New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Some will some won’t, since there aren’t enough private firms to absorb all of the workforce in DC. Some of us will move to other cities, some of us will start our own business consulting, etc. none of that’s good for the American people. The best will leave if they can’t have some flexibility. Do you want that? And why?

The best people tend to be mission driven and resilient. Unlikely they will leave so quickly. The best people tend to be focused on the big picture and the long game. They can endure a rocky 4 years. Everyone is replaceable even if we like to think we aren’t. Many young college graduates are chomping at the bit to replace older folk. A wave of retirements might be a boost to the under thirty crowd

I’m trying to remind myself that I have always been this type of Fed. But the mission of helping “the American people” is quickly losing its luster. I’ll have to envision an idealized version of the people we serve to keep my focus.

+1

Also those of us who are good performers have families to consider. I’m not going to martyr myself for the next 4 years for an administration that is hostile toward its employees, may water down the value of our retirements, and take away my flexibility to have time with my kids instead of commuting.

Yes a lot of Feds care about their agency mission, but it’s still a job and they wouldn’t be here if not getting paid. At what point is the compensation not worth the stress anymore? There aren’t a ton of top performers willing to go down with the ship despite what some anonymous internet poster wants to be true. Also the under 40 crowd is looking for an exit strategy as they still have 20-30 years left of their careers. They are absolutely not chomping at the bit to be flogged by politicians in the hopes that in the long run there will be opportunity to move up.

Honestly, the only people who will be left in the government are the exact people the general American public loathes. The ones who are the bottom feeders, well into their 60s and 70s and wont get a job in private, and those who generally don't know what the F to do to be productive. So good luck with that! And, now, add to this that most top-performing feds will come with a ton of REALLY valuable experience in law, to policy, to funding, to execution (you could say feds suck in IT but that is about it), and we'll be aiming for those mediocre performers in the private sector, you're about to get RIF'd cuz there's fresh blood in the market that'll bring a whole lot more to the game than you can ever possibly imagine. ... Especially if you're spending most of your day on this board trolling on why feds won't hack it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Some will some won’t, since there aren’t enough private firms to absorb all of the workforce in DC. Some of us will move to other cities, some of us will start our own business consulting, etc. none of that’s good for the American people. The best will leave if they can’t have some flexibility. Do you want that? And why?

The best people tend to be mission driven and resilient. Unlikely they will leave so quickly. The best people tend to be focused on the big picture and the long game. They can endure a rocky 4 years. Everyone is replaceable even if we like to think we aren’t. Many young college graduates are chomping at the bit to replace older folk. A wave of retirements might be a boost to the under thirty crowd

I’m trying to remind myself that I have always been this type of Fed. But the mission of helping “the American people” is quickly losing its luster. I’ll have to envision an idealized version of the people we serve to keep my focus.

+1

Also those of us who are good performers have families to consider. I’m not going to martyr myself for the next 4 years for an administration that is hostile toward its employees, may water down the value of our retirements, and take away my flexibility to have time with my kids instead of commuting.

Yes a lot of Feds care about their agency mission, but it’s still a job and they wouldn’t be here if not getting paid. At what point is the compensation not worth the stress anymore? There aren’t a ton of top performers willing to go down with the ship despite what some anonymous internet poster wants to be true. Also the under 40 crowd is looking for an exit strategy as they still have 20-30 years left of their careers. They are absolutely not chomping at the bit to be flogged by politicians in the hopes that in the long run there will be opportunity to move up.

Honestly, the only people who will be left in the government are the exact people the general American public loathes. The ones who are the bottom feeders, well into their 60s and 70s and wont get a job in private, and those who generally don't know what the F to do to be productive. So good luck with that! And, now, add to this that most top-performing feds will come with a ton of REALLY valuable experience in law, to policy, to funding, to execution (you could say feds suck in IT but that is about it), and we'll be aiming for those mediocre performers in the private sector, you're about to get RIF'd cuz there's fresh blood in the market that'll bring a whole lot more to the game than you can ever possibly imagine. ... Especially if you're spending most of your day on this board trolling on why feds won't hack it.

The private sector is already impacted and will continue to be impacted by this dysfunction. Contractors don’t know what’s going on and companies that service government contracts - across industries - are going to feel this dysfunction. And then companies that work with those companies will feel it. It will be the Great Contraction. I’m less worried about a fed taking my job in the private sector than I am about losing my job when our entire economy tanks. And less regulation and fewer checks are not good for business when waste, fraud, and abuse are a result, to say nothing of the fact that private industry requires a stable government and public to sector to thrive.

Private industry assumed Trump would be business rational, but what his administration is doing right now is irrational and it’s going to start having consequential impacts. The people creating chaos need to pump the breaks. This is too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is 830-5 significantly different than 9-5?

My 13 month old wakes up at 7:30 and goes to bed at 7:30. I have a 35 minute commute. So a 9-5 means I can spend almost an hour with her in the morning, most of that when she’s happy and fed, and a little less than two hours with her at night when she’s exhausted and quite honestly pretty fussy from a day of daycare. 8:30-5 just gets rid of the morning entirely. The 25 minutes I’ll get with her will be just changing her diaper, nursing her, and getting her dressed.

I have to do daycare pickup, so the latest I can stay at work is 5:15 to provide some wiggle room in case there are metro issues. Daycare closes at 6. Husband does pickup because he is at a FAANG and works past 6 most days.

Do lots of people put in these types of hours? Yes. But that’s not the job I was hired for, not the job I applied to, and not the job my life accommodates right now. I was hired at a job that would let me arrive at 9 am, leave at 4:30 pm, and finish up later at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

If you saw them, were you working? Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

Don't defend them. No one should be surfing or playing pickleball at 1000 if they're a fed employee on telework.

Feds doing things like playing pickleball or surfing during the workday is why telework got taken away. I'm a career fed and I was more than a little annoyed at what my coworkers would tell me they do during the workday.

[Anonymous]

Federal employees with kids under 5 have in choosing their childcare arrangements always had some telework flexibility. Federal employees now with older kids only had full-time or near full-time office requirements during the prime daycare and early elementary years. A lot of people can routinely do ballpark 7 hours in the office but cannot with their current setup and commute do 8.5. Its a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

I'll assume that this is true and not a troll. 10 AM Hawaii time is 3 PM eastern time. That would actually work at my agency. My agency has core hours that end at 3 PM. So assuming people are working their full 8.5-hour day that includes all of the core hours, it would be acceptable to go do something else at 3 PM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

I'll assume that this is true and not a troll. 10 AM Hawaii time is 3 PM eastern time. That would actually work at my agency. My agency has core hours that end at 3 PM. So assuming people are working their full 8.5-hour day that includes all of the core hours, it would be acceptable to go do something else at 3 PM.

What?

Your core hours aren't based on DC time in Hawaii (at least for the DOD which is where all of them worked). It's based on local time. The feds working day shift were supposed to be online during core hours of 1000-1500 if they were maxiflex and working day shift.

I worked a different shift which is why I could go do things during the workday. These people should have been working but weren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

+1 They are working their full schedule. Why do these people care which exact hours they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

Don't defend them. No one should be surfing or playing pickleball at 1000 if they're a fed employee on telework.

Feds doing things like playing pickleball or surfing during the workday is why telework got taken away. I'm a career fed and I was more than a little annoyed at what my coworkers would tell me they do during the workday.

The only reason it is being taken away is to make many people quit quickly. Although I agree that there should be prevention of abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

Don't defend them. No one should be surfing or playing pickleball at 1000 if they're a fed employee on telework.

Feds doing things like playing pickleball or surfing during the workday is why telework got taken away. I'm a career fed and I was more than a little annoyed at what my coworkers would tell me they do during the workday.

So they can’t surf of Friday if they completed 40 hours M-T and have F off because it is your work day? Are you ok with people golfing on a Monday like our President? Do you think the solution is dissolution of Maxi-flex and AWS to foreclose any perception of impropriety? If my coworkers are holding their weight and actually working their agreed upon hours per day, I don’t care what they do in their legitimate off time or break time. Telework was taken as another tool in the playbook of division and chaos but ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

I'll assume that this is true and not a troll. 10 AM Hawaii time is 3 PM eastern time. That would actually work at my agency. My agency has core hours that end at 3 PM. So assuming people are working their full 8.5-hour day that includes all of the core hours, it would be acceptable to go do something else at 3 PM.

What?

Your core hours aren't based on DC time in Hawaii (at least for the DOD which is where all of them worked). It's based on local time. The feds working day shift were supposed to be online during core hours of 1000-1500 if they were maxiflex and working day shift.

I worked a different shift which is why I could go do things during the workday. These people should have been working but weren't.

DP: This whole conversation highlights a dumb issue that some people thought was important enough to let this new administration come in and burn it all down. Absolutely maddening stupidity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, I’m happy because the pickleball courts will now be open during the workday. Can’t count the number of “remote workers” I play with regularly in Arlington.

+1

I just moved from Hawaii to DMV and the amount of Fed teleworking employees I'd see surfing everyday at 1000 was absurd. And before anyone says it, I knew they were feds because I worked in the same place as them.

Everyone knows there were tons of people abusing the system.

Maxi-flex is a thing, maybe they worked from 6-10 and 4-8. Still 8 hours but explains their midday activity. Either way, you don’t have facts. You just have opinions.

Don't defend them. No one should be surfing or playing pickleball at 1000 if they're a fed employee on telework.

Feds doing things like playing pickleball or surfing during the workday is why telework got taken away. I'm a career fed and I was more than a little annoyed at what my coworkers would tell me they do during the workday.

So they can’t surf of Friday if they completed 40 hours M-T and have F off because it is your work day? Are you ok with people golfing on a Monday like our President? Do you think the solution is dissolution of Maxi-flex and AWS to foreclose any perception of impropriety? If my coworkers are holding their weight and actually working their agreed upon hours per day, I don’t care what they do in their legitimate off time or break time. Telework was taken as another tool in the playbook of division and chaos but ok.

Don't defend bad behavior.

We all sign something saying we will be online during telework during core hours. Going and surfing or playing pickleball during those hours is violating that agreement. I've been a fed for almost 20 years and have NEVER seen an telework agreement that said you can work whatever hours you want whenever you want.