Child getting pulled out for ESL help but isn’t an English language learner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

[Anonymous]

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

I know LCPS sends out notification about any child receiving intervention services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

*laughs in IEP.*

If you think schools are diligent about this kind of stuff, you are in for a surprise!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

??? We send home the scores which lets parents know whether their child is below, on, or above grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

??? We send home the scores which lets parents know whether their child is below, on, or above grade level.

The DIBELS reports I've seen do not use that language and it doesn't match up with what the report card says (e.g. Says a child "needs support" while report card says they are on level). It is super confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

??? We send home the scores which lets parents know whether their child is below, on, or above grade level.

The DIBELS reports I've seen do not use that language and it doesn't match up with what the report card says (e.g. Says a child "needs support" while report card says they are on level). It is super confusing.

The parent report we send home is pretty clear. Plus we send it home prior to the first parent conference in the fall so we can go over it when parents come in (if they do). The report says the overall score and whether or not the child has met the benchmark goal for that time of year. It also gives that same information for each subtest. Here’s an example report (scroll down to Home Connect):

https://www.sau11.nh.gov/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=4377019&type=d&pREC_ID=2593300

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

??? We send home the scores which lets parents know whether their child is below, on, or above grade level.

The DIBELS reports I've seen do not use that language and it doesn't match up with what the report card says (e.g. Says a child "needs support" while report card says they are on level). It is super confusing.

The parent report we send home is pretty clear. Plus we send it home prior to the first parent conference in the fall so we can go over it when parents come in (if they do). The report says the overall score and whether or not the child has met the benchmark goal for that time of year. It also gives that same information for each subtest. Here’s an example report (scroll down to Home Connect):

https://www.sau11.nh.gov/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=4377019&type=d&pREC_ID=2593300

Yeah, I've gotten this report and it's not clear at all. I had to do additional research to understand the terms. They need to explain what they mean and how it is tested (e.g. why a child would score low on LNF if they know all their letters). And it said zilch about interventions at school even though my child scored as needing support.

Anyway I fail to see how this relates to the OP in any way.

[Anonymous]

It’s a fluency test. We explain that to parents. I’m sorry that you haven’t received the same communication. Even if your child knows all of the letter names, they may not know them fluently. They have one minute for each of these subtests. Good news is that fluency is easy to practice with them at home. I teach my parents how to do it and it’s quick too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a fluency test. We explain that to parents. I’m sorry that you haven’t received the same communication. Even if your child knows all of the letter names, they may not know them fluently. They have one minute for each of these subtests. Good news is that fluency is easy to practice with them at home. I teach my parents how to do it and it’s quick too.

Yeah I learned this when I did some additional digging. So no, the report wasn't clear.

Anyway what does this have to do with the OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl. Or maybe he was super shy and the teacher wanted to rule that out. Either way though the teacher should have emailed you about it. Anyway you should never feel stupid asking for clarification about your child’s education! That’s absolutely your job.

This.

Not just shyness, but using a limited vocabulary or not knowing concepts that a biased evaluator assumes a child fluent in English would know.

In most large districts, rising kindergarten students who speak a language other than English are referred for testing to a welcome center with evaluators who have no relation to the individual school and whose expertise and entire jobs is testing. Otherwise, students are not referred unless they are new to the country.

Nevertheless the pp is right, the education system is complex and districts vary and parents should always ask questions or have things clarified so they understand what is happening with their child clearly.

Not all school districts do this and if they do they should tell parents on the form that if they disclose another language spoken at home their child will be assessed. There is no constitutional requirement for school systems to do this when the family says they ALSO speak English and that English is the primary language spoken at home. But in the US foreign languages are considered a deficit instead of an asset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you write on the intake form whether ‘any other languages are spoken at home’ then they evaluate the child for esl.

This is the answer.

OP - Yes evaluate is fine, but if he passed the test then why the pullouts all year?

Pullouts are a GOOD thing. He's getting help with reading.

To quote a great movie,
"What's your damage, Heather?"

Pullouts are BAD if the child doesn’t need them (and sometimes bad even if the child is behind in the subject).

And the term "pullout" suggests the student is missing some instruction in the gen ed classroom. Our only pullouts occur during scheduled small group time where every student works with a teacher on their level. All students receive tier 1 instruction as a whole group in math, ELA, phonics, writing, science/social studies.

… first of all, it is definitely not true that pullouts only happen during “small group” time. Schools are under no obligation to coordinate like that to minimize loss of instruction time and in my experience, they don’t.

Second of all, if the kid does not need ESL, then an ESL small group is not on their level.

In my district it is a policy not to remove students from content area classes except for level 1 newcomers during ELA. Most ESOL teachers pull students from the personalized learning time for instruction so they don’t miss any content.

This is backwards. Then how do they learn the content if they are ESL? And what are they missing in the personalized time if they don’t need ESL but you are pulling them?

How do they learn the content? Their classroom teachers implement the supports indicated on their accommodations/modifications form. Some examples from kindergarten are repeated directions, pre-teaching vocabulary, small group teaching, preferential seating, etc. ESOL teachers also do push-in during content time for support.

Personalized learning time is when every student works on what they need. Some students are retaught concepts or skills they missed on recent assessments, some are pulled for GAL (gifted and advanced learners) projects, some receive their pull out services on their IEP. I only pull ESOL students during this time and I usually pull the few students who need a lot more support. Most students get what they need from the small group time early in the day.

Again - a child with NO ESOL NEEDS by definition does not need the ESOL pullouts in whatever context that happens - small group time, individual learning or actual pullouts. They should be doing exactly what a similarly situated white/American kid would be doing during that time.

Fine by me but if your kid needs extra help, they most likely won't get it from the classroom teacher. The classroom teachers' small groups tend to be the on and above grade level groups. The ESOL teacher, special ed teacher and interventionist (who isn't an actual teacher, just paid by the hour to follow a scripted program) are the ones who do the below grade level small groups.

Why are parents finding out about these "below grade level small groups" months and months later from their kids?

We send home DIBELS scores three times per year with a letter explaining that students will be working in small groups on targeted skills. No idea how many parents read the letter and look at the results. I’ve never had a parent complain about their kid getting the extra help they need.

So you don't inform parents when their child is reading below grade level?

??? We send home the scores which lets parents know whether their child is below, on, or above grade level.

The DIBELS reports I've seen do not use that language and it doesn't match up with what the report card says (e.g. Says a child "needs support" while report card says they are on level). It is super confusing.

The parent report we send home is pretty clear. Plus we send it home prior to the first parent conference in the fall so we can go over it when parents come in (if they do). The report says the overall score and whether or not the child has met the benchmark goal for that time of year. It also gives that same information for each subtest. Here’s an example report (scroll down to Home Connect):

https://www.sau11.nh.gov/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=4377019&type=d&pREC_ID=2593300

Yeah, I've gotten this report and it's not clear at all. I had to do additional research to understand the terms. They need to explain what they mean and how it is tested (e.g. why a child would score low on LNF if they know all their letters). And it said zilch about interventions at school even though my child scored as needing support.

Anyway I fail to see how this relates to the OP in any way.

The teachers at our school sent the results along, but explained that we would be contacted IF our kids need any additional interventions. The teachers also explained that DIBELS was only one criteria used, and a score of “needs intervention” on one section (for example) does not necessarily indicate that your child needs additional services. Which seemed to make sense at the time.