Child getting pulled out for ESL help but isn’t an English language learner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child was pulled out all year and you didn't ever hear about it?

DP. I believe it. Schools feel they have the right to do this and don’t really worry about the loss of class time.

NP. They aren't missing class time! The rest of the class just sits around playing on computers during that time block. Ask me how I know. Dh has been upset about it for years (extra computer use and nothing planned). Why aren't they at least just having kids read?

Well that is awful but still no reason to give ESL pullouts to a kid based on their race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem


Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

The link you provide discusses how schools stop requiring students to use “appropriate language.” My EL services aren’t to make students sound white, it’s to teach them words and concepts they don’t know so they can keep up with their peers in middle school and not be relegated to remedial classes. Many EL students today are actually languishing—not making adequate progress to exit the program in a timely manner, which makes it harder for them to have the language skills to succeed in advanced classes and diplomas.

Look into the difference between BICS and CALP to learn more about how second language learners may sound fluent but need additional support in vocabulary and other language skills to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

That link doesn’t say anything about funding as a reason kids are put on ELL services. It talks about racism as a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem


Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

The link you provide discusses how schools stop requiring students to use “appropriate language.” My EL services aren’t to make students sound white, it’s to teach them words and concepts they don’t know so they can keep up with their peers in middle school and not be relegated to remedial classes. Many EL students today are actually languishing—not making adequate progress to exit the program in a timely manner, which makes it harder for them to have the language skills to succeed in advanced classes and diplomas.

Look into the difference between BICS and CALP to learn more about how second language learners may sound fluent but need additional support in vocabulary and other language skills to succeed.

You sound threatened by the notion that EL services might be used in an oppressive way. This isn't about you. This is about English proficient students being denied an appropriate education because of their race. Stop making it about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

That link doesn’t say anything about funding as a reason kids are put on ELL services. It talks about racism as a reason.

I'm so pleased one of you a-holes finally took the time to read about this instead of continuing to deny it is happening. Congratulations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Apparently he didn't. I assume this was Kindergarten? My younger (white American) kid talked very little in Kindergarten. So, so shy. They felt her verbal skills were a little behind. They weren't at all--very ahead in fact--but they could not see that. Almost like selective mutism I guess.

Same. But the school contacted us to ask if they could test her. My child has social anxiety, she just doesn't talk a lot, there's nothing wrong with how she talks. We declined services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

That link doesn’t say anything about funding as a reason kids are put on ELL services. It talks about racism as a reason.

I'm so pleased one of you a-holes finally took the time to read about this instead of continuing to deny it is happening. Congratulations!

You posted that link in support of the argument that kids are being placed in ELL services to increase funding. It didn’t support that argument. I already believed racism, disguised as concern about code switching plays a role in ELL identification. It didn’t change my belief that school systems aren’t overidentifying kids due to funding.

Even if they were doing this, OP’s kid doesn’t seem to have been identified, they seem to have spent time with an ELL teacher who provided services in their classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

That link doesn’t say anything about funding as a reason kids are put on ELL services. It talks about racism as a reason.

I'm so pleased one of you a-holes finally took the time to read about this instead of continuing to deny it is happening. Congratulations!

You posted that link in support of the argument that kids are being placed in ELL services to increase funding. It didn’t support that argument. I already believed racism, disguised as concern about code switching plays a role in ELL identification. It didn’t change my belief that school systems aren’t overidentifying kids due to funding.

Even if they were doing this, OP’s kid doesn’t seem to have been identified, they seem to have spent time with an ELL teacher who provided services in their classroom.

If OP's kid is getting a pull out OP should have been notified and told the reason for the pullout. She wasn't, and I imagine there is a shady AF reason for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

Did you actually read the article that you are posting? It basically says that these are kids that can't speak any language in a grammatical way, instead speak slang, but you (and the author) are mad at the schools for believing that they should learn both academic English and academic Spanish. Umm... yes, that is what schools are for. If their kids are happy to speak street Spanish and don't feel that they need to be able to write in an academic way, they don't need to go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents can opt students out of receiving EL services. They will still be annually assessed, but will not receive services.

In 25 years as a classroom and EL teacher, I’ve never thought or heard anyone else talk about a child in terms of funding. We are too busy trying to help the large caseloads we have.

These are real documented experiences families have had. If you don't believe them that's a you problem.

Can you point to this documentation?

For the third time, here is a link.
https://demystifyinglanguage.fordham.edu/articles/language-is-not-the-problem-racism-is-the-problem



Feel free to do your own Google search if you actually care about this issue (I suspect you don't)
By the way I personally know multiple Latino families that have had to BEG to get their English speaking kids removed from ESL.

That link doesn’t say anything about funding as a reason kids are put on ELL services. It talks about racism as a reason.

I'm so pleased one of you a-holes finally took the time to read about this instead of continuing to deny it is happening. Congratulations!

You posted that link in support of the argument that kids are being placed in ELL services to increase funding. It didn’t support that argument. I already believed racism, disguised as concern about code switching plays a role in ELL identification. It didn’t change my belief that school systems aren’t overidentifying kids due to funding.

Even if they were doing this, OP’s kid doesn’t seem to have been identified, they seem to have spent time with an ELL teacher who provided services in their classroom.

If OP's kid is getting a pull out OP should have been notified and told the reason for the pullout. She wasn't, and I imagine there is a shady AF reason for that.

Or more likely, what the kid was getting wasn’t a pull-out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In our district, once you mention any other language other than English spoken at home (even if it’s one a year when granny comes to visit from Korea), you are on the hook for those tests. However parents know when kids reclassify (and they get info about their levels once the kids do their initial testing). So it’s strange.

Correct. If a child speaks a language other than English at home, schools are legally obligated to assess their need for English learner services, to meet their 14th amendment rights to an equal education. Unfortunately, as some people note, exiting services requires proving English language proficiency, which can be a high standard for some kindergarten students.

The 14th amendment doesn't say you have to assess every child whose parents list English alongside another language spoken at home. That is a choice by school districts to maximize their funding at the expense of students of color.

If they are fully English proficient, it will show when they are tested and they won't qualify for services. Every ESOL teacher I know has a huge caseload including me. I tested a kindergarten student last week who spoke two languages at home. He tested as fully English proficient as do other kids. I'm here to help students reach this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.