families—especially immigrant families—having a child attend an Ivy League school is seen as a major marker of parental success. In many of their home countries, admission to a top university is widely viewed as proof of intelligence, discipline, and competence.

That perspective can clash with the more nuanced and the social class-driven realities of higher education in the United States. There can also be a sense of superiority —when a kid gets into an Ivy (especially with tiger parenting). Some parents will openly celebrate it and internalize it as validation of their sacrifices and parenting.

It’s difficult for some people to hear (be reminded) that long-term outcomes matter more than the brand name or prestige. When the return on an expensive education doesn’t match expectations—say, if an Ivy graduate ends up in a lower-paying nonprofit role and still relies on family support—those results are often kept quiet.

In a lot of immigrant families, education is seen as the main path to moving up in life. So when all that effort and sacrifice doesn’t lead to clear financial success or a higher social standing, it can feel really disappointing. Because of that, families may focus publicly on the school’s name while being far less open about what happens afterward.

Typical brainwashed American who pretends to know everything but actually knows nothing. Many, if not most, immigrants are much more educated and successfully than Americans. It’s funny you portrait them as being desperate for the need to climb the social status ladder, as if they came from the bottom. Many of them and their children are just more intelligent, and bluntly far more superior so attending elite schools is simply a natural thing.

Ok. Gaining true respect is another.

as if “respect “ from inferior people matters…

[Anonymous]

This thread should have just ended on the first page with the poster who mentioned the two Bell curves.

[Anonymous]

Because people sometimes choose to do average things! Going to Harvard doesn’t require you be chief justice of the SCOTUS 30 years after. It also doesn’t require you to become a top academic. All school formally does is make you attend class (if it even Does that), complete assignments, and receive a grade. Schools don’t “do” or “make” anything; people do and make things. If you desire to be someone important, Harvard is a damned good launching point, and arguably the best in the country. That doesn’t mean everyone who enters Harvard will exit and go into the world important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God these posters are so predictable.

Get over it.

There will be Ivy kids that are brilliant, not just book smart. In fact, many of these kids need to study only a fraction of what your average kid does to ace a test. They don’t need standardized test prep. They never were spending hours on homework like other kids with the same HS course load because they had faster processing speed, better memory, and higher natural intelligence. They read for pleasure a ton. They are intellectually curious.

Is this kind of kid found elsewhere? Of course! You just will find a much higher number of them at an Ivy which makes for an incredibly stimulating environment.

But to categorize anyone that goes to an Ivy as a mere prestige seeker or a grind or book smart is not what you will see there. These are kids in a multitude of different things-club sports as well as academic clubs, additional research, etc.

You can look at undergrad as solely pre-professional to get a job in a very defined field (which AI may do away with eventually) or you can think about it as place to learn, explore and broaden your mind.

Thank you for saying this. I'm very very excited for DC who is headed to HYPS this fall - for the exploring , learning, broadening his mind part, and for meeting peers who are as curious as he is... he has already started reading books written by professors there and I know he's the type to go to them and tell them he read their book and start discussing it. High school was a grind for him and so glad it's almost over.

There are all kinds of kids at these schools. Yes, even HYP. I have one who is just super smart but did the bare minimum in high school and continues to do the bare minimum at the Ivy (and still does very well). He talks about classmates who are brilliant and ones who are totally average and who really struggle. Yes, you have the dynamic and super smart ones who will do things that really change the world but you have plenty more like my kid who is smart but lazy and others who are just pretty average but had some sort or hook or just dumb luck.

[Anonymous]

middle class kids cannot afford wasting wrong choices with parents' 401K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God these posters are so predictable.

Get over it.

There will be Ivy kids that are brilliant, not just book smart. In fact, many of these kids need to study only a fraction of what your average kid does to ace a test. They don’t need standardized test prep. They never were spending hours on homework like other kids with the same HS course load because they had faster processing speed, better memory, and higher natural intelligence. They read for pleasure a ton. They are intellectually curious.

Is this kind of kid found elsewhere? Of course! You just will find a much higher number of them at an Ivy which makes for an incredibly stimulating environment.

But to categorize anyone that goes to an Ivy as a mere prestige seeker or a grind or book smart is not what you will see there. These are kids in a multitude of different things-club sports as well as academic clubs, additional research, etc.

You can look at undergrad as solely pre-professional to get a job in a very defined field (which AI may do away with eventually) or you can think about it as place to learn, explore and broaden your mind.

Louder for those in the back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is really two debates in one.

1. Is your Ivy degree wasted if you earn a middle-class salary, or achieve anything short of extraordinary success in your field? Answer: no.

2. Does it make sense for donut hole parents to borrow $100k plus to send their high-stats kids to Ivies over going in-state to a highly-respected but much more affordable public T50? Answer: also no.

This assumes job outcomes are the only reason to go to college. Umm, how about the quality of the education????

Signed,

an Ivy grad with a job that OP might consider average but who would do it all again in a heartbeat because I value education

Oh yes, the “quality of the education” at Harvard where everyone is too busy applying for clubs to attend class, or at Stanford where kids go just to get VC funding and drop out. That’s what these schools are all about, “the quality of the education.” Give me a break.

Well, for starters Stanford isn't an Ivy. If you didn't attend one of these colleges, you probably are not aware of the quality of the education.

Lol, Stanford and Chicago catching strays! Ivy snobbishness is truly unparalleled. Can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to go into debt for the pleasure of spending four years in an atmosphere of incurious and unrelenting status competition.

Look, I don't disagree on the quality of Stanford and Chicago, but please go back and read the topic of this thread. It's about IVY outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have met multiple ivy degree holders working jobs in high school education, middling research depts, "self employed" scrapping by. Sure there are some high profile ivy leaguers but in the end many end up in same jobs as middling t200 degree holders.

So don't send your kid to an Ivy. Big loss for the Ivies. Done.

[Anonymous]

It doesn’t really matter much — it’s kind of out of fashion anyway. The goal post has moved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter much — it’s kind of out of fashion anyway. The goal post has moved

That’s not true. Hiring is primarily being done out of T1-20s with the horrific job market. The “we don’t like the elites and only want publics, sec” was so 2024.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter much — it’s kind of out of fashion anyway. The goal post has moved

That’s not true. Hiring is primarily being done out of T1-20s with the horrific job market. The “we don’t like the elites and only want publics, sec” was so 2024.

This is a provocative thing to say but where is your evidence of this?