Child getting pulled out for ESL help but isn’t an English language learner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don’t mention any other languages in the surveys.

My husband and I listed two other languages in addition to English. One is Spanish. We made clear we speak mostly English at home because I didn't want her stuck in ELL.

AFAIK our child was not assessed or pulled out for Kindergarten. Our child attends a dual language (English and Spanish) immersion school though and it would be pretty absurd to put her in ELL when she clearly knows much more English than Spanish.

I guess it depends on the district/state and maybe on the school?
The point is, if you don’t think your child needs testing twice a year and additional English instruction, you know what not to do.

I happen to know people in my district have complained about their English speaking kids being shoved into ESL so I wonder if they changed their practices in response to this. It's a ridiculous practice that is blatantly discriminatory

It’s literally anti discriminatory as everyone who indicates another language is tested!
I mean it’s inflexible, yes, but that’s the flip side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just don’t mention any other languages in the surveys.

My husband and I listed two other languages in addition to English. One is Spanish. We made clear we speak mostly English at home because I didn't want her stuck in ELL.

AFAIK our child was not assessed or pulled out for Kindergarten. Our child attends a dual language (English and Spanish) immersion school though and it would be pretty absurd to put her in ELL when she clearly knows much more English than Spanish.

I guess it depends on the district/state and maybe on the school?
The point is, if you don’t think your child needs testing twice a year and additional English instruction, you know what not to do.

I happen to know people in my district have complained about their English speaking kids being shoved into ESL so I wonder if they changed their practices in response to this. It's a ridiculous practice that is blatantly discriminatory

It’s literally anti discriminatory as everyone who indicates another language is tested!
I mean it’s inflexible, yes, but that’s the flip side.

The result is clearly discriminatory as this thread illustrates. The parents don't know they are signing their kid up for ESL assessments that aren't even developmentally appropriate (probably intentionally). It should not be based on a survey like this, that's ridiculous. Just like teachers identify kids that need to be screened for special education services, they can identify kids that need to be screened for ESL. But that would mean less funding for the district.

[Anonymous]

1. School districts do NOT have to assess kids whose parents list other languages in addition to English
2. If they have this practice they need to inform parents ON THE FORM that disclosing other languages will automatically trigger an ESL assessment
3. That assessment should be developmentally appropriate.

School systems are

[Anonymous]

Ultimately what these disgusting, racist school systems are doing is saying they do not believe parents when they say their kids speak English. It is horrifying and anyone who supports this practice is a POS

[Anonymous]

Why not test ALL kids for ESL and see who passes? You disgusting racists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw I am a Latina that grew up speaking Spanish at home and visiting my home country. One time I was dating this White guy and he literally told me a word I was using in Spanish was incorrect because he didn't understand that people in different countries use different terms for things. This was a word that was literally in the name of a family business in my home country.

lol I hoped you dumped his culo.

I am a white lady who happens to speak really good Spanish and from time to time have Latino friends who are not fluent but I would never ever correct their vocab, that would be so arrogant! I have studied the language but they live it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

[Anonymous]

Just to add:
My kid was pulled out of K for esl despite being a native English speaker, already reading, outgoing with no speech issues, and no we did not indicate any other language spoken at home. Just didn’t happen to be white. I didn’t even know, heard about it after months through my kid.
So yes, it does happen, it is blatantly racist, and I think it’s terrible.

[Anonymous]

In case it's a staffing issue -- to keep a teacher slot at the school, I had my suspicions. I'll mention this which is not about ESL but it might be a similar play book. In ES, parents were told the school was doing "flexible groupings." 4th Grade. Sounds good, I thought. Son was grouped w/students w/IEPs getting extra support. Made some sense. He was the youngest in his class. Extra help, though he was performing on grade level, seemed ok to us. I was imaging students would move freely between groups. Ok until, his report card later in the year had a new notation that he was receiving a "modified curriculum" and had received a "modified grade". A modified curriculum (as you probably all know) means he does not have to be taught/does not have to achieve grade level benchmarks. This was not ok. Was the school now classifying him as having special needs? Without our knowledge, without any discussion (seemed like the opposite, when other parents have to fight so hard for services. So why this particular year. Is it just about the staffing numbers?) Got that notation removed from this report card and they lowered his modified A to a regular B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you are unusual. A good teacher pp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In case it's a staffing issue -- to keep a teacher slot at the school, I had my suspicions. I'll mention this which is not about ESL but it might be a similar play book. In ES, parents were told the school was doing "flexible groupings." 4th Grade. Sounds good, I thought. Son was grouped w/students w/IEPs getting extra support. Made some sense. He was the youngest in his class. Extra help, though he was performing on grade level, seemed ok to us. I was imaging students would move freely between groups. Ok until, his report card later in the year had a new notation that he was receiving a "modified curriculum" and had received a "modified grade". A modified curriculum (as you probably all know) means he does not have to be taught/does not have to achieve grade level benchmarks. This was not ok. Was the school now classifying him as having special needs? Without our knowledge, without any discussion (seemed like the opposite, when other parents have to fight so hard for services. So why this particular year. Is it just about the staffing numbers?) Got that notation removed from this report card and they lowered his modified A to a regular B.

wtf I would be livid! (And my kid has an IEP.) I should add though - my kid is 2E so sometimes a thoughtful grouping benefited him and the other kids. Like he would be reading buddies with the NT kid who was behind him in reading but drew him out socially. I would be very mad if he was stuck with any sort of pullout or group that was not academically appropriate though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.