New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Serious question for you and other remote workers:

Did you really believe remote would last forever? I teleworked for a few months during covid and then went back to work. I never in my wildest dreams thought that working from home would go on forever. I knew deep down that senior leadership hated it and wanted people back and they were going to make it happen one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The 6:00 am start time to beat traffic was super common when I worked at the Pentagon in the late 90s. Also tons of people who did slug lines, which I am not sure even exist anymore ?

I'm unhappy that we will be causing so much needless air pollution with all this extra traffic. Besides that, I don't really care where anyone works.

Late 90s?

This was common until March 2020 when Covid sent everyone home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Serious question for you and other remote workers:

Did you really believe remote would last forever? I teleworked for a few months during covid and then went back to work. I never in my wildest dreams thought that working from home would go on forever. I knew deep down that senior leadership hated it and wanted people back and they were going to make it happen one way or another.

This question was asked and answered several times in this thread and others on this board. Why do you keep asking it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Some will some won’t, since there aren’t enough private firms to absorb all of the workforce in DC. Some of us will move to other cities, some of us will start our own business consulting, etc. none of that’s good for the American people. The best will leave if they can’t have some flexibility. Do you want that? And why?

The best people tend to be mission driven and resilient. Unlikely they will leave so quickly. The best people tend to be focused on the big picture and the long game. They can endure a rocky 4 years. Everyone is replaceable even if we like to think we aren’t. Many young college graduates are chomping at the bit to replace older folk. A wave of retirements might be a boost to the under thirty crowd

I’m trying to remind myself that I have always been this type of Fed. But the mission of helping “the American people” is quickly losing its luster. I’ll have to envision an idealized version of the people we serve to keep my focus.

+1

Also those of us who are good performers have families to consider. I’m not going to martyr myself for the next 4 years for an administration that is hostile toward its employees, may water down the value of our retirements, and take away my flexibility to have time with my kids instead of commuting.

Yes a lot of Feds care about their agency mission, but it’s still a job and they wouldn’t be here if not getting paid. At what point is the compensation not worth the stress anymore? There aren’t a ton of top performers willing to go down with the ship despite what some anonymous internet poster wants to be true. Also the under 40 crowd is looking for an exit strategy as they still have 20-30 years left of their careers. They are absolutely not chomping at the bit to be flogged by politicians in the hopes that in the long run there will be opportunity to move up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

What's your point? It happened to me many times. I've also changed jobs a few times and had to change my commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

What's your point? It happened to me many times. I've also changed jobs a few times and had to change my commute.

Thanks for sharing. No one cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

What's your point? It happened to me many times. I've also changed jobs a few times and had to change my commute.

Thanks for sharing. No one cares.

Cool story.

I'll see on you and everyone else on the road every morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

What's your point? It happened to me many times. I've also changed jobs a few times and had to change my commute.

Thanks for sharing. No one cares.

Cool story.

I'll see on you and everyone else on the road every morning.

Learn English first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Pp should imagine how well they would like if their job suddenly moved offices to the other side of town. I think that gets to the crux of the issue here.

What's your point? It happened to me many times. I've also changed jobs a few times and had to change my commute.

The thing about changing a job is you're making the decision to make this work in your life.

But if you have "many times" been told you have two weeks to commute an additional three hours a day, I think that's actually rare and weird and you have my sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Donating blood to leave work early is wild. That used to be a thing?

DP. No, my dad worked in business and donated blood (he was type O-);because it is a good thing to do. Not to leave work early.

Civic mindedness is a foreign concept to some people nowadays.

You literally just said they donated “in order to leave” early.

Now it’s because it’s a good thing to do? Way to change the narrative.

Also, my dad was in sales and management, and had to travel every week for work, sometimes he was gone for weeks at a time. No one in the private sector would routinely be gone from their families 4+ nights/week now that so much can be done remotely with technology.

I don’t know why anyone would want to go backward like this — it’s kind of pathetic to me that you suggest sad 5-day per week, 5 am van pools from the exurbs as a reasonable alternative to telework (even hybrid). Let’s just go back to typewriters while we’re at it. Plenty of work used to get done on those!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

Many of us were hired with telework. That was literally part of the employment package we were offered. We compared the combination of salary + flexibility + benefits against other job offers and elected this role. I have never in over a decade been in an office 5 days per week at my agency.

Also no one is complaining about showing up. I’ve shown up daily at my job for years, at my alternate duty station usually around 3 days per week and in an office 2 days per week.

So no one is complaining about showing up to their jobs — it’s about having collective bargaining agreements unilaterally discarded and taking away a part of our overall compensation package for no business reason, simply because a billionaire thinks it’s fun to do and hopes we quit.

[Anonymous]

Classic millennial behavior. What’d you think was gonna happen when core millennials reached 35+? That they’d roll their sleeves up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal workers are soft. Most of America reports to work every day and get fired if they don't show up for work.

Not my wealthy Arlington neighbors. They’re all working from home several days per week in finance, big law, consulting, etc.

I know a number of Amazon workers and can confirm they are not actually back in an office 5 days per week. They pushed back and the company relented, and when they go in they also work part of the day from home.

All of the posters insisting most of America works in an office full time must not be familiar with the norms of white collared knowledge work for employees with graduate and professional degrees.

Let those of us who are actually in this type of sector have our thread for adult conversation and you can go back to whatever miserable cave you live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

Serious question for you and other remote workers:

Did you really believe remote would last forever? I teleworked for a few months during covid and then went back to work. I never in my wildest dreams thought that working from home would go on forever. I knew deep down that senior leadership hated it and wanted people back and they were going to make it happen one way or another.

You worked from home for a few months. Some of us have worked from home (at least a few days per week) for 10-15 + years and have collective bargaining agreements, negotiated with agency management, in place allowing us to do so.

So yeah, we did think this would continue. A president who unilaterally violates labor laws through the use of an EO and is gleefully taunting his own executive branch employees into quitting was not on my bingo card. Stop acting like any of this is normal.