Child getting pulled out for ESL help but isn’t an English language learner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

Not all school districts do this and if they do they should tell parents on the form that if they disclose another language spoken at home their child will be assessed. There is no constitutional requirement for school systems to do this when the family says they ALSO speak English and that English is the primary language spoken at home. But in the US foreign languages are considered a deficit instead of an asset.

Of course not all districts, but most of the large ones that DCUM posters use do.

I absolutely think there should be more transparency about what triggers an assessment. Parents should make their school board aware of their concerns in order to use their voices to impact the procedures. Of course, parents and the general public also need to understand that speaking English along with another language doesn’t always equate to proficiency in both languages. But I understand that school staff are not trusted by some to evaluate their child’s proficiency, and those parents should feel empowered to opt their child out of receiving services.

In my district btw parents did make the system aware of their concerns and it came up in the anti racist audit. School staff KNOW that parents are BEGGING them to remove their children from ESL. They often do not listen. That is a reality many families have experienced. But you are framing this as a parent problem. It is a school system problem.

Of course it’s a school system problem. But school systems do not listen when it is only teachers saying something (ask any teacher anywhere, and it’s hard to put your job on the line to be a truth teller). Parents also need to make their voices heard, legally if necessary. As always, it’s not teachers vs parents, it’s individuals vs the systems.

Okay? Now you are just stating the obvious and pretending you GAF about kids in this situation

[Anonymous]

I am an EL teacher in LCPS.

1. Families can absolutely refuse EL services.
2. A lot of the time our services are "push in" meaning we come into the gen ed classroom. So I "know" all the kids in the class, not just the ones who are "mine." I also help anyone who needs help, while obviously focusing on the ones receiving EL services.

OP are you sure the mom wasn't just saying that she services a classroom where your child also was?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an EL teacher in LCPS.

1. Families can absolutely refuse EL services.
2. A lot of the time our services are "push in" meaning we come into the gen ed classroom. So I "know" all the kids in the class, not just the ones who are "mine." I also help anyone who needs help, while obviously focusing on the ones receiving EL services.

OP are you sure the mom wasn't just saying that she services a classroom where your child also was?

Just reposting the OP since you ignored most of what she said

I ran into the mother of my daughter’s classmate at school and she mentioned that she also knew my son because she’d worked with him at school. I said, oh, doing what? And she said she had been the ESL teacher.

The thing is, my son was not an English language learner. He is Korean but his language at home is English. I must’ve sounded really stupid trying to understand why he had been pulled out all last year for this. She said he had tested out (obviously).

Why would the school do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Maybe he was found eligible for esol services.

Each state determines eligibility differently. In Maryland, you fill out questions about languages first spoken, most often used at home, and other languages spoken in the home. Based on those responses, children are screened. Your child can speak English but still be impacted by other languages spoken at home and that might be revealed during the screening process. You will receive a letter that states your son is eligible for services and will be able do accept or decline services. Keep in mind, Maryland is in the process of revising the letter so schools can’t send it home yet. Also, even if you refuse services, your son will be assessed yearly until he meets the cut score.

The other possibility is that the esol teacher is plugging into a classroom to support students and your son just happens to be in the same class. Many esol programs have a coteaching model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

Not all school districts do this and if they do they should tell parents on the form that if they disclose another language spoken at home their child will be assessed. There is no constitutional requirement for school systems to do this when the family says they ALSO speak English and that English is the primary language spoken at home. But in the US foreign languages are considered a deficit instead of an asset.

Of course not all districts, but most of the large ones that DCUM posters use do.

I absolutely think there should be more transparency about what triggers an assessment. Parents should make their school board aware of their concerns in order to use their voices to impact the procedures. Of course, parents and the general public also need to understand that speaking English along with another language doesn’t always equate to proficiency in both languages. But I understand that school staff are not trusted by some to evaluate their child’s proficiency, and those parents should feel empowered to opt theiur child out of receiving services.

But if a parent says they primarily speak English at home, shouldn't school systems take that at face value? Instead of assuming because they speak another language as well, their English might be bad? If you don't trust parents, then why not assess all children?

No, schools can’t just take that at face value because that means different things to different people. Plus, it’s just a screener, no need to overreact about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Because the test is not given at the beginning of the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

Not all school districts do this and if they do they should tell parents on the form that if they disclose another language spoken at home their child will be assessed. There is no constitutional requirement for school systems to do this when the family says they ALSO speak English and that English is the primary language spoken at home. But in the US foreign languages are considered a deficit instead of an asset.

Of course not all districts, but most of the large ones that DCUM posters use do.

I absolutely think there should be more transparency about what triggers an assessment. Parents should make their school board aware of their concerns in order to use their voices to impact the procedures. Of course, parents and the general public also need to understand that speaking English along with another language doesn’t always equate to proficiency in both languages. But I understand that school staff are not trusted by some to evaluate their child’s proficiency, and those parents should feel empowered to opt theiur child out of receiving services.

But if a parent says they primarily speak English at home, shouldn't school systems take that at face value? Instead of assuming because they speak another language as well, their English might be bad? If you don't trust parents, then why not assess all children?

No, schools can’t just take that at face value because that means different things to different people. Plus, it’s just a screener, no need to overreact about this.

OP is saying her child was pulled out from school all year before he was assessed so it wasn't "just a screener", it was many hours of him missing appropriate instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Maybe he was found eligible for esol services.

Each state determines eligibility differently. In Maryland, you fill out questions about languages first spoken, most often used at home, and other languages spoken in the home. Based on those responses, children are screened. Your child can speak English but still be impacted by other languages spoken at home and that might be revealed during the screening process. You will receive a letter that states your son is eligible for services and will be able do accept or decline services. Keep in mind, Maryland is in the process of revising the letter so schools can’t send it home yet. Also, even if you refuse services, your son will be assessed yearly until he meets the cut score.

The other possibility is that the esol teacher is plugging into a classroom to support students and your son just happens to be in the same class. Many esol programs have a coteaching model.

I see so many problems with this process starting with the implicit assumption that other languages are a deficit instead of an asset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

Not all school districts do this and if they do they should tell parents on the form that if they disclose another language spoken at home their child will be assessed. There is no constitutional requirement for school systems to do this when the family says they ALSO speak English and that English is the primary language spoken at home. But in the US foreign languages are considered a deficit instead of an asset.

Of course not all districts, but most of the large ones that DCUM posters use do.

I absolutely think there should be more transparency about what triggers an assessment. Parents should make their school board aware of their concerns in order to use their voices to impact the procedures. Of course, parents and the general public also need to understand that speaking English along with another language doesn’t always equate to proficiency in both languages. But I understand that school staff are not trusted by some to evaluate their child’s proficiency, and those parents should feel empowered to opt theiur child out of receiving services.

But if a parent says they primarily speak English at home, shouldn't school systems take that at face value? Instead of assuming because they speak another language as well, their English might be bad? If you don't trust parents, then why not assess all children?

No, schools can’t just take that at face value because that means different things to different people. Plus, it’s just a screener, no need to overreact about this.

DP. It is not “just a screener.” First of all, screening tests take a kid out of class and schools typically make no effort to catch the kid up on what they missed. You may think this is trivial but as kids get older it is not. Second of all, the “screener” opens the door to the bureaucratic nightmare that is trying to get the school to remove the ESOL label. A kid could have a bad day and fail the screener, a stubborn kid could tank it on purpose, lots of stuff. If I was a parent of a kid with a second language spoken at home there is zero way I would disclose it unless I thought the kid needed ESL support. And I would decline the “screener.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Maybe he was found eligible for esol services.

Each state determines eligibility differently. In Maryland, you fill out questions about languages first spoken, most often used at home, and other languages spoken in the home. Based on those responses, children are screened. Your child can speak English but still be impacted by other languages spoken at home and that might be revealed during the screening process. You will receive a letter that states your son is eligible for services and will be able do accept or decline services. Keep in mind, Maryland is in the process of revising the letter so schools can’t send it home yet. Also, even if you refuse services, your son will be assessed yearly until he meets the cut score.

The other possibility is that the esol teacher is plugging into a classroom to support students and your son just happens to be in the same class. Many esol programs have a coteaching model.

I see so many problems with this process starting with the implicit assumption that other languages are a deficit instead of an asset.

+1. Parents should be asked if the child speaks English fluently. If the answer is yes, then no screening unless a teacher flags an obvious need. Then screen with consent of parents. That is what is required for IEP screening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Maybe he was found eligible for esol services.

Each state determines eligibility differently. In Maryland, you fill out questions about languages first spoken, most often used at home, and other languages spoken in the home. Based on those responses, children are screened. Your child can speak English but still be impacted by other languages spoken at home and that might be revealed during the screening process. You will receive a letter that states your son is eligible for services and will be able do accept or decline services. Keep in mind, Maryland is in the process of revising the letter so schools can’t send it home yet. Also, even if you refuse services, your son will be assessed yearly until he meets the cut score.

The other possibility is that the esol teacher is plugging into a classroom to support students and your son just happens to be in the same class. Many esol programs have a coteaching model.

I see so many problems with this process starting with the implicit assumption that other languages are a deficit instead of an asset.

+1. Parents should be asked if the child speaks English fluently. If the answer is yes, then no screening unless a teacher flags an obvious need. Then screen with consent of parents. That is what is required for IEP screening.

Right? I don't understand why so many educators are okay with the blatant disrespect for immigrant parents that is apparent in this process. You can ASK parents before assessing a child and certainly before spending a YEAR pulling them out of class.

[Anonymous]

1. Speaking a second language is absolutely an asset to our students. I encourage parents to help students maintain their home language and to develop literacy skills in it.
2. “Fluency” has to be assessed. Speaking two languages does not mean speaking both fluently. Some children who are bilingual speak a lot of conversational English, but lack academic proficiency. These students, when assessed, may be a level 3 or 4 English speaker, which means they have some mastery of the language but could still benefit from additional language support. Offering EL support does not mean the child is deficient in any way.

The OP has not mentioned discussing what the friend/EL teacher said with the child’s actual teacher or school administration, so it’s 7nclear what actually happened with her child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Speaking a second language is absolutely an asset to our students. I encourage parents to help students maintain their home language and to develop literacy skills in it.
2. “Fluency” has to be assessed. Speaking two languages does not mean speaking both fluently. Some children who are bilingual speak a lot of conversational English, but lack academic proficiency. These students, when assessed, may be a level 3 or 4 English speaker, which means they have some mastery of the language but could still benefit from additional language support. Offering EL support does not mean the child is deficient in any way.

The OP has not mentioned discussing what the friend/EL teacher said with the child’s actual teacher or school administration, so it’s 7nclear what actually happened with her child.

In other words you disbelieve when immigrant parents say:
1. Their child speaks English and
2. That their child received ESL pullouts for a year and at the end of the year was assessed to not need them (that is what OP paid)

So yeah if you don't inform or ask parents before you spend a year pulling their kid out of class because the presence of another language at home indicates the parents can't be trusted to asses their kid's English language skills, then you are behaving in a discriminatory manner, because you have an inherently distrust of people who speak languages other than English.