Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

What on earth. I stayed at home until my kids were each 2 (because I wanted to give them and myself a European style maternity leave). During that time, I actually was with them for the vast majority of the day (and near them at night). I know exactly how much more it was than working parents, because My husband, who worked in an office, saw them a tiny fraction of that time (breakfast and then 6-8, when I was also home). The working parents trying to make the claim that it's even are truly deranged. It's not even close.

(Just to add my experience, my kids then went to play school at age 2 from 9-12 and then took a long nap at home in the afternoon, and bc we live in DC they started full day preschool at 3. And I worked when they were at playschool and then school).

It’s amazing to me how many women post something like this almost as a brag.

I made my husband work so many hours that he never ever ever ever ever saw his own child so that I could be there the whole time.

Instead of, I was not with my child for about four hours a day because I really wanted my husband to not have to take that job they made him never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. See his child.

Girl That is not an accomplishment that is sad and slightly abusive to your husband

What? Her DH was with the kids for breakfast in the morning and then home by 6 at night. It sounds like he probably worked a typical 9-5ish office job with a commute. That's abusive now? I just can't!

She said "tiny fraction of that time".. it's so sad and pathetic the lengths you will go to justify staying home even if it means your H is home a "tiny fraction of that time".

Doesn't sound like a partnership to me. Get off the dole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

What on earth. I stayed at home until my kids were each 2 (because I wanted to give them and myself a European style maternity leave). During that time, I actually was with them for the vast majority of the day (and near them at night). I know exactly how much more it was than working parents, because My husband, who worked in an office, saw them a tiny fraction of that time (breakfast and then 6-8, when I was also home). The working parents trying to make the claim that it's even are truly deranged. It's not even close.

(Just to add my experience, my kids then went to play school at age 2 from 9-12 and then took a long nap at home in the afternoon, and bc we live in DC they started full day preschool at 3. And I worked when they were at playschool and then school).

It’s amazing to me how many women post something like this almost as a brag.

I made my husband work so many hours that he never ever ever ever ever saw his own child so that I could be there the whole time.

Instead of, I was not with my child for about four hours a day because I really wanted my husband to not have to take that job they made him never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. See his child.

Girl That is not an accomplishment that is sad and slightly abusive to your husband

What? Her DH was with the kids for breakfast in the morning and then home by 6 at night. It sounds like he probably worked a typical 9-5ish office job with a commute. That's abusive now? I just can't!

She said "tiny fraction of that time".. it's so sad and pathetic the lengths you will go to justify staying home even if it means your H is home a "tiny fraction of that time".

Doesn't sound like a partnership to me. Get off the dole.

^ Doesn’t know what the dole is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

This is just not true.

+1. I can’t believe how many insecure moms are responding. Working and stay at home moms are not monolithic groups. Just because you know someone who does x does not mean that applies to all individuals in that group. The idea that working moms spend 30 minutes a day with their kids is as ludicrous as the idea that sahm spend 6 hours a day with their kids.

All of the insecure posts on here mostly directed as stay at home moms (I WFH) are insane though. Someone was offended that a poster said working moms gave up time with their kids and stay at home moms gave up status and financial security. And some crazed working mom wrote that she was insulted that someone would say working moms gave up time with their kids by working. I mean, how is it an insult to (checks notes) *state facts* unless you are so insecure that you can’t handle the truth.

So many women feel insulted by the “strangers raising my kid” comment because they feel that it is a personal attack on them and they are in complete denial about the fact that by working they spend less time with their children. Initially there were the people claiming they and their spouse worked full time and their child only had a nanny between 11-12 and 3-5 (because we all know it’s super common for children to take a three hour nap in the middle of the day from birth to five while you work and run errands🙄 and that so many nannies will accept a shambolic schedule) and since those ridiculous examples didn’t withstand scrutiny then it was the ad hominem “you dumb” after every valid argument and finally it’s this ridiculous argument that stay at home moms spend 6 hours with their kids a day (because if you’re a working parent in an office and your child naps it’s like you are right there taking care of them for all [insert unbelievably high made up number] hours they nap during the day, but if you’re a stay at home mom and your child naps you are not parenting them). It’s been illogical from the start but at this point it’s farcical too.

If you are talking about my post then you have reading comprehension issues because 1) I stated that my DH and I staggered schedules so that one left late and the other one came back early, 2) it was a 2-hour nap not 3 hours, and 3) We hired a nanny for 6 hours a day but she helped with housework when she wasn’t actively taking care of our kid.

And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child to take a 2-hour nap until age ~4 or so. Some don’t but most do.

So just call yourself a SAHM. What’s the difference?

Because I was not… I was a WOHM who made $200k+.

Why are you so antagonistic about this? It’s a good thing when working parents are able to flex their schedules to spend a ton of time with their kids. Maybe not as much as SAHPs (I didn’t claim to do so in my original post) but still a solid chunk so that they feel really connected with their kids.

Work out of home but spends the same amount of time at home. Ok.

I worked 11:15-6 in the office and he worked 8-4 in the office. I had a shorter commute, less demanding job, and lower salary than him. We both logged in for an hour or two every night.

Here’s your cookie. Nobody cares.

Maybe you think I am offended… but this comment just makes you sound petulant

You’re out of the home about 7 hours a day. Not sure why you’re engaging in arguments with SAHM about how much quality time you have at home.

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to goad someone into saying your brain has turned to mush?

My point was I (and my husband) could still work FT, with my kids in parental care the majority of their day.

So you saw your kids for like 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes at night and your husband never saw your kids in the morning. And you both patented solo and probably got docked financially at work for your weird hours in office and then you still worked 8:30-9:30 pm with your husband every night after your kids went to bed. Sounds like a miserable situation for everyone… Maybe one of you should have stayed home or used childcare so your lives weren’t so crazy. You must be very burnt out.

I saw my kids from 6-11am and 6:15-9pm. DH saw them from 5-9pm. My point was they were in the care of a parent for all but 11-5 (during which time they were napping for 2 hours anyway) and that made us happy because we wanted to prioritize their time with a parent!

Yes we were a little burnt out a bit from doing it, but it was temporary and enabled us long-term to grow our careers while still feeling super connected to our kids. Both of us received promotions (DH got a huge one) because our companies prioritized talent over facetime.

Overall we feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to have our cake and eat it too. I would encourage any parent who enjoys working to try pushing for flexible schedules before giving up and quitting.

I am not the poster with the neighbor, or the poster calculating and comparing how much time SAHMs spend with their kids (of course they spend more!). I am just stating what *I* did. The thought of being in competition with some SAHM is actually quite hilarious to me.

Your children woke up at 6 am and went to bed at 9 pm before they were even in K?

And then you and your husband worked for an hour every night after your children went to bed, so like 9:15-10:15 pm, before you cleaned up and got everything ready for the next day before waking up at like 5:15 to shower and get ready before the kids woke up at 6? What an insane schedule for your entire family.

While many working couples do not both have unicorn remote jobs that allow them to flex time in a way that allows them to work outside of standard hours that also correspond with their spouse’s job, usually jobs like this do not allow for growth. If someone needs your spouse at 4 or you at 8 am they can’t get ahold of you for hours. This entire set up is also predicated on your toddler and preschool aged children waking up at 6, going to bed at 9, and napping for two hours in the middle of the day and you and your husband using your evenings to put your kids to bed and work. The craziness of this schedule perfectly illustrates why so many people either have childcare for a standard workday or a parent stays at home.

Our nanny helped with cooking and housework during nap time. We paid a FT salary for only 30-35 hours a week, so she was happy to do it.

Look, you can try and poke 100 holes in my story that are not worth my time to refute. If it makes you happy to believe I am a) lying about my schedule b) was miserable during that time, or c) had a career that stalled, then go ahead and believe it.

But for any open-minded WOHMs out there who enjoy working and still want to find a way to spend more time with their kids, I would strongly recommend advocating for a more flexible schedule, before giving up and quitting. Yes, it requires some sacrifice of nighttime entertainment (very limited TV or phone scrolling for us!) but it was worth it because we spent a ton of time with our young kids while still growing our careers.

I'm a DP, and I don't think you're lying. Glad it worked out for you.

But, come on, your situation and posts are irrelevant and derailing. Why? Because they realistically apply to like no one, or maybe something like 0.0001% of dual FT WOHM households where both spouses have traditional office jobs. You must understand how exceedingly rare it is to be a couple where BOTH OF YOU could have those kind of alternate schedules and flexibility and not tank your careers. Your advice is really not going to apply to anyone, so it's annoying!

Also, you keep trickling in more information...like now it turns out you had to log back on for hours at night and pay your part-time nanny a full-time salary. Ugh, ugh, ugh!

FWIW, my kids are school-age now and I am able to work 7 to 3 two days a week which I arranged because those two days my one kid has an activity she is very passionate about that I need to get her to. My DH is senior enough that he can put the kids onto the bus at 8:20 those two days, getting into the office a little later, and it's ok. That's the kind of reasonable flexibility some folks should look into/test out! But me not starting my day everyday until 11:15 and him needing to leave the office everyday at 4 to relieve the nanny??? we would tank out careers no doubt! (And our jobs are not even that intense or big on "facetime".)

It’s extremely common now for parents to have flexible schedules and paternity leave.

OTOH, it’s about .000001% of the population who are SAHM who are not busy with everything but raising their kids during the day.

What’s it like to be really bad at both math and basic research? Your lack of skills in both are on display here as is your privilege.

If you and everyone you know is a fed please understand that you are not representative of 98% of the US workforce. 1.9% of the us workforce works for the federal government.

According to the NYT, 80% of working adults are at in person jobs and 20% are remote or hybrid, with those categories being roughly even. Parents do not “commonly” have flexible jobs by this metric.

24% of parents working in the private sector have access to some paid parental leave. And many men who have leave available to them do not take all of it due to stigma. 75% of working fathers take a week off and 16% take no time off.

And .000001% of the US population is 346. You think 346 people are stay at home moms?

For the sake of humanity I hope your job has zero data analysis or critical thinking requirements. My five year old is more capable of higher level thinking.

You didn't even recognize that I used your insane statistic as a hyperbole. I literally repeated your inane statement in reverse. Please I hope your job does not require reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

But with teachers and construction workers and farmers and nurses and cops and the plethora of workers you probably don't even know in person, not everybody is 9-5 in an office with a commute needing $330K/year to survive. There is a whole world out there in the exburbs and rural areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

What on earth. I stayed at home until my kids were each 2 (because I wanted to give them and myself a European style maternity leave). During that time, I actually was with them for the vast majority of the day (and near them at night). I know exactly how much more it was than working parents, because My husband, who worked in an office, saw them a tiny fraction of that time (breakfast and then 6-8, when I was also home). The working parents trying to make the claim that it's even are truly deranged. It's not even close.

(Just to add my experience, my kids then went to play school at age 2 from 9-12 and then took a long nap at home in the afternoon, and bc we live in DC they started full day preschool at 3. And I worked when they were at playschool and then school).

It’s amazing to me how many women post something like this almost as a brag.

I made my husband work so many hours that he never ever ever ever ever saw his own child so that I could be there the whole time.

Instead of, I was not with my child for about four hours a day because I really wanted my husband to not have to take that job they made him never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. See his child.

Girl That is not an accomplishment that is sad and slightly abusive to your husband

What? Her DH was with the kids for breakfast in the morning and then home by 6 at night. It sounds like he probably worked a typical 9-5ish office job with a commute. That's abusive now? I just can't!

Seriously! Now that working mom wants to claim that most other working mom's schedules are ABUSIVE. So basically, you can only do it exactly the way she did, no more and no less, or according to her YOU SUCK.

+1 And she's so clueless she doesn't even realize how insulting her post was to the MANY WOMEN who probably work a similar schedule.

DP
It's tone deaf and immature (especially the idea of some woman forcing their spouse without his own volition) but still not as bad as the "dual ultra high income" solves all the problems because you just outsource everything, but that person didn't stick around after looking down on the teacher. They're probably earning that paycheck that is apparently up for the taking if you so choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

What on earth. I stayed at home until my kids were each 2 (because I wanted to give them and myself a European style maternity leave). During that time, I actually was with them for the vast majority of the day (and near them at night). I know exactly how much more it was than working parents, because My husband, who worked in an office, saw them a tiny fraction of that time (breakfast and then 6-8, when I was also home). The working parents trying to make the claim that it's even are truly deranged. It's not even close.

(Just to add my experience, my kids then went to play school at age 2 from 9-12 and then took a long nap at home in the afternoon, and bc we live in DC they started full day preschool at 3. And I worked when they were at playschool and then school).

It’s amazing to me how many women post something like this almost as a brag.

I made my husband work so many hours that he never ever ever ever ever saw his own child so that I could be there the whole time.

Instead of, I was not with my child for about four hours a day because I really wanted my husband to not have to take that job they made him never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. See his child.

Girl That is not an accomplishment that is sad and slightly abusive to your husband

What? Her DH was with the kids for breakfast in the morning and then home by 6 at night. It sounds like he probably worked a typical 9-5ish office job with a commute. That's abusive now? I just can't!

Seriously! Now that working mom wants to claim that most other working mom's schedules are ABUSIVE. So basically, you can only do it exactly the way she did, no more and no less, or according to her YOU SUCK.

+1 And she's so clueless she doesn't even realize how insulting her post was to the MANY WOMEN who probably work a similar schedule.

It’s abusive to drive or take a train to an office and work 8-9 hours a day now according to crazy people who would rather have their kids wake up at 6 am and go to bed at 9 pm and then do work from 9:30-10:30? Your schedule is abusive. No one wants to put a 2,3,4, or 5 year old to bed at 9 pm. That’s abusive! No one wants to work 5 days a week from 9:30-10:30 pm before waking up at 5:15 so you can wake your kids up at 6 am.

Most people want to have jobs that allow them to get promoted and they want to occasionally exercise before 4:30 am. Your entire insane schedule is abusive to your entire family. Unless you are so broke that you can’t afford childcare it is completely psychotic to do this to your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

This is just not true.

+1. I can’t believe how many insecure moms are responding. Working and stay at home moms are not monolithic groups. Just because you know someone who does x does not mean that applies to all individuals in that group. The idea that working moms spend 30 minutes a day with their kids is as ludicrous as the idea that sahm spend 6 hours a day with their kids.

All of the insecure posts on here mostly directed as stay at home moms (I WFH) are insane though. Someone was offended that a poster said working moms gave up time with their kids and stay at home moms gave up status and financial security. And some crazed working mom wrote that she was insulted that someone would say working moms gave up time with their kids by working. I mean, how is it an insult to (checks notes) *state facts* unless you are so insecure that you can’t handle the truth.

So many women feel insulted by the “strangers raising my kid” comment because they feel that it is a personal attack on them and they are in complete denial about the fact that by working they spend less time with their children. Initially there were the people claiming they and their spouse worked full time and their child only had a nanny between 11-12 and 3-5 (because we all know it’s super common for children to take a three hour nap in the middle of the day from birth to five while you work and run errands🙄 and that so many nannies will accept a shambolic schedule) and since those ridiculous examples didn’t withstand scrutiny then it was the ad hominem “you dumb” after every valid argument and finally it’s this ridiculous argument that stay at home moms spend 6 hours with their kids a day (because if you’re a working parent in an office and your child naps it’s like you are right there taking care of them for all [insert unbelievably high made up number] hours they nap during the day, but if you’re a stay at home mom and your child naps you are not parenting them). It’s been illogical from the start but at this point it’s farcical too.

If you are talking about my post then you have reading comprehension issues because 1) I stated that my DH and I staggered schedules so that one left late and the other one came back early, 2) it was a 2-hour nap not 3 hours, and 3) We hired a nanny for 6 hours a day but she helped with housework when she wasn’t actively taking care of our kid.

And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child to take a 2-hour nap until age ~4 or so. Some don’t but most do.

So just call yourself a SAHM. What’s the difference?

Because I was not… I was a WOHM who made $200k+.

Why are you so antagonistic about this? It’s a good thing when working parents are able to flex their schedules to spend a ton of time with their kids. Maybe not as much as SAHPs (I didn’t claim to do so in my original post) but still a solid chunk so that they feel really connected with their kids.

Work out of home but spends the same amount of time at home. Ok.

I worked 11:15-6 in the office and he worked 8-4 in the office. I had a shorter commute, less demanding job, and lower salary than him. We both logged in for an hour or two every night.

Here’s your cookie. Nobody cares.

Maybe you think I am offended… but this comment just makes you sound petulant

You’re out of the home about 7 hours a day. Not sure why you’re engaging in arguments with SAHM about how much quality time you have at home.

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to goad someone into saying your brain has turned to mush?

My point was I (and my husband) could still work FT, with my kids in parental care the majority of their day.

So you saw your kids for like 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes at night and your husband never saw your kids in the morning. And you both patented solo and probably got docked financially at work for your weird hours in office and then you still worked 8:30-9:30 pm with your husband every night after your kids went to bed. Sounds like a miserable situation for everyone… Maybe one of you should have stayed home or used childcare so your lives weren’t so crazy. You must be very burnt out.

I saw my kids from 6-11am and 6:15-9pm. DH saw them from 5-9pm. My point was they were in the care of a parent for all but 11-5 (during which time they were napping for 2 hours anyway) and that made us happy because we wanted to prioritize their time with a parent!

Yes we were a little burnt out a bit from doing it, but it was temporary and enabled us long-term to grow our careers while still feeling super connected to our kids. Both of us received promotions (DH got a huge one) because our companies prioritized talent over facetime.

Overall we feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to have our cake and eat it too. I would encourage any parent who enjoys working to try pushing for flexible schedules before giving up and quitting.

I am not the poster with the neighbor, or the poster calculating and comparing how much time SAHMs spend with their kids (of course they spend more!). I am just stating what *I* did. The thought of being in competition with some SAHM is actually quite hilarious to me.

So your kids were in the care of someone other than their parent, 4 hours a day. Not 8 or 10 or 12.

11-5, so 6 hours. Which generally consisted of lunch, playtime at home, nap, walk to playground, then back home for the evening routine with DH. As naps got shorter, playground time got longer. Or if it was indoor weather, play date with a neighborhood kid (there were plenty of them around).

I do not understand what the point of these detailed accountings is.

I guess to try and claim you have cracked the code to having both a successful career and not missing out on any time with your kids?

And yet a sahp would be spending the hours of 11-5 with their kids so... it's not the same. She would also not have a salary or the benefit of the help and support you get from a nanny. Tradeoffs. Everyone has them.

I just think we could all agree that saying a working parent doesn't "raise" their kids is not fair or accurate in the vast majority of cases but also concede that of course sahps spend more time with their kids and there are certain benefits to this (just as there are benefits to having two incomes and having reliable childcare).

I don't even understand what we are arguing about at this point. I truly do not care about your split shift with your spouse and nanny. Like it is incredibly dull and I cannot believe there are like 50 posts on this thread about this subject.

Thank you!
I sahm and don't care about other people's schedules. You're all raising your kids and some with great schedules, rough schedules, stressful, peaceful, hectic or everything together. Nobody but you and some antagonistic jerk responding here wants to pick apart your hours. Please stop justifying yourselves and do NOT doubt your choices over some troll.

I appreciate your post but I want to make it clear that I am not justifying myself or feeling any insecurity.

I used to read threads like this when I was pregnant or a new mom. If there are other folks like that reading, who like working but want more time with their kids, I want them to know IT IS POSSIBLE to ask for flexibility. If enough of us ask, maybe there will be a shift in the working world towards more flexibility.

You should also know that a lot of that shift happened because of the women who quit when they couldn't get the flexibility. So don't look down on older SAHMs; they made the turnover so expensive and untenable that it forced the hand of many employers to make your generation's flex schedule possible. I was in those meetings when the shift in thought started to happen.

This is actually a great point. I became a SAHM in 2017 in part because my employer was so rigid about accommodating some pretty basic requests to ease my return to work after my leave. For instance I had been WFH two days a week pre baby and wanted to continue that but my director changed our group's WFH policy during my leave to require every day in office. I then asked for an accommodation for the first two months back that would allow me adjust my start time to help with drop off schedule at our daycare. This was denied even though it would have no impact on my overall hours (DH would handle pick up so I'd just stay later to make up the 30 minute difference) and not a single member of my team had an issue with it. After that there was a conflict over my pumping room (the only pumping room in the building was 4 floors away and a 10-15 minute walk from my desk so I asked if I could use a supply closet closer to my desk and offered to purchase and bring in my own mini fridge but this was also denied).

So I quit. I later found out that my director was moved to another division after that where she didn't have direct reports and official company policy regarding all of these issues -- WFH and flex schedule and pumping facilities was changed. It wasn't just me -- there were other women who wound up leaving over these issues and also Covid played a role. But the friends I still have at that company say that losing several good longtime employees over these issues was a wake up call for the company and made them realize that the standard for being "family friendly" had increased since they first took on that label.

So you can judge me all I want but if you then want to brag about how you worked out a deal with your employer were you work 11-7 and are remote 2 days a week then you might want to learn a little history about how common deals like that were even just 5 years ago and ask yourself how that change happened so swiftly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

This is just not true.

+1. I can’t believe how many insecure moms are responding. Working and stay at home moms are not monolithic groups. Just because you know someone who does x does not mean that applies to all individuals in that group. The idea that working moms spend 30 minutes a day with their kids is as ludicrous as the idea that sahm spend 6 hours a day with their kids.

All of the insecure posts on here mostly directed as stay at home moms (I WFH) are insane though. Someone was offended that a poster said working moms gave up time with their kids and stay at home moms gave up status and financial security. And some crazed working mom wrote that she was insulted that someone would say working moms gave up time with their kids by working. I mean, how is it an insult to (checks notes) *state facts* unless you are so insecure that you can’t handle the truth.

So many women feel insulted by the “strangers raising my kid” comment because they feel that it is a personal attack on them and they are in complete denial about the fact that by working they spend less time with their children. Initially there were the people claiming they and their spouse worked full time and their child only had a nanny between 11-12 and 3-5 (because we all know it’s super common for children to take a three hour nap in the middle of the day from birth to five while you work and run errands🙄 and that so many nannies will accept a shambolic schedule) and since those ridiculous examples didn’t withstand scrutiny then it was the ad hominem “you dumb” after every valid argument and finally it’s this ridiculous argument that stay at home moms spend 6 hours with their kids a day (because if you’re a working parent in an office and your child naps it’s like you are right there taking care of them for all [insert unbelievably high made up number] hours they nap during the day, but if you’re a stay at home mom and your child naps you are not parenting them). It’s been illogical from the start but at this point it’s farcical too.

If you are talking about my post then you have reading comprehension issues because 1) I stated that my DH and I staggered schedules so that one left late and the other one came back early, 2) it was a 2-hour nap not 3 hours, and 3) We hired a nanny for 6 hours a day but she helped with housework when she wasn’t actively taking care of our kid.

And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child to take a 2-hour nap until age ~4 or so. Some don’t but most do.

So just call yourself a SAHM. What’s the difference?

Because I was not… I was a WOHM who made $200k+.

Why are you so antagonistic about this? It’s a good thing when working parents are able to flex their schedules to spend a ton of time with their kids. Maybe not as much as SAHPs (I didn’t claim to do so in my original post) but still a solid chunk so that they feel really connected with their kids.

Work out of home but spends the same amount of time at home. Ok.

I worked 11:15-6 in the office and he worked 8-4 in the office. I had a shorter commute, less demanding job, and lower salary than him. We both logged in for an hour or two every night.

Here’s your cookie. Nobody cares.

Maybe you think I am offended… but this comment just makes you sound petulant

You’re out of the home about 7 hours a day. Not sure why you’re engaging in arguments with SAHM about how much quality time you have at home.

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to goad someone into saying your brain has turned to mush?

My point was I (and my husband) could still work FT, with my kids in parental care the majority of their day.

So you saw your kids for like 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes at night and your husband never saw your kids in the morning. And you both patented solo and probably got docked financially at work for your weird hours in office and then you still worked 8:30-9:30 pm with your husband every night after your kids went to bed. Sounds like a miserable situation for everyone… Maybe one of you should have stayed home or used childcare so your lives weren’t so crazy. You must be very burnt out.

I saw my kids from 6-11am and 6:15-9pm. DH saw them from 5-9pm. My point was they were in the care of a parent for all but 11-5 (during which time they were napping for 2 hours anyway) and that made us happy because we wanted to prioritize their time with a parent!

Yes we were a little burnt out a bit from doing it, but it was temporary and enabled us long-term to grow our careers while still feeling super connected to our kids. Both of us received promotions (DH got a huge one) because our companies prioritized talent over facetime.

Overall we feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to have our cake and eat it too. I would encourage any parent who enjoys working to try pushing for flexible schedules before giving up and quitting.

I am not the poster with the neighbor, or the poster calculating and comparing how much time SAHMs spend with their kids (of course they spend more!). I am just stating what *I* did. The thought of being in competition with some SAHM is actually quite hilarious to me.

Your children woke up at 6 am and went to bed at 9 pm before they were even in K?

And then you and your husband worked for an hour every night after your children went to bed, so like 9:15-10:15 pm, before you cleaned up and got everything ready for the next day before waking up at like 5:15 to shower and get ready before the kids woke up at 6? What an insane schedule for your entire family.

While many working couples do not both have unicorn remote jobs that allow them to flex time in a way that allows them to work outside of standard hours that also correspond with their spouse’s job, usually jobs like this do not allow for growth. If someone needs your spouse at 4 or you at 8 am they can’t get ahold of you for hours. This entire set up is also predicated on your toddler and preschool aged children waking up at 6, going to bed at 9, and napping for two hours in the middle of the day and you and your husband using your evenings to put your kids to bed and work. The craziness of this schedule perfectly illustrates why so many people either have childcare for a standard workday or a parent stays at home.

Our nanny helped with cooking and housework during nap time. We paid a FT salary for only 30-35 hours a week, so she was happy to do it.

Look, you can try and poke 100 holes in my story that are not worth my time to refute. If it makes you happy to believe I am a) lying about my schedule b) was miserable during that time, or c) had a career that stalled, then go ahead and believe it.

But for any open-minded WOHMs out there who enjoy working and still want to find a way to spend more time with their kids, I would strongly recommend advocating for a more flexible schedule, before giving up and quitting. Yes, it requires some sacrifice of nighttime entertainment (very limited TV or phone scrolling for us!) but it was worth it because we spent a ton of time with our young kids while still growing our careers.

I'm a DP, and I don't think you're lying. Glad it worked out for you.

But, come on, your situation and posts are irrelevant and derailing. Why? Because they realistically apply to like no one, or maybe something like 0.0001% of dual FT WOHM households where both spouses have traditional office jobs. You must understand how exceedingly rare it is to be a couple where BOTH OF YOU could have those kind of alternate schedules and flexibility and not tank your careers. Your advice is really not going to apply to anyone, so it's annoying!

Also, you keep trickling in more information...like now it turns out you had to log back on for hours at night and pay your part-time nanny a full-time salary. Ugh, ugh, ugh!

FWIW, my kids are school-age now and I am able to work 7 to 3 two days a week which I arranged because those two days my one kid has an activity she is very passionate about that I need to get her to. My DH is senior enough that he can put the kids onto the bus at 8:20 those two days, getting into the office a little later, and it's ok. That's the kind of reasonable flexibility some folks should look into/test out! But me not starting my day everyday until 11:15 and him needing to leave the office everyday at 4 to relieve the nanny??? we would tank out careers no doubt! (And our jobs are not even that intense or big on "facetime".)

It’s extremely common now for parents to have flexible schedules and paternity leave.

OTOH, it’s about .000001% of the population who are SAHM who are not busy with everything but raising their kids during the day.

What’s it like to be really bad at both math and basic research? Your lack of skills in both are on display here as is your privilege.

If you and everyone you know is a fed please understand that you are not representative of 98% of the US workforce. 1.9% of the us workforce works for the federal government.

According to the NYT, 80% of working adults are at in person jobs and 20% are remote or hybrid, with those categories being roughly even. Parents do not “commonly” have flexible jobs by this metric.

24% of parents working in the private sector have access to some paid parental leave. And many men who have leave available to them do not take all of it due to stigma. 75% of working fathers take a week off and 16% take no time off.

And .000001% of the US population is 346. You think 346 people are stay at home moms?

For the sake of humanity I hope your job has zero data analysis or critical thinking requirements. My five year old is more capable of higher level thinking.

You didn't even recognize that I used your insane statistic as a hyperbole. I literally repeated your inane statement in reverse. Please I hope your job does not require reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

But with teachers and construction workers and farmers and nurses and cops and the plethora of workers you probably don't even know in person, not everybody is 9-5 in an office with a commute needing $330K/year to survive. There is a whole world out there in the exburbs and rural areas.

This wasn’t my language. I have no idea whose language you repeated but everything you wrote is incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

What on earth. I stayed at home until my kids were each 2 (because I wanted to give them and myself a European style maternity leave). During that time, I actually was with them for the vast majority of the day (and near them at night). I know exactly how much more it was than working parents, because My husband, who worked in an office, saw them a tiny fraction of that time (breakfast and then 6-8, when I was also home). The working parents trying to make the claim that it's even are truly deranged. It's not even close.

(Just to add my experience, my kids then went to play school at age 2 from 9-12 and then took a long nap at home in the afternoon, and bc we live in DC they started full day preschool at 3. And I worked when they were at playschool and then school).

It’s amazing to me how many women post something like this almost as a brag.

I made my husband work so many hours that he never ever ever ever ever saw his own child so that I could be there the whole time.

Instead of, I was not with my child for about four hours a day because I really wanted my husband to not have to take that job they made him never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. See his child.

Girl That is not an accomplishment that is sad and slightly abusive to your husband

What? Her DH was with the kids for breakfast in the morning and then home by 6 at night. It sounds like he probably worked a typical 9-5ish office job with a commute. That's abusive now? I just can't!

She said "tiny fraction of that time".. it's so sad and pathetic the lengths you will go to justify staying home even if it means your H is home a "tiny fraction of that time".

Doesn't sound like a partnership to me. Get off the dole.

The PP was right though. Working a normal 9-5 with a commute results in you spending a tiny fraction of the time that a SAHP spends with kids. This is simply factual. Parents of both genders lament this all the time. And it's why some parents if they are lucky enough to be able to afford it will leave their jobs to stay home with kids for some period of time.

That's it I think we solved the thread. Thanks for your help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

This is just not true.

+1. I can’t believe how many insecure moms are responding. Working and stay at home moms are not monolithic groups. Just because you know someone who does x does not mean that applies to all individuals in that group. The idea that working moms spend 30 minutes a day with their kids is as ludicrous as the idea that sahm spend 6 hours a day with their kids.

All of the insecure posts on here mostly directed as stay at home moms (I WFH) are insane though. Someone was offended that a poster said working moms gave up time with their kids and stay at home moms gave up status and financial security. And some crazed working mom wrote that she was insulted that someone would say working moms gave up time with their kids by working. I mean, how is it an insult to (checks notes) *state facts* unless you are so insecure that you can’t handle the truth.

So many women feel insulted by the “strangers raising my kid” comment because they feel that it is a personal attack on them and they are in complete denial about the fact that by working they spend less time with their children. Initially there were the people claiming they and their spouse worked full time and their child only had a nanny between 11-12 and 3-5 (because we all know it’s super common for children to take a three hour nap in the middle of the day from birth to five while you work and run errands🙄 and that so many nannies will accept a shambolic schedule) and since those ridiculous examples didn’t withstand scrutiny then it was the ad hominem “you dumb” after every valid argument and finally it’s this ridiculous argument that stay at home moms spend 6 hours with their kids a day (because if you’re a working parent in an office and your child naps it’s like you are right there taking care of them for all [insert unbelievably high made up number] hours they nap during the day, but if you’re a stay at home mom and your child naps you are not parenting them). It’s been illogical from the start but at this point it’s farcical too.

If you are talking about my post then you have reading comprehension issues because 1) I stated that my DH and I staggered schedules so that one left late and the other one came back early, 2) it was a 2-hour nap not 3 hours, and 3) We hired a nanny for 6 hours a day but she helped with housework when she wasn’t actively taking care of our kid.

And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child to take a 2-hour nap until age ~4 or so. Some don’t but most do.

So just call yourself a SAHM. What’s the difference?

Because I was not… I was a WOHM who made $200k+.

Why are you so antagonistic about this? It’s a good thing when working parents are able to flex their schedules to spend a ton of time with their kids. Maybe not as much as SAHPs (I didn’t claim to do so in my original post) but still a solid chunk so that they feel really connected with their kids.

Work out of home but spends the same amount of time at home. Ok.

I worked 11:15-6 in the office and he worked 8-4 in the office. I had a shorter commute, less demanding job, and lower salary than him. We both logged in for an hour or two every night.

Here’s your cookie. Nobody cares.

Maybe you think I am offended… but this comment just makes you sound petulant

You’re out of the home about 7 hours a day. Not sure why you’re engaging in arguments with SAHM about how much quality time you have at home.

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to goad someone into saying your brain has turned to mush?

My point was I (and my husband) could still work FT, with my kids in parental care the majority of their day.

So you saw your kids for like 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes at night and your husband never saw your kids in the morning. And you both patented solo and probably got docked financially at work for your weird hours in office and then you still worked 8:30-9:30 pm with your husband every night after your kids went to bed. Sounds like a miserable situation for everyone… Maybe one of you should have stayed home or used childcare so your lives weren’t so crazy. You must be very burnt out.

I saw my kids from 6-11am and 6:15-9pm. DH saw them from 5-9pm. My point was they were in the care of a parent for all but 11-5 (during which time they were napping for 2 hours anyway) and that made us happy because we wanted to prioritize their time with a parent!

Yes we were a little burnt out a bit from doing it, but it was temporary and enabled us long-term to grow our careers while still feeling super connected to our kids. Both of us received promotions (DH got a huge one) because our companies prioritized talent over facetime.

Overall we feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to have our cake and eat it too. I would encourage any parent who enjoys working to try pushing for flexible schedules before giving up and quitting.

I am not the poster with the neighbor, or the poster calculating and comparing how much time SAHMs spend with their kids (of course they spend more!). I am just stating what *I* did. The thought of being in competition with some SAHM is actually quite hilarious to me.

Your children woke up at 6 am and went to bed at 9 pm before they were even in K?

And then you and your husband worked for an hour every night after your children went to bed, so like 9:15-10:15 pm, before you cleaned up and got everything ready for the next day before waking up at like 5:15 to shower and get ready before the kids woke up at 6? What an insane schedule for your entire family.

While many working couples do not both have unicorn remote jobs that allow them to flex time in a way that allows them to work outside of standard hours that also correspond with their spouse’s job, usually jobs like this do not allow for growth. If someone needs your spouse at 4 or you at 8 am they can’t get ahold of you for hours. This entire set up is also predicated on your toddler and preschool aged children waking up at 6, going to bed at 9, and napping for two hours in the middle of the day and you and your husband using your evenings to put your kids to bed and work. The craziness of this schedule perfectly illustrates why so many people either have childcare for a standard workday or a parent stays at home.

Our nanny helped with cooking and housework during nap time. We paid a FT salary for only 30-35 hours a week, so she was happy to do it.

Look, you can try and poke 100 holes in my story that are not worth my time to refute. If it makes you happy to believe I am a) lying about my schedule b) was miserable during that time, or c) had a career that stalled, then go ahead and believe it.

But for any open-minded WOHMs out there who enjoy working and still want to find a way to spend more time with their kids, I would strongly recommend advocating for a more flexible schedule, before giving up and quitting. Yes, it requires some sacrifice of nighttime entertainment (very limited TV or phone scrolling for us!) but it was worth it because we spent a ton of time with our young kids while still growing our careers.

I'm a DP, and I don't think you're lying. Glad it worked out for you.

But, come on, your situation and posts are irrelevant and derailing. Why? Because they realistically apply to like no one, or maybe something like 0.0001% of dual FT WOHM households where both spouses have traditional office jobs. You must understand how exceedingly rare it is to be a couple where BOTH OF YOU could have those kind of alternate schedules and flexibility and not tank your careers. Your advice is really not going to apply to anyone, so it's annoying!

Also, you keep trickling in more information...like now it turns out you had to log back on for hours at night and pay your part-time nanny a full-time salary. Ugh, ugh, ugh!

FWIW, my kids are school-age now and I am able to work 7 to 3 two days a week which I arranged because those two days my one kid has an activity she is very passionate about that I need to get her to. My DH is senior enough that he can put the kids onto the bus at 8:20 those two days, getting into the office a little later, and it's ok. That's the kind of reasonable flexibility some folks should look into/test out! But me not starting my day everyday until 11:15 and him needing to leave the office everyday at 4 to relieve the nanny??? we would tank out careers no doubt! (And our jobs are not even that intense or big on "facetime".)

It’s extremely common now for parents to have flexible schedules and paternity leave.

OTOH, it’s about .000001% of the population who are SAHM who are not busy with everything but raising their kids during the day.

What’s it like to be really bad at both math and basic research? Your lack of skills in both are on display here as is your privilege.

If you and everyone you know is a fed please understand that you are not representative of 98% of the US workforce. 1.9% of the us workforce works for the federal government.

According to the NYT, 80% of working adults are at in person jobs and 20% are remote or hybrid, with those categories being roughly even. Parents do not “commonly” have flexible jobs by this metric.

24% of parents working in the private sector have access to some paid parental leave. And many men who have leave available to them do not take all of it due to stigma. 75% of working fathers take a week off and 16% take no time off.

And .000001% of the US population is 346. You think 346 people are stay at home moms?

For the sake of humanity I hope your job has zero data analysis or critical thinking requirements. My five year old is more capable of higher level thinking.

You didn't even recognize that I used your insane statistic as a hyperbole. I literally repeated your inane statement in reverse. Please I hope your job does not require reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

But with teachers and construction workers and farmers and nurses and cops and the plethora of workers you probably don't even know in person, not everybody is 9-5 in an office with a commute needing $330K/year to survive. There is a whole world out there in the exburbs and rural areas.

I'm the PP who first used the so-called inane statistic -- which I was also using in a hyperbolic sense of course; I'm not the PP quoting the NYT. I was clear in my post that I was referring to FT WOHM "office workers". It's difficult and rare for typical office workers to have the alternative schedules the other PP described, particularly both spouses! I understand that shift work and other professions, etc. does make alternative schedules more feasible.

That being said, the weirdest part of your post using the 0.000001 % statistic is that you continue to grasp onto this idea that SAHMs are basically neglecting their kids all day whereas WOHM are spending just the bestest quality time with them ever ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

You have a warped view of spending time with kids. I think it is odd that you don't think it "counts" to be the adult in the house that your kid will come to, that your kid is aware of as the person there for them in the moment, to be the person who is planning ahead for what comes next in the day. Just because your kid is building legos in the next room and you are not actively building with them does not mean you are not with the child as their safe and present primary care giver.

[Anonymous]

I think as with a lot of issues on DCUM, it comes down to doing what works for you and your family. Just like the private vs. public and having 0,1,2,3+ kids debates, there is no RIGHT and WRONG. That is the nuance that people don't seem to be able to grasp. Do what works for you. You're not doing anything right or wrong. You are doing what is best for you and your children end of story. Do what you can with what you have available to you and respect other people for their choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all arguing about schedules and hours? You don't need to prove something how your schedule is superior to someone else. People have different lives, so what

Well this whole thread is about how many hours you spend with your kids so....

And of course SAHM’s spend more, so the whole argument is stupid.

The difference is nominal.

It really depends on both the type of work the working parent is doing and how demanding it is (ie: cushy WFH office gig vs. Big Law or busy medical practice or long commute) and also how much the SAHM is farming out her kids either through nearly full day preschool (ie: 9-2pm 5 days a week) or a "part-time nanny" or whatever. We all know different families on all ends of these spectrums.

+1 and for SAHMs of school age children there is a wide variety of involvement. Some use their time to volunteer at the school and spend the whole summer with kids. Some are picking kids up right ght after school and spending the entire afternoon engaging with them. Others aren't doing any of those things. I know plenty of SAHMs who are spending A LOT of time with their school age kids, or directly engaged with their schools or activities, and not only do working parents not do all that but they often benefit from it.

And before you yell at me yes I also know working parents who run PTAs and volunteer a lot. But you need a specific kind of personality and job for that. Most working parents cannot do all that.

Most SAHM's do not volunteer at school or run the PTA.

I don't think what happens after school is SAHM/WOHM related. Enganged moms are engaged and it has nothing to do with the working status.

My kids are in private and pretty much every parent with a position in our parents association until like 2nd is a SAHM. The heads of the auction are SAH. I volunteer about 20 hours total throughout the year (I WOH) but I can’t commit to the level of involvement required and I don’t want to drop the ball have a bunch of parents hate me.

My kids are in private and pretty much every parent with a position in our parents association works, both the men and the women. The most involved two I can think of are a radiologist and a child psychologist. I'm a lawyer, along with a handful of other lawyers. We have some realtors, multiple doctors and nurses, and some finance people. I can only think of one SAHP actually.

The stay at homes are there you just don’t know them. Stay at home moms get to know each other because they have something in common. I’m not gonna lie, some of our kids were a little too catered to because they were our main job. We had money so there was really no limit on activities and getting together for whatever reason.

You obviously know the working people and their jobs but the stay at home parents have kids at your school, you just don’t know them.

Can you read? I didn't see there aren't SAHMs at our school. Of course there are. I said PARENTS WITH A POSITION IN OUR PARENTS ASSOCIATION. And yeah, I do know all of those. And I can only think of one who doesn't work.

But go enjoy your money and your free time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you all arguing about schedules and hours? You don't need to prove something how your schedule is superior to someone else. People have different lives, so what

Well this whole thread is about how many hours you spend with your kids so....

And of course SAHM’s spend more, so the whole argument is stupid.

The difference is nominal.

It really depends on both the type of work the working parent is doing and how demanding it is (ie: cushy WFH office gig vs. Big Law or busy medical practice or long commute) and also how much the SAHM is farming out her kids either through nearly full day preschool (ie: 9-2pm 5 days a week) or a "part-time nanny" or whatever. We all know different families on all ends of these spectrums.

+1 and for SAHMs of school age children there is a wide variety of involvement. Some use their time to volunteer at the school and spend the whole summer with kids. Some are picking kids up right ght after school and spending the entire afternoon engaging with them. Others aren't doing any of those things. I know plenty of SAHMs who are spending A LOT of time with their school age kids, or directly engaged with their schools or activities, and not only do working parents not do all that but they often benefit from it.

And before you yell at me yes I also know working parents who run PTAs and volunteer a lot. But you need a specific kind of personality and job for that. Most working parents cannot do all that.

Most SAHM's do not volunteer at school or run the PTA.

I don't think what happens after school is SAHM/WOHM related. Enganged moms are engaged and it has nothing to do with the working status.

My kids are in private and pretty much every parent with a position in our parents association until like 2nd is a SAHM. The heads of the auction are SAH. I volunteer about 20 hours total throughout the year (I WOH) but I can’t commit to the level of involvement required and I don’t want to drop the ball have a bunch of parents hate me.

My kids are in private and pretty much every parent with a position in our parents association works, both the men and the women. The most involved two I can think of are a radiologist and a child psychologist. I'm a lawyer, along with a handful of other lawyers. We have some realtors, multiple doctors and nurses, and some finance people. I can only think of one SAHP actually.

The stay at homes are there you just don’t know them. Stay at home moms get to know each other because they have something in common. I’m not gonna lie, some of our kids were a little too catered to because they were our main job. We had money so there was really no limit on activities and getting together for whatever reason.

You obviously know the working people and their jobs but the stay at home parents have kids at your school, you just don’t know them.

Um, that’s dumb. Sorry. At my daughter’s private in DC, there are 45 girls in her whole class and I do, indeed, know what most of the parents do. This is likely true for most privates. It’s not like there’s radar or a caste system, wtf? You meet all the parents. Most of us talk to the parents of our kid’s friends. We don’t screen for work status.

Looks like you screen for work status. You named all the job titles and identified one stay at home. If a woman loves her job she shouldn’t have to give it up. Both at home mothers and work mothers can equally do a bad job or an excellent job. But to claim there are no at home mothers who use private schools is ridiculous. (So is starting a sentence with “Um”)

I'm the PP who listed the job titles but not the one to whom you are responding. Do you know how public forums work? I never said there are no at home mothers who use private schools. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read all the thread but YES!!!!! Very offended!! I would have given my left arm to be a SAHM but I couldn’t. Check your privilege.

If someone said this to you, you probably said something to deserve it. But nobody actually leads with this statement.

This is so disingenuous. There are posters who said just that and exactly that as their sole post, not in response to anything. Stop acting like SAHMs are only sh!tty when WOHMs say mean things first. I could show you hundreds of posts on here where that is not true.

On the flip side, I can show you nasty, unprovoked posts from WOHMs as well, but for you to claim that no SAHM would ever say something like this unless they were insulted first is beyond ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posts "I work while my child sleeps and I spend all the waking moments with them along with my DH who also works unicorn hours. When they are preschool age we choose the best school ever....."
It's not real life, 99% of jobs are not like that and both parents equally parenting is difficult to manage too. Aren't parents often complaining about getting their spouse to take on more. I don't think the unicorn perfect parents of the world realize that most people cannot just "choose" this setup

Similarly

"I SAHM with my children, I even sleep with them to maximize my time "raising" them" ... I don't shower or cook or clean or workout or run errands or take walks or go on dates or see friends or do girls weekend or vacatino with my H or visit family without them or get sick or let my H take them or let them do independent play ever so I'm never away from them. I would never spend 1 hour away let alone 3 that is reducing my "raising" time by 20%. I spaced my kids perfectly so my toddler would never take time away from my infant."

It's not real life, 99% of SAHM's are doing stuff without their children for hours a day, they are not with them 24x7. They spend at most 6 hours a day one on one with them. I don't think it would even be healthy to be this invested and involved in every breath your child takes.

This is just not true.

+1. I can’t believe how many insecure moms are responding. Working and stay at home moms are not monolithic groups. Just because you know someone who does x does not mean that applies to all individuals in that group. The idea that working moms spend 30 minutes a day with their kids is as ludicrous as the idea that sahm spend 6 hours a day with their kids.

All of the insecure posts on here mostly directed as stay at home moms (I WFH) are insane though. Someone was offended that a poster said working moms gave up time with their kids and stay at home moms gave up status and financial security. And some crazed working mom wrote that she was insulted that someone would say working moms gave up time with their kids by working. I mean, how is it an insult to (checks notes) *state facts* unless you are so insecure that you can’t handle the truth.

So many women feel insulted by the “strangers raising my kid” comment because they feel that it is a personal attack on them and they are in complete denial about the fact that by working they spend less time with their children. Initially there were the people claiming they and their spouse worked full time and their child only had a nanny between 11-12 and 3-5 (because we all know it’s super common for children to take a three hour nap in the middle of the day from birth to five while you work and run errands🙄 and that so many nannies will accept a shambolic schedule) and since those ridiculous examples didn’t withstand scrutiny then it was the ad hominem “you dumb” after every valid argument and finally it’s this ridiculous argument that stay at home moms spend 6 hours with their kids a day (because if you’re a working parent in an office and your child naps it’s like you are right there taking care of them for all [insert unbelievably high made up number] hours they nap during the day, but if you’re a stay at home mom and your child naps you are not parenting them). It’s been illogical from the start but at this point it’s farcical too.

If you are talking about my post then you have reading comprehension issues because 1) I stated that my DH and I staggered schedules so that one left late and the other one came back early, 2) it was a 2-hour nap not 3 hours, and 3) We hired a nanny for 6 hours a day but she helped with housework when she wasn’t actively taking care of our kid.

And yes, it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child to take a 2-hour nap until age ~4 or so. Some don’t but most do.

So just call yourself a SAHM. What’s the difference?

Because I was not… I was a WOHM who made $200k+.

Why are you so antagonistic about this? It’s a good thing when working parents are able to flex their schedules to spend a ton of time with their kids. Maybe not as much as SAHPs (I didn’t claim to do so in my original post) but still a solid chunk so that they feel really connected with their kids.

Work out of home but spends the same amount of time at home. Ok.

I worked 11:15-6 in the office and he worked 8-4 in the office. I had a shorter commute, less demanding job, and lower salary than him. We both logged in for an hour or two every night.

Here’s your cookie. Nobody cares.

Maybe you think I am offended… but this comment just makes you sound petulant

You’re out of the home about 7 hours a day. Not sure why you’re engaging in arguments with SAHM about how much quality time you have at home.

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to goad someone into saying your brain has turned to mush?

My point was I (and my husband) could still work FT, with my kids in parental care the majority of their day.

So you saw your kids for like 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes at night and your husband never saw your kids in the morning. And you both patented solo and probably got docked financially at work for your weird hours in office and then you still worked 8:30-9:30 pm with your husband every night after your kids went to bed. Sounds like a miserable situation for everyone… Maybe one of you should have stayed home or used childcare so your lives weren’t so crazy. You must be very burnt out.

I saw my kids from 6-11am and 6:15-9pm. DH saw them from 5-9pm. My point was they were in the care of a parent for all but 11-5 (during which time they were napping for 2 hours anyway) and that made us happy because we wanted to prioritize their time with a parent!

Yes we were a little burnt out a bit from doing it, but it was temporary and enabled us long-term to grow our careers while still feeling super connected to our kids. Both of us received promotions (DH got a huge one) because our companies prioritized talent over facetime.

Overall we feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to have our cake and eat it too. I would encourage any parent who enjoys working to try pushing for flexible schedules before giving up and quitting.

I am not the poster with the neighbor, or the poster calculating and comparing how much time SAHMs spend with their kids (of course they spend more!). I am just stating what *I* did. The thought of being in competition with some SAHM is actually quite hilarious to me.

Your children woke up at 6 am and went to bed at 9 pm before they were even in K?

And then you and your husband worked for an hour every night after your children went to bed, so like 9:15-10:15 pm, before you cleaned up and got everything ready for the next day before waking up at like 5:15 to shower and get ready before the kids woke up at 6? What an insane schedule for your entire family.

While many working couples do not both have unicorn remote jobs that allow them to flex time in a way that allows them to work outside of standard hours that also correspond with their spouse’s job, usually jobs like this do not allow for growth. If someone needs your spouse at 4 or you at 8 am they can’t get ahold of you for hours. This entire set up is also predicated on your toddler and preschool aged children waking up at 6, going to bed at 9, and napping for two hours in the middle of the day and you and your husband using your evenings to put your kids to bed and work. The craziness of this schedule perfectly illustrates why so many people either have childcare for a standard workday or a parent stays at home.

Our nanny helped with cooking and housework during nap time. We paid a FT salary for only 30-35 hours a week, so she was happy to do it.

Look, you can try and poke 100 holes in my story that are not worth my time to refute. If it makes you happy to believe I am a) lying about my schedule b) was miserable during that time, or c) had a career that stalled, then go ahead and believe it.

But for any open-minded WOHMs out there who enjoy working and still want to find a way to spend more time with their kids, I would strongly recommend advocating for a more flexible schedule, before giving up and quitting. Yes, it requires some sacrifice of nighttime entertainment (very limited TV or phone scrolling for us!) but it was worth it because we spent a ton of time with our young kids while still growing our careers.

I'm a DP, and I don't think you're lying. Glad it worked out for you.

But, come on, your situation and posts are irrelevant and derailing. Why? Because they realistically apply to like no one, or maybe something like 0.0001% of dual FT WOHM households where both spouses have traditional office jobs. You must understand how exceedingly rare it is to be a couple where BOTH OF YOU could have those kind of alternate schedules and flexibility and not tank your careers. Your advice is really not going to apply to anyone, so it's annoying!

Also, you keep trickling in more information...like now it turns out you had to log back on for hours at night and pay your part-time nanny a full-time salary. Ugh, ugh, ugh!

FWIW, my kids are school-age now and I am able to work 7 to 3 two days a week which I arranged because those two days my one kid has an activity she is very passionate about that I need to get her to. My DH is senior enough that he can put the kids onto the bus at 8:20 those two days, getting into the office a little later, and it's ok. That's the kind of reasonable flexibility some folks should look into/test out! But me not starting my day everyday until 11:15 and him needing to leave the office everyday at 4 to relieve the nanny??? we would tank out careers no doubt! (And our jobs are not even that intense or big on "facetime".)

It’s extremely common now for parents to have flexible schedules and paternity leave.

OTOH, it’s about .000001% of the population who are SAHM who are not busy with everything but raising their kids during the day.

What’s it like to be really bad at both math and basic research? Your lack of skills in both are on display here as is your privilege.

If you and everyone you know is a fed please understand that you are not representative of 98% of the US workforce. 1.9% of the us workforce works for the federal government.

According to the NYT, 80% of working adults are at in person jobs and 20% are remote or hybrid, with those categories being roughly even. Parents do not “commonly” have flexible jobs by this metric.

24% of parents working in the private sector have access to some paid parental leave. And many men who have leave available to them do not take all of it due to stigma. 75% of working fathers take a week off and 16% take no time off.

And .000001% of the US population is 346. You think 346 people are stay at home moms?

For the sake of humanity I hope your job has zero data analysis or critical thinking requirements. My five year old is more capable of higher level thinking.

You didn't even recognize that I used your insane statistic as a hyperbole. I literally repeated your inane statement in reverse. Please I hope your job does not require reading comprehension and logical reasoning skills.

But with teachers and construction workers and farmers and nurses and cops and the plethora of workers you probably don't even know in person, not everybody is 9-5 in an office with a commute needing $330K/year to survive. There is a whole world out there in the exburbs and rural areas.

Ahhhh! I get it now. I see what you are doing ... I've looked back and realize now that you have done it many times throughout this thread. When someone makes a broad-ish statement about WOHMs that doesn't fit your narrative, you are (in your mind, at least) "reversing" it and making it about SAHMs. But in the broadest (read: delusional) sense of "reverse", ha.

So, e.g., someone will say something like, "8 out of 10 WOHM don't have flexibility to stagger her hours" and you will write, "8 out of 10 SAHM don't have time to engage with their kids amidst all their chores." I get it now -- you are being flip, not factual. Cool.