New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

One week in and still crickets from my agency under Commerce. I hear the agency has been instructed not to send out any mass emails until after Wednesday. The only communication we've received (besides the DoC message) has been from a branch chief saying try're still evaluating what it means for us. That is, of course, a lie.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

What fantasy world do you live in? Tell me you’ve never worked in the private sector without telling me. Private does not pay better for someone with your skills. Also the vast vast vast majority of private companies do not allow telework.

This (unfortunately)

..is a lie. FIFY. Private sector indeed pays better and offers better flexibility if I can find a job. Which could be an issue given that the local market is about to be flooded with people fleeing government. I serve because I believe that I am helping the American people, and the stability and flexibility has always made up for the lower pay. It’s been a nice career. I’m disappointed to see things go this way.

It is not a great market. That is why so many companies have been able to RTO over the past few years while keeping salaries stagnant and cutting pandemic-era perks and benefits. Many people are staying put and grinding it out because there is nothing better out there.

I meant to add that you should certainly try to find something better, but you should also manage your expectations about private sector opportunities being much better.

They’ll be better because they are driven by their bottom line to retain the best employees, and will offer better terms of employment than the government offers to attract top talent. Government doesn’t appear to want to keep top talent anymore.

I work for a large private employer and we’ve done a RIF about every other month for the last year and a half. None of the posters on here would survive in the private sector. You’d all die of a crippling panic attack day 2 on the job.

Oh honey, I was at Lehman in 2007 in IB, you know nothing.

[Anonymous]

Donating blood to leave work early is wild. That used to be a thing?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Some will some won’t, since there aren’t enough private firms to absorb all of the workforce in DC. Some of us will move to other cities, some of us will start our own business consulting, etc. none of that’s good for the American people. The best will leave if they can’t have some flexibility. Do you want that? And why?

The best people tend to be mission driven and resilient. Unlikely they will leave so quickly. The best people tend to be focused on the big picture and the long game. They can endure a rocky 4 years. Everyone is replaceable even if we like to think we aren’t. Many young college graduates are chomping at the bit to replace older folk. A wave of retirements might be a boost to the under thirty crowd

It's always been incredibly difficult to recruit recent grads. Tech companies pay much better than the government does. Even universities pay better.

The tech companies are RTO and many are doing RTO to reduce numbers/forced quitting and hiring freezes. There are not as many jobs as people think.

They have in-person requirements, but not 5 days/week. And there are some fully remote positions, too.

This. The norm is 3-4 days RTO for maybe 6 hours each day (with more work in the evening at home, of course). If the government tries to mandate 8.5 hours in-office, that will impose more hardship than 5 days/week for a lot of people.

Amazon is 5 days, Meta varies but is mostly hybrid, and most other tech companies are at least 4 days for revenue generating/product functions with 2-3 days being more the norm for non-revenue generating functions. I would push back on 6 hours being standard though. 9-5 is standard. Someone would be looked askance at if they were in the office from 9-3 everyday and eventually there manager would have a “read the room” discussion with them. That said, I have colleagues in the Bay Area who were told they could be remote when they started so now that they are expected to come in there is more flexibility to leave early, especially with Bay Area traffic.

Amazon’s 5 day is a four hour per day requirement. And 9-5 is different than 8:30-5 when you have kids who sleep 12 hours a night.

LOL Amazon is more flexible than the Federal government. We live in dumb times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I worked really hard to get to a point in life where my existence doesn't have to be this miserable. Driving a 5:00 am vanpool from some crappy exurb?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I worked really hard to get to a point in life where my existence doesn't have to be this miserable. Driving a 5:00 am vanpool from some crappy exurb?

+1 People tell stories like this and expect us to "stop whining". If you van-pooled at 5am and had to donate blood to get some time off, your life sucked! I can't believe there are people who think this is ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Donating blood to leave work early is wild. That used to be a thing?

DP. No, my dad worked in business and donated blood (he was type O-);because it is a good thing to do. Not to leave work early.

Civic mindedness is a foreign concept to some people nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Donating blood to leave work early is wild. That used to be a thing?

DP. No, my dad worked in business and donated blood (he was type O-);because it is a good thing to do. Not to leave work early.

Civic mindedness is a foreign concept to some people nowadays.

Wow, I bet you would feel differently about getting to leave work two hours early and skip traffic as an incentive to donate blood if you drove a vanpool at 5:00 am back and forth from a crappy suburb to downtown DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

Don’t read the thread if it bothers you.

[Anonymous]

The 6:00 am start time to beat traffic was super common when I worked at the Pentagon in the late 90s. Also tons of people who did slug lines, which I am not sure even exist anymore ?

I'm unhappy that we will be causing so much needless air pollution with all this extra traffic. Besides that, I don't really care where anyone works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad worked for the fed govt in the 80s and 90s and left our house at 5:00 am to drive a vanpool van from PWC to DC. He would
be home around 4 pm, except once a
month when then whole vanpool donated blood in order to get to leave work two hours early. This was a normal commuting schedule in our MC neighborhood for federal workers.

I am/was one of those. I can't telework because my jobs don't allow it. I never have.

This whole thread is bizarre to me. I can't imagine complaining about having to show up to a job that you were hired for. How did we get so screwed up that people complain about having to work in person?

It's not the job I was hired for. The job I was hired for was remote. If you're having trouble understanding, imagine you took a job and then you were told you had a couple of weeks to add three hours of daily commuting to your schedule. You can do it, just maybe close your eyes for a second and really concentrate if you're struggling with it.

[Anonymous]

Federal workers are soft. Most of America reports to work every day and get fired if they don't show up for work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal workers are soft. Most of America reports to work every day and get fired if they don't show up for work.

Private sector has more remote work than the feds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal workers are soft. Most of America reports to work every day and get fired if they don't show up for work.

Feds show up and work every day also - some are assigned to an office, others to other locations. If your boss changes your working conditions even though there’s a lawful contract in place and says he’s doing it for spite, wouldn’t you be angry and seek redress? In the meantime, of course Feds will go to the office, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t fight.