Things I can’t say IRL. I am in a DV group for women

[Anonymous]

I’ve come to believe a not insubstantial number of these women - maybe 10 percent overall- are the abusive ones themselves and/or lying or exaggerating about their abuse. There is a real strain of histrionics with some of them and it makes my skin crawl. They have found supportive groups like the one I’m in where they can feel validated and wrap themselves in victimhood, ignoring any personal accountability for their lives.

I dont know how to deal with them in our group events. Ignore?

[Anonymous]

How do you know they're lying or exaggerating the abuse?

[Anonymous]

It’s entirely possible you’re right OP. I think any self-help group has some fakers in it. Just try to ignore them.

[Anonymous]

Oh man, that sucks. If it were me, I'd try to remember that these women are mentally unwell. Because no "normal" person would make up stories of DV. So it is likely that these women did actually suffer some sort of trauma or abuse if they are acting that way.

Still, any past trauma or abuse doesn't negate the harm they are doing now. So I would either ignore, or gently try to hold them accountable (while realizing that they may not be mentally well enough to change).

I had a situation in college where a friend made up a story of sexual assault. It was hard because of course you want to believe your friend, but the lies got grander and grander and it was CLEAR she was lying. (She was accusing someone who never met her, lived in a different town, physically couldn't have had contact with her, but she had become fixated on him). So we gently confronted her and ultimately got her some help because she was mentally unwell. If we hadn't, she very well could've smeared the name of an innocent person.

[Anonymous]

It's also possible they're both victims and perpetrators. Just ignore them.

[Anonymous]

It’s possible they are actual victims but stuck in their healing - their identity is as victim and they can get past it to “survivor” or even “human who had one abusive relationship.” If you see it as incomplete healing, is that easier for you to handle?

[Anonymous]

Are you seeing them as exaggerating as a way of minimizing the trauma of your experience? To avoid confronting it in its full reality or to avoid feeling weak?

[Anonymous]

My experience isn't made up, OP. But I have also been abusive, as a response to his abuse. There comes a point in a toxic relationship where it brings you down to the same level. You can't always go high, because sometimes you're cornered and you need to fight (verbally or physically).

I know two women who lied about being abused by their relatives or their spouse. They were both in full-blown paranoid episodes stemming from psychiatric treatment refusal. They both had a bipolar disorder diagnoses. Maybe there was also something else going on, who knows. Psychiatry is not an exact science and there is still plenty we don't know.

I also note that "abuse" encompasses a great many things, minor and/or major. Some humans verbalize or otherwise exteriorize their feelings a lot more than others.

***There is little relation between how much a person expresses their pain and how much pain they actually felt!***

And there is no way to know.

So we should focus on the path to economic and psychiatric recovery. Both are quantifiable, objective measures. It's all we can do.

[Anonymous]

I know what you're saying, OP. Someone can be a victim and an absolutely toxic individual who abuses in their own way. My sister couldn't walk away from an opportunity to get in a physical confrontation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience isn't made up, OP. But I have also been abusive, as a response to his abuse. There comes a point in a toxic relationship where it brings you down to the same level. You can't always go high, because sometimes you're cornered and you need to fight (verbally or physically).

I know two women who lied about being abused by their relatives or their spouse. They were both in full-blown paranoid episodes stemming from psychiatric treatment refusal. They both had a bipolar disorder diagnoses. Maybe there was also something else going on, who knows. Psychiatry is not an exact science and there is still plenty we don't know.

I also note that "abuse" encompasses a great many things, minor and/or major. Some humans verbalize or otherwise exteriorize their feelings a lot more than others.

***There is little relation between how much a person expresses their pain and how much pain they actually felt!***

And there is no way to know.

So we should focus on the path to economic and psychiatric recovery. Both are quantifiable, objective measures. It's all we can do.

welll …. I’d argue that if you think it was a “mutual abuse” situation, you shouldn’t be in a DV groups for women who may geniunely fear for their lives and experienced much more severe abuse. This isn’t to say that fighting back at times means the woman wasn’t the victim or that she has to be perfect. But it does mean that if you didn’t experience actual domination and control you should bow out of a DV group.

My exEH engaged in some “mild” abusive behavior (grabbing my phone, blocking me from leaving, one time when he followed me around a mall demanding an apology). And a lot of lower key control through escalating verbal tactics. But I’m not a “DV victim” and would never join a DV group for women actual beaten by their partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’ve come to believe a not insubstantial number of these women - maybe 10 percent overall- are the abusive ones themselves and/or lying or exaggerating about their abuse. There is a real strain of histrionics with some of them and it makes my skin crawl. They have found supportive groups like the one I’m in where they can feel validated and wrap themselves in victimhood, ignoring any personal accountability for their lives.

I dont know how to deal with them in our group events. Ignore?

Given that you are in the group one assumes you are a survivor. Given this, consider how easy you have just proven it to be for those not affected to doubt anyone/everyone who claims to be a survivor.

Stop assuming you know how one person's abuse and trauma impacts their behavior and concentrate on your own healing.

You do not help anyone by fixating on whether others are believable or not. It's not your job nor your responsibility.

Offer support and receive it, otherwise get out of the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’ve come to believe a not insubstantial number of these women - maybe 10 percent overall- are the abusive ones themselves and/or lying or exaggerating about their abuse. There is a real strain of histrionics with some of them and it makes my skin crawl. They have found supportive groups like the one I’m in where they can feel validated and wrap themselves in victimhood, ignoring any personal accountability for their lives.

I dont know how to deal with them in our group events. Ignore?

Given that you are in the group one assumes you are a survivor. Given this, consider how easy you have just proven it to be for those not affected to doubt anyone/everyone who claims to be a survivor.

Stop assuming you know how one person's abuse and trauma impacts their behavior and concentrate on your own healing.

You do not help anyone by fixating on whether others are believable or not. It's not your job nor your responsibility.

Offer support and receive it, otherwise get out of the group.

I provide valuable resources for the group and we help a lot of people. I’m not leaving. That’s why there is a challenge in dealing with people who join who are disruptive and who quickly involve themselves in conflicts with others in the group, who are caught misrepresenting things repeatedly, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience isn't made up, OP. But I have also been abusive, as a response to his abuse. There comes a point in a toxic relationship where it brings you down to the same level. You can't always go high, because sometimes you're cornered and you need to fight (verbally or physically).

I know two women who lied about being abused by their relatives or their spouse. They were both in full-blown paranoid episodes stemming from psychiatric treatment refusal. They both had a bipolar disorder diagnoses. Maybe there was also something else going on, who knows. Psychiatry is not an exact science and there is still plenty we don't know.

I also note that "abuse" encompasses a great many things, minor and/or major. Some humans verbalize or otherwise exteriorize their feelings a lot more than others.

***There is little relation between how much a person expresses their pain and how much pain they actually felt!***

And there is no way to know.

So we should focus on the path to economic and psychiatric recovery. Both are quantifiable, objective measures. It's all we can do.

Yes, totally agree with your first point. Reactive abuse is real. Unfortunately these people exhibit disorder in other areas. It’s hard to know how to not let them disrupt others in the group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you seeing them as exaggerating as a way of minimizing the trauma of your experience? To avoid confronting it in its full reality or to avoid feeling weak?

Unclear. Likely they have mental health issues. We are a very supportive group and we typically don’t vet people as we feel people are entitled to their perspective and their experiences, but these are extreme cases where it quickly becomes apparent that there is something very off about them and their claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience isn't made up, OP. But I have also been abusive, as a response to his abuse. There comes a point in a toxic relationship where it brings you down to the same level. You can't always go high, because sometimes you're cornered and you need to fight (verbally or physically).

I know two women who lied about being abused by their relatives or their spouse. They were both in full-blown paranoid episodes stemming from psychiatric treatment refusal. They both had a bipolar disorder diagnoses. Maybe there was also something else going on, who knows. Psychiatry is not an exact science and there is still plenty we don't know.

I also note that "abuse" encompasses a great many things, minor and/or major. Some humans verbalize or otherwise exteriorize their feelings a lot more than others.

***There is little relation between how much a person expresses their pain and how much pain they actually felt!***

And there is no way to know.

So we should focus on the path to economic and psychiatric recovery. Both are quantifiable, objective measures. It's all we can do.

welll …. I’d argue that if you think it was a “mutual abuse” situation, you shouldn’t be in a DV groups for women who may geniunely fear for their lives and experienced much more severe abuse. This isn’t to say that fighting back at times means the woman wasn’t the victim or that she has to be perfect. But it does mean that if you didn’t experience actual domination and control you should bow out of a DV group.

My exEH engaged in some “mild” abusive behavior (grabbing my phone, blocking me from leaving, one time when he followed me around a mall demanding an apology). And a lot of lower key control through escalating verbal tactics. But I’m not a “DV victim” and would never join a DV group for women actual beaten by their partners.

DV is far, far more than being "actually beaten" by their partners. Come on, we know this. That is not the threshold and it causes harm to suggest that unless you are "actually beaten" you aren't experiencing abuse or other types of violence.
That may be OP's mindset, which is causing this reaction, I don't know. I don't know the intricacies of anyone's abuse story, and neither does OP.
I find it incredibly distasteful for OP to decide she knows this to such a degree she would post about it. Focus on yourself. If group work doesn't work for you, do individual work. But you don't get to control other people's stories, healing, even perspective on their own lives.