Confused about all the gender bending

[Anonymous]

But since that never seemed to be a viable option- to just be between genders or float back and forth probably a lot of nonbinary people felt compelled to choose or felt committing to being trans was their only option. Living in such a binary culture can be really damaging.

I am a PP with a lesbian daughter who says she identifies as demigirl. Please understand that I love and support her. I am simply trying to understand where she is coming from. I am well aware that my feelings as an aging feminist who believes strongly that being a woman can mean anything from wearing an apron or working as a mechanic or fighter pilot impact how I understand this. I have had much of this discussion with my daughter - she says it is not so much kids jumping on the bandwagon or being trendy as having the vocabulary to articulate how they feel. But to me, how she describes her feelings as a demigirl (partially identifies with female gender assigned at birth) are a reaction to a narrow gender stereotype of what it means to be a girl. I felt the same way at her age. It sucks to suddenly feel vulnerable to violence, to be the subject of unwelcome attention, to have pressure to look and act a certain way. For the PP who commented that so much of this questioning is because girls are reacting to the bad parts of being female, I agree - and if that is the case, I don't understand why it is preferable to identify as non-binary rather than acting to make sure girls and women (and all people) are not subject to discrimination and harassment.

And yes, I do feel old and out of touch.

[Anonymous]

^^ And apologies, I actually did not mean to quote that PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think it’s weird at all for any particular 12 year old to know who they’re attracted to.

Me either. What I do think is weird, is when a child that has been cruising along as the gender assigned at birth with crushes and romances on the opposite sex, suddenly change and do the opposite.

Another thing, when you teach children that not being comfortable in your own body is a 'sign' that you are not your birth gender, it is going to confuse them when puberty hits. How many girls are comfortable with surging hormones, breasts, hair in new places, body odors, your first period, and everything else that comes with puberty? It is 100% normal and natural not to feel comfortable in your own skin at this time... it does not make you trans/pans/etc. It makes you a normal kid. God help you if you are an early bloomer and do not have a comrade in puberty to go through it with - it is a lonely, confusing time. This little vessel that has been your body for 10-14 years is all of a sudden betraying you.

I am sorry, maybe I am not woke enough to be a parent today or hang out on this board. But it makes me sad to see my child, who was so confident and secure in who she was, all of a sudden filled with self doubt and gender confused. She was the first girl in her school to start puberty and she hates her body now. I blame a lot of it on the schools that are going overboard in trying to make everyone feel included, our culture that has made it taboo for parents to guide their kids, and the Internet that is just full of stuff that is in many cases just not accurate.

Your body is not "betraying" you and that is never, ever a message that a child should hear. It is developing naturally, as is intended. They are growing up. This is what happens.

-- a pedicatrician

Oh FFS. Since you are a pediatrician, I would hope you have a good enough bedside manner to understand human speech and phrasing. Do you really not get what the PP was trying to say?

I actually do think that is exactly what PPs child thinks; it is very common at that age. I’m saying that PP as mother needs to correct that thinking.

PP here and yes, that is how my child feels. I have done everything I can think of to help correct that thinking but it is much easier said than done. I have talked to her pediatrician (who was much kinder to me than the pediatrician in this thread), read books and articles, talked to a child psychologist, even let her talk with one. I have affirmed her, shared with her what a beautifully complex thing the human body is and especially the female body.

My point though was not what I am doing right or wrong, it is that it is NORMAL for a child in puberty not to feel comfortable in his/her/their own skin. As long as the schools are culture are pushing the mindset that normal pubescent feelings are signs of being non-binary, we are confusing our children and making them feel as though they are not normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think it’s weird at all for any particular 12 year old to know who they’re attracted to.

Me either. What I do think is weird, is when a child that has been cruising along as the gender assigned at birth with crushes and romances on the opposite sex, suddenly change and do the opposite.

Another thing, when you teach children that not being comfortable in your own body is a 'sign' that you are not your birth gender, it is going to confuse them when puberty hits. How many girls are comfortable with surging hormones, breasts, hair in new places, body odors, your first period, and everything else that comes with puberty? It is 100% normal and natural not to feel comfortable in your own skin at this time... it does not make you trans/pans/etc. It makes you a normal kid. God help you if you are an early bloomer and do not have a comrade in puberty to go through it with - it is a lonely, confusing time. This little vessel that has been your body for 10-14 years is all of a sudden betraying you.

I am sorry, maybe I am not woke enough to be a parent today or hang out on this board. But it makes me sad to see my child, who was so confident and secure in who she was, all of a sudden filled with self doubt and gender confused. She was the first girl in her school to start puberty and she hates her body now. I blame a lot of it on the schools that are going overboard in trying to make everyone feel included, our culture that has made it taboo for parents to guide their kids, and the Internet that is just full of stuff that is in many cases just not accurate.

Your body is not "betraying" you and that is never, ever a message that a child should hear. It is developing naturally, as is intended. They are growing up. This is what happens.

-- a pedicatrician

You are trying to reason with somebody who thinks girls want a penis because they hate their boobs, hair and body odor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think it’s weird at all for any particular 12 year old to know who they’re attracted to.

Me either. What I do think is weird, is when a child that has been cruising along as the gender assigned at birth with crushes and romances on the opposite sex, suddenly change and do the opposite.

Another thing, when you teach children that not being comfortable in your own body is a 'sign' that you are not your birth gender, it is going to confuse them when puberty hits. How many girls are comfortable with surging hormones, breasts, hair in new places, body odors, your first period, and everything else that comes with puberty? It is 100% normal and natural not to feel comfortable in your own skin at this time... it does not make you trans/pans/etc. It makes you a normal kid. God help you if you are an early bloomer and do not have a comrade in puberty to go through it with - it is a lonely, confusing time. This little vessel that has been your body for 10-14 years is all of a sudden betraying you.

I am sorry, maybe I am not woke enough to be a parent today or hang out on this board. But it makes me sad to see my child, who was so confident and secure in who she was, all of a sudden filled with self doubt and gender confused. She was the first girl in her school to start puberty and she hates her body now. I blame a lot of it on the schools that are going overboard in trying to make everyone feel included, our culture that has made it taboo for parents to guide their kids, and the Internet that is just full of stuff that is in many cases just not accurate.

Your body is not "betraying" you and that is never, ever a message that a child should hear. It is developing naturally, as is intended. They are growing up. This is what happens.

-- a pedicatrician

Oh FFS. Since you are a pediatrician, I would hope you have a good enough bedside manner to understand human speech and phrasing. Do you really not get what the PP was trying to say?

I actually do think that is exactly what PPs child thinks; it is very common at that age. I’m saying that PP as mother needs to correct that thinking.

PP here and yes, that is how my child feels. I have done everything I can think of to help correct that thinking but it is much easier said than done. I have talked to her pediatrician (who was much kinder to me than the pediatrician in this thread), read books and articles, talked to a child psychologist, even let her talk with one. I have affirmed her, shared with her what a beautifully complex thing the human body is and especially the female body.

My point though was not what I am doing right or wrong, it is that it is NORMAL for a child in puberty not to feel comfortable in his/her/their own skin. As long as the schools are culture are pushing the mindset that normal pubescent feelings are signs of being non-binary, we are confusing our children and making them feel as though they are not normal.

PP here. Completely agree with you. What I hope that you can make your DD see is that she lacks perspective. This is also a natural effect of youth. Every single person on the planet goes through this to some degree, as they are growing up and coming into their own. It's the very definition of emotional puberty. But at her age, it feels very personal and like everyone else has it under control - she, alone, is suffering.

As they say, youth is wasted on the young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But since that never seemed to be a viable option- to just be between genders or float back and forth probably a lot of nonbinary people felt compelled to choose or felt committing to being trans was their only option. Living in such a binary culture can be really damaging.

I am a PP with a lesbian daughter who says she identifies as demigirl. Please understand that I love and support her. I am simply trying to understand where she is coming from. I am well aware that my feelings as an aging feminist who believes strongly that being a woman can mean anything from wearing an apron or working as a mechanic or fighter pilot impact how I understand this. I have had much of this discussion with my daughter - she says it is not so much kids jumping on the bandwagon or being trendy as having the vocabulary to articulate how they feel. But to me, how she describes her feelings as a demigirl (partially identifies with female gender assigned at birth) are a reaction to a narrow gender stereotype of what it means to be a girl. I felt the same way at her age. It sucks to suddenly feel vulnerable to violence, to be the subject of unwelcome attention, to have pressure to look and act a certain way. For the PP who commented that so much of this questioning is because girls are reacting to the bad parts of being female, I agree - and if that is the case, I don't understand why it is preferable to identify as non-binary rather than acting to make sure girls and women (and all people) are not subject to discrimination and harassment.

And yes, I do feel old and out of touch.

You are like “I have a dozen” and your daughter is saying “I have 12” and you want to know why she won’t say dozen like you.

You are saying the same thing with different language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer?

Just let her be and don't worry too much about it. She'll figure it out. Support her when she needs support. Don't stress if she changes course, in any direction. Listen to her when she talks.

That's it.

Disagree. She is a child and needs help and guidance. The last thing I would do is leave her alone to figure this out, under the influence of LGBTQ sites on the internet

I don't know what this even means. I said support her when she needs support. What does "help and guidance" mean? What does "under the influence of LGBTQ sites" mean?

I happen to be as straight as the day is long. No LGBTQ sites would sway me from my sexual preferences. It's how I am.

If my child is "under the influence" of other ideas about sexuality, I would figure that they are figuring themselves out and give them space to do so. I'm not talking porn or anything here because that's inappropriate for children but I definitely support them thinking for themselves and thinking differently then I might. If a child of mine ends up somewhere else on the spectrum of sexuality, I wouldn't worry about it. I actually don't even know what there is to worry about.

[Anonymous]

As a gay parent, I'm all for it.

I grew up when no one, including myself, was out in high school. The f-@-g word was still very much tossed around as an insult the way the r-word was tossed around without much thought.

It was exhausting. Just imagine if you spent every single day of your life playing pretend. I knew I liked girls the way I should have liked boys. I knew that was wrong in 99% of people's eyes. I knew that if people found out, they'd hate me and I'd probably lose my family because they were pretty religious. From the ages of 10-14, every single birthday wish was the same: please let me like boys like my friends do. I even prayed to God!

When I look back at yearbook photos or photos when I'm catching up with friends from back then, I don't have the good memories they do. I just have the memories of hiding and pretending and pain.

I'm so glad that most LGBTQ+ kids today won't have that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think it’s weird at all for any particular 12 year old to know who they’re attracted to.

Me either. What I do think is weird, is when a child that has been cruising along as the gender assigned at birth with crushes and romances on the opposite sex, suddenly change and do the opposite.

Another thing, when you teach children that not being comfortable in your own body is a 'sign' that you are not your birth gender, it is going to confuse them when puberty hits. How many girls are comfortable with surging hormones, breasts, hair in new places, body odors, your first period, and everything else that comes with puberty? It is 100% normal and natural not to feel comfortable in your own skin at this time... it does not make you trans/pans/etc. It makes you a normal kid. God help you if you are an early bloomer and do not have a comrade in puberty to go through it with - it is a lonely, confusing time. This little vessel that has been your body for 10-14 years is all of a sudden betraying you.

I am sorry, maybe I am not woke enough to be a parent today or hang out on this board. But it makes me sad to see my child, who was so confident and secure in who she was, all of a sudden filled with self doubt and gender confused. She was the first girl in her school to start puberty and she hates her body now. I blame a lot of it on the schools that are going overboard in trying to make everyone feel included, our culture that has made it taboo for parents to guide their kids, and the Internet that is just full of stuff that is in many cases just not accurate.

Your body is not "betraying" you and that is never, ever a message that a child should hear. It is developing naturally, as is intended. They are growing up. This is what happens.

-- a pedicatrician

Oh FFS. Since you are a pediatrician, I would hope you have a good enough bedside manner to understand human speech and phrasing. Do you really not get what the PP was trying to say?

I actually do think that is exactly what PPs child thinks; it is very common at that age. I’m saying that PP as mother needs to correct that thinking.

PP here and yes, that is how my child feels. I have done everything I can think of to help correct that thinking but it is much easier said than done. I have talked to her pediatrician (who was much kinder to me than the pediatrician in this thread), read books and articles, talked to a child psychologist, even let her talk with one. I have affirmed her, shared with her what a beautifully complex thing the human body is and especially the female body.

My point though was not what I am doing right or wrong, it is that it is NORMAL for a child in puberty not to feel comfortable in his/her/their own skin. As long as the schools are culture are pushing the mindset that normal pubescent feelings are signs of being non-binary, we are confusing our children and making them feel as though they are not normal.

You are the one that is confused. Nobody is pushing anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pan/Omni is about sexual orientation. This generation of kids is in a much safer space to express where on that scale they fall then we were. My 12 year old is a Lesbian and it is no phase. To say that 12 yr olds don't know what they are attracted to is just wrong. I knew well before 12 that I was attracted to males. Why would it be any different for someone attracted to their same gender or any gender?

As for the gendered expectations comments. Yes women have less gendered expectations but don't ignore that they are still very there. Have you read any thread on here about what makes a woman attractive or how to get a guy? And boys have that even worse. We still have a lot of work to do on this front as a society.

Just be open, accepting and listen.

+1. I wonder if people who think it's weird for 12 year olds to know who they're attracted to remember what their childhoods were like? Maybe they were just later developers. I knew I was attracted to women by fifth grade. These aren't unusual times to have developed an idea of who you're in to.

I don’t think it’s weird at all for any particular 12 year old to know who they’re attracted to. What I do think is weird is when a group of 6 friends from elementary school, who have all had crushes on boys and followed fairly standard gender norms as far as clothing, hit puberty and seemingly overnight 5 out of 6 of them identify as LGBTQ+ (using labels they saw on Tik Tok or something and have to Google themselves to make sure they know what they mean.) Seriously, if you haven’t spent time around adolescent girls lately, I’m not sure you understand what’s happening on a large scale.

This! The same situation is happening in my DD teen group. Statistically, it’s impossible that they are all LGBTQ

That isn't how statistics work. I know a middle school class of 20 from the 90s that produced two trans men. That's not very likely and yet it happened, because improbable things can still happen.

But if every middle school in the D.C. area has a group of 7-10 girls who disagree with their XX chromosomes, then that's statistically improbable!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a trans female child here.

Having seen thread titles like this in the past, I steeled myself before reading because I’m often so disheartened by the comments/replies.

I have to say, I am near tears seeing all the supportive “live and let live” comments here, both with respect to gender and sexuality. Thank you, DCUM peeps.

As a parent of two cis-gender children, I spend a lot of time trying to debunk misinformation on these types of threads because I don’t think it should be left to families of trans kids to bear this burden. But even I get exhausted/depressed by it; I can only imagine what seeing the ignorance and hate on some of these threads must mean for you. I’m so sorry about that but am glad that this thread is proving more thoughtful. Wishing you and your child all the best.

+2

+3

Thank you, PPs!!

[Anonymous]

My experience is that parents are happy to pay lip service to tolerance of gays, up until the point that their own children might actually turn out to be something other than cisgender---at that point their child must have been corrupted or converted.

Your own words betray this: you think that discussions of gender fluidity somehow celebrate victimhood and weakness and yet also gives children power over teachers and others. Letting young people try to figure out who they are is literally the definition of resilience and self-determination.

My child is gay, and I love her and accept her. I don't think anyone "corrupted or converted" her. I have gay family members and know that sexual orientation is biological. When she came out to me, I was not at all surprised.

I am trying to figure out gender identity, though. I understand gender dysphoria and feeling like you were born in the wrong body, but the rest of the gender spectrum is new to me (and to many of us). I don't think there is harm in asking questions. Nor do I think it is harmful to try to figure out whether a child is really gender fluid or just feeling uncomfortable in her body because of puberty. Contrary to what a PP said, I do think there is a big difference between reacting to societal expectations for girls by becoming a feminist versus by declaring that you are not a girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My experience is that parents are happy to pay lip service to tolerance of gays, up until the point that their own children might actually turn out to be something other than cisgender---at that point their child must have been corrupted or converted.

Your own words betray this: you think that discussions of gender fluidity somehow celebrate victimhood and weakness and yet also gives children power over teachers and others. Letting young people try to figure out who they are is literally the definition of resilience and self-determination.

My child is gay, and I love her and accept her. I don't think anyone "corrupted or converted" her. I have gay family members and know that sexual orientation is biological. When she came out to me, I was not at all surprised.

I am trying to figure out gender identity, though. I understand gender dysphoria and feeling like you were born in the wrong body, but the rest of the gender spectrum is new to me (and to many of us). I don't think there is harm in asking questions. Nor do I think it is harmful to try to figure out whether a child is really gender fluid or just feeling uncomfortable in her body because of puberty. Contrary to what a PP said, I do think there is a big difference between reacting to societal expectations for girls by becoming a feminist versus by declaring that you are not a girl.

I am failing to see the harm either way (barring hormonal therapy, etc). What is the difference between a teenager saying "I am nonbinary and will have sex with both men and women" and a teenager saying "I am a vegan and will never eat meat again"? Teenagers are passionate and dramatic and trying out all kinds of identities and values; yes, even if they don't really believe it.

I'd be more concerned if my teen got some stupid tattoo, which really is an experiment that changes you for life. But that seems to be perfectly cool for many parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Our generation worked so hard to expand the notion of what it means to be female--you can be strong, ambitious, loud, athletic, aggressive, whatever--and now it seems like kids are putting "female" in this small, weak box and identifying anything outside that stereotype as something other.”

OP here. This! It makes me so sad. Womanhood is so powerful, and I know I have set an empowering example. That is partly why I am confused.

Count this "tomboy" in too. What happened to strong women? I can't wrap my head around this disallowing diversity of what it means to be female. Or male for that matter. Why can't girls like cars and dinosaurs and be sports fanatics and why can't boys love baking and fashion without being told they are misgendered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Our generation worked so hard to expand the notion of what it means to be female--you can be strong, ambitious, loud, athletic, aggressive, whatever--and now it seems like kids are putting "female" in this small, weak box and identifying anything outside that stereotype as something other.”

OP here. This! It makes me so sad. Womanhood is so powerful, and I know I have set an empowering example. That is partly why I am confused.

Count this "tomboy" in too. What happened to strong women? I can't wrap my head around this disallowing diversity of what it means to be female. Or male for that matter. Why can't girls like cars and dinosaurs and be sports fanatics and why can't boys love baking and fashion without being told they are misgendered.

Stop being so sensitive. This isn't about you. Why do you feel threatened? You want to allow girls to pursue any interest they want, as long as they continue to allow you to label them as girls? Think about it.